Possible Solution to the Loudness wars?

[Bigg_T]

I know this subject has been beat to death but here is my solution:

Start a mastering funded research comity to develop an amplifier component that can auto detect overall rms loudness that in turn governs a preamp level accordingly. (ie if the incoming signal has -5 rms then it turns the pre level way down before it hits the main amp volume stage and visa versa)

That way all CD's will have an over all equal apparent loudness.


Call the component "Pure Sound Level" (PSL) , Get the amp companies excited about it so it can be a new selling feature. Auto level control.

Just a thought,,

we all know stickers and trying to talk sense to clients doesn't work for the most part.


Bigg_T

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Bigg_T

I know this subject has been beat to death but here is my solution:

Start a mastering funded research comity to develop an amplifier component that can auto detect overall rms loudness that in turn governs a preamp level accordingly. (ie if the incoming signal has -5 rms then it turns the pre level way down before it hits the main amp volume stage and visa versa)

That way all CD's will have an over all equal apparent loudness.


Call the component "Pure Sound Level" (PSL) , Get the amp companies excited about it so it can be a new selling feature. Auto level control.

Just a thought,,

we all know stickers and trying to talk sense to clients doesn't work for the most part.


Bigg_T

Itunes and an addon called "replay gain" have this function built in. Use this as your laboratory. If the consumer community can't get that working, then don't get your hopes up.

BK

[heathen]

Also many manufacturers refuse to adopt standards between them that makes this all possible, one company will say "mine is better", then another will say the same. So you end up with several different versions of the same thing.Remember dvd + or -


Would be good if there was one standard built into all new digital playback devices. I'm all for it. Though I think the artists should stop being so competitive with loudness. I've seriously never heard anyone say, "oh that cd sux cause it's not loud enough", providing it's a reasonable master. It's usually the artist thinking that. Loud masters don't actually bother me too much unless they are over-maximised, it's clipping I despise. The louder you turn it up the worse it sounds.

No this is'nt another clipping vs non-clipping post, this is my personal preference.

[rufus13]

Originally Posted by Bigg_T

Start a mastering funded research comity to develop an amplifier component that can auto detect overall rms loudness that in turn governs a preamp level accordingly.
-snip-
That way all CD's will have an over all equal apparent loudness.
Bigg_T

The problem with this is that tracks with the exact same "rms level" can be apparently many dB different in perceived loudness. The solution is mastering to a standard like K-system, and educating the listening public about how good reproduced music can sound in a quiet/dedicated space.

Companies with massive resources to spend on this issue, like Dolby or Microsoft, have come up with automated listening tools that don't equal an untrained normal human ear, let alone a recognized mastering engineer.

One of the problems with music/film/video/entertaiment biz is that "style-guys" (MBA's, Sales, Accounting) are in charge of the biggest organizations. They destroy what they touch, with taste and quality first. Quarterly profits are almost guaranteed as the snake devours its' tail, then entrails. As the business begins to sink, they leave the ship with big pay packages. Look at what the celebrated Carli did to HP.

kk.

DVD+R and DVD-R are not the same thing. +R is significantly better in error correction.

[upscaps]

all this may work if u never had to play songs in clubs, bars, & arenas anymore

[Mr. Man]

IMO I find that loud material easily keeps its loud quality without a lot more compression (or limiting added).
So the needles aren't buried to the right from start to finish of the song, big deal! The dynamics of the song make it sound more musical.
I usually set for 2-3dB of compression (if it needs it) then the limiter to grab maybe a dozen transients through the song.
iPod users can crank another 2dB and if it goes to the radio it will be heavily limited again. I don't see the need to compress a sine wave once let alone twice.

People are always looking for something new and different in music to grab their attention, and a wall of dB's microns away from the clipping point seems old and at this point cliche. I have a feeling dynamic music is going to make a comeback when people realize that.