What would be a good recording software for songwriting?

[AlexLakis]

Just for songwriting, you don't need Pro Tools. Unless you'd like to have someone else mix your stuff after you're done, then using Pro Tools might speed along that process.

Cubase would be fine. Also, check out Ableton Live!, a lot of artists like the workflow and layout, especially if you use loops as a writing tool.

[MikeMitchell]

I've used cubase and ptle for many years and think they are both excellent programs. I do alot of midi and find cubase to be every so slightly superior than ptle at handling midi. Also alot more free VST's than RTAS plugs out there. The VST to RTAS wrapper resolves this issue to a certain extent. Bussing and routing seemed abit more logical and like a console in ptle to me. You can't go wrong either way, whatever works best for you.
One thing to consider is that ptle requires hardware to run, so no mixing or messing around unless you plan on carrying around your mbox. I've never heard of or met anyone running cubase on a mac, so if your dead set on mac you might want to see how compatable the two are.
Don't stress too much about this decision, in all honestly its one of the least important decisions youll make.
-Mike

[Corvette]

That's the reson I haven't checked PT of my list, eventually I'm going to record a CD so I was wondering if ptle would save me time and money if I could do some of the work at home.
Also, Cubase 4 has Cross Platform Compatibility and Universal MAC Binary (MacIntel. OS X) would that make it run better on a mac than older cubase versions?

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Corvette

That's the reson I haven't checked PT of my list, eventually I'm going to record a CD so I was wondering if ptle would save me time and money if I could do some of the work at home.

Don't mean to derail you here, but you might consider skimping on your home recording rig and saving some money to buy studio time in the best studio in your area with the best engineer/producer you can find. You owe it to yourself as a songwriter. Just something to consider...

If you want to do the recording and have someone else mix it, recording in Pro Tools isn't that big a deal. If the engineer uses PT, they can import the files manually without much trouble. It's nice, but not entirely necessary.

[Corvette]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Don't mean to derail you here, but you might consider skimping on your home recording rig and saving some money to buy studio time in the best studio in your area with the best engineer/producer you can find. You owe it to yourself as a songwriter. Just something to consider...

If you want to do the recording and have someone else mix it, recording in Pro Tools isn't that big a deal. If the engineer uses PT, they can import the files manually without much trouble. It's nice, but not entirely necessary.

That's good advice, but I'm just looking for a better way to store songs and it's nice to just record as I'm writing a song instead of racing to write it down on paper. I'm not gonna spend much money on a home studio and as for that computer I need a new one anyway.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Corvette

That's good advice, but I'm just looking for a better way to store songs and it's nice to just record as I'm writing a song instead of racing to write it down on paper. I'm not gonna spend much money on a home studio and as for that computer I need a new one anyway.

Cool deal. What I did was I bought a digital mini-recorder with USB connectivity. That way, I can carry it in my pocket and bust it out whenever/wherever for both lyrics or music (even when I'm driving or at work,) and at the end of the day, I can just dump it to my computer for easy archiving. It records in stereo and sounds pretty darn good for what it is! I can even plug in a mic if I want to, and when I'm on vacation, it double as my alarm clock!

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1153

Speaking of computers, have you researched what sound card/device you'd like to use with your eventual software of choice? Might be something to think about alongside your software choice...

[The Spark]

I have Pro Tools and Mackie's Tracktion. I love Pro Tools, but for me personally I like Tracktion for song writing. It is simple to learn and has enough options for songwriting. There is a free demo on Mackie's site, check it out!

[Corvette]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Cool deal. What I did was I bought a digital mini-recorder with USB connectivity. That way, I can carry it in my pocket and bust it out whenever/wherever for both lyrics or music (even when I'm driving or at work,) and at the end of the day, I can just dump it to my computer for easy archiving. It records in stereo and sounds pretty darn good for what it is! I can even plug in a mic if I want to, and when I'm on vacation, it double as my alarm clock!

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...p?product=1153

Speaking of computers, have you researched what sound card/device you'd like to use with your eventual software of choice? Might be something to think about alongside your software choice...

Wow that little thing can hold a lot. As for a card/device I was looking at the firebox or INSPIRE 1394.

[Corvette]

I haven't checked out the Tracktion, but I will now, thanks.

[AlexLakis]

I haven't used the Firebox, but I do own the Firepod, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. The pres are decent, and the drivers are SOLID (at least on PC, XP Pro SP2.) I used my Firepod with Nuendo, and I never had any problems: Very stable and reliable. And this was on an old Toshiba Satellite A70, not optimized for pro-audio.

[Corvette]

That's awsome. I've heard that firepod is reliable, but firebox gets complaints sometimes. I'll just test it before I buy it. I think that I might need to buy reason to write for different parts of songs or should I do that in the studio? I'm just afraid of taking a long time.

[AlexLakis]

Depends on if you hire a producer or not. Or session musicians. You don't have to do it all yourself, you know.

I got into recording originally because I wanted to record my own music and have full control of it. After a few years of recording, I realized how bad an idea that was. Now, after 6 years or so, I record as my primary source of income and provide for my wife and son. When I'm ready to record my own stuff (whenever I get around to it again!!!!!!) I'll do it in someone else's studio with someone else engineering.

Anyways, back on topic, if you want to use synthesized sounds/sequencing in your songwriting process, picking up a copy of Reason wouldn't be a bad idea. Alternatively, you could research VSTis to use in your host program of choice. Of course, you could always go the hardware route, get a keyboard, MPC, Motif, whatever. If you hire a producer and/or session players, you won't have to worry about that stuff. It's all up to how you want to do it. Coming in with backup tracks to a studio would definately save you some time and money, and would give you more control of your final product. Sometimes having someone else's opinion (producer) is a good idea, tho. And would you rather have a Reason drumkit backing you up or Josh Freese?

What kind of music do you write?

[Corvette]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Depends on if you hire a producer or not. Or session musicians. You don't have to do it all yourself, you know.

I got into recording originally because I wanted to record my own music and have full control of it. After a few years of recording, I realized how bad an idea that was. Now, after 6 years or so, I record as my primary source of income and provide for my wife and son. When I'm ready to record my own stuff (whenever I get around to it again!!!!!!) I'll do it in someone else's studio with someone else engineering.

Anyways, back on topic, if you want to use synthesized sounds/sequencing in your songwriting process, picking up a copy of Reason wouldn't be a bad idea. Alternatively, you could research VSTis to use in your host program of choice. Of course, you could always go the hardware route, get a keyboard, MPC, Motif, whatever. If you hire a producer and/or session players, you won't have to worry about that stuff. It's all up to how you want to do it. Coming in with backup tracks to a studio would definately save you some time and money, and would give you more control of your final product. Sometimes having someone else's opinion (producer) is a good idea, tho. And would you rather have a Reason drumkit backing you up or Josh Freese?

What kind of music do you write?

I am a little obessed with writing everything myself. I play guitar so I've writen mostly rock. Yes, I would rather have a real musician come in and play, lol. I've been asking people how much it would cost to record an album, but no one can really give me an answer.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Corvette

I am a little obessed with writing everything myself. I play guitar so I've writen mostly rock. Yes, I would rather have a real musician come in and play, lol. I've been asking people how much it would cost to record an album, but no one can really give me an answer.

With session players, in a good room with a great engineer, for a full length album, I wouldn't look to spend less than $10,000. That's around the going rate for a project like yours around these parts. It could easily go a couple dozen grand higher too, depending...

Consider writing other parts for your songs, but realize that you are not a bassist/drummer, and therefore, you probably don't think like a bassist/drummer. Hiring session players can take your songwriting to the next level in this respect. You can lay down the foundation and let them run with it. If you don't like it, then just tell them it's not working and have them play your parts verbatim. Just something to think about. Sorry if I'm imposing with these ideas, but it's my first day off in about a month, and my friend left me with a bottle of Kutskova.

[Corvette]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

With session players, in a good room with a great engineer, for a full length album, I wouldn't look to spend less than $10,000. That's around the going rate for a project like yours around these parts. It could easily go a couple dozen grand higher too, depending...

Consider writing other parts for your songs, but realize that you are not a bassist/drummer, and therefore, you probably don't think like a bassist/drummer. Hiring session players can take your songwriting to the next level in this respect. You can lay down the foundation and let them run with it. If you don't like it, then just tell them it's not working and have them play your parts verbatim. Just something to think about. Sorry if I'm imposing with these ideas, but it's my first day off in about a month, and my friend left me with a bottle of Kutskova.

lol, thank you. $10,000 wow I better get working. I'm a college student lol college students never have money.

[Todd24]

Pretty much any DAW will workfor getting ideas down.

Tracktion is the fastest to learn. It is really intuitive.

Reaper is the best deal out there, and the forum is really willing to answer questions. It is out developing anything else.

PT, Cubase, etc, just seems like a huge waste of money IMHO. They dont really do anything the others cant. They all have differant work flows.

[manning1]

corvette...
if you dont know about it......for generating song ideas musicians in their thousands use band in a box from pgmusic.com.
(mac or pc)...its had several tech awards if you check the site.
it might suit you..it might not. just try the demo.
it will also auto generate melody and solo ideas also which many find usefull.
it has a huge range of features for songwriters i dont have time to explain..would take pages.

for track laying ...look at my sig.... both superb packages imho.....no dongles....
if you doubt me.....user comments/forums/demos ...for reaper.....cockos.com,
and powertracks...pg again. but i would recommend a pc to run these packages.
(rpr currently is pc only.)
i understand that under mac boot camp you should be able to run powertracks....
and the pc version of biab.....but i would check with pg on this....to confirm.

and there IS a mac version for biab....but the features tend to lag the pc version i understand. i understand a reaper version on mac is undergoing some development from what i see on the forum.

[foldback]

GARAGEBAND

I write one new song per week and always rough it out in Garageband. This is the software that comes on every new Mac and you can add it to existing Macs for under $80.

It is easy and fast to use. I start with a drum loop or sometimes just a click track, build out the arrangement and then rough some parts in around it. Once the song is fairly fleshed out, I bounce a few tracks out and bring them into Protools for finishing.

Garageband has virtual instruments, loop technology and good sounding effects.

[Corvette]

I'm going to check out everything that was suggested. I problably wont go with PT or Cubase because no matter what I do it all comes out to $1,100 and I'm looking for something a little cheaper. Thank you VERY much for all the help.

[cortisol]

For songwriting it all depends on how you approach your writing.

If you like to flow and just play guitar then I would suggest just a simple program that lets you record.

If you want quantized pop perfection then that might be another can of worms...

Pro Tools LE isn't the same as Pro Tools HD in that the converters aren't as good and the plug ins that have been created to be the best sounding for PT are coded for the DSP chip in the HD rigs. So you can edit a bit at home but for the super quality and mix balance desicions you need to go to the pro studio.

I think ableton live is great for sketching out working arrangements and trying loops and grooves under your audio to make your recordings vibe.

The thing about songwriting is that it should allow you to generate ideas quite freely, quickly and to flow the way you work and write.

IMO non of the DAW programs have come up with a design to get the best out of songwriters. They are still based on multi track recording of audio or midi tweaking!

Learning to tweak and record is a whole can of worms that takes away from concentrating on the song. So people concentrate on producing up and covering up bad songs with production and distracting sounds. If you want to write great songs and have great production then I would suggest going into partnership with a music programmer/recordist.

I think that you shouldn't get a Mac and then think about what software you want to use. Pick the software first.

Remember Apple forced Logic users to either by a Mac or abandon the programs. I think their ethic suck and their support of windows on the machine may or may not continue! So crossover programs running on windows might not be possible in the future depending on how they want their business to go.

Nice computers though... very pretty (and expensive) but a computer is just a tool, a calculator!

Good luck with your songwriting and your goal of writing an album!

The combination of a laptop and emu 1616m would be killer with nice converters and free software such as sonar le and cubase le etc with the card.

Peace,
cortisol

[uncle duncan]

Many pro songwriters use a program called Masterwriter. It has audio recording via the built-in mic on the mac, or via line inputs if you want to use preamps or a mixer. It has a bunch of drum loops in different styles. And it has windows for a rhyming dictionary, a phrase database, a thesauras, as well as a bunch of list stuff, such as car names, place names, bar names, bar drink names, pop culture icons, you name it. But the recording is not multitrack. It's strictly useful for capturing song ideas. (And song re-writes - one of the little known secrets to coming up with a great song.) They also have a deal where you can send your song ideas in to their database for copywright protection, and it's free the first year, and something like $30 a year after that.
As far as a recording DAW goes. I'm partial to Motu Digital Performer. If you use one of their hardware interfaces, you've got a total system by motu, which means tech support can't blame a problem on the other guy, because there is no other guy. Not that you'd ever need tech support. Ever since osx, motu stuff just works. I haven't had a tech support issue in years.
It is possible to save a Digital Performer file in a format that PT can read, but most PT users don't utilize this function, because the convertor program is an add-on option to PT and costs $500. This is one reason I won't support digidesign (the makers of PT.) They keep their file protocol a secret, and they make the convertor program prohibitively expensive, and then they charge 4 times what a comparable native DAW would cost. If this isn't greed, I don't know what is.
But I digress. If you want to mix a project in PT, and the PT studio is too cheap to pay $500 for the convertor program, you can save your Digital Performer (or Cubase, or whatever) files as generic wav files, all starting from zero, and the PT guy just imports them and mixes your project. No problem.

[foldback]

Originally Posted by Corvette

I'm going to check out everything that was suggested. I problably wont go with PT or Cubase because no matter what I do it all comes out to $1,100 and I'm looking for something a little cheaper. Thank you VERY much for all the help.

Scarf up a used 002R off ebay for around $800. You'll be learning on the most bashed software on Gearslutz :-)

or

pickup a new Mac Mini for $599 suggested list.... it comes with Garageband free.

[drumkideric]

I would just save some money and use garage band on your mac. You can do some cool things with that program.

[untitledtopher]

agreed garageband should be all you need and it will come with your new mac, if you want to try something else, ableton live gets great marks in my book, i'm a singersongwriter(acoustic as well as electronic) and live just makes my life easier

[digibird]

Originally Posted by cortisol

The combination of a laptop and emu 1616m would be killer with nice converters and free software such as sonar le and cubase le etc with the card.

Peace,
cortisol

I think the above is very good advice. EMU/Cubase rocks.

[Corvette]

I'm glad to hear Garageband is good. Thank you. Does Cubase le work better with the emu cuz when I was looking at fireboxes it got bad reviews? I'm thinking that Cubase le might just have problems with mac computers. I might actually have to stay with my pc for a little while longer. That's ok. I'll make this piece of crap work some way or another.

[microstudio]

Originally Posted by Corvette

I'm glad to hear Garageband is good. Thank you. Does Cubase le work better with the emu cuz when I was looking at fireboxes it got bad reviews? I'm thinking that Cubase le might just have problems with mac computers. I might actually have to stay with my pc for a little while longer. That's ok. I'll make this piece of crap work some way or another.

You might want to look into SAWStudio Basic it will on on a low end PC and be fast as lighting and NOTHING out there sounds as good. Basic is $300

You can also run it on a Mac Power book in daul boot to XP.

I don't know if you need midi or not and if so the MidiWorkShop ad on is $300.

Check it out... download the demo and record a guitar track and listen... it will blow you away. Ooo the whole program is about 3.8 mbs big so i hope you have room on your harddrive...

check it out here. plus you can find out more about it from link in my sig.

[popmann]

Do you want to use MIDI/synths/sampling in your "songwriting"? that's the biggest question, IMO.

If so...LogicPro KILLS out of the box. If you're just doing mainly audio...Logic Express (or whatever they call it now is cool). Garageband will work...although, that's gonna be a really rough demo. I think of it as the equivalent of an old 4track+sequencing keyboard like I used 15 years ago at home.

One of my bandmates does her demo recordings in Garageband. Ehh...it gets the job done and she's no computer guru...so, maybe that says a lot. I would think the tempo matching and stretching and such of Logic would be helpful in building rough arrangements.

[pace]

I used masterwriter as a demo for 30 days and really liked it. great for writing lyrics and doing basic recording