Thomann Ribbon mic ROCKS

[drycounty]

Sorry I may have posted this question in another forum -- does Thomann.de ship to the USA? Has anyone successfully ordered from them, stateside?

[Finnish]

I'm going to buy a pair of these, either t.bone RB500 or RN700.

My main uses are vocals, acoustic guitars, electric guitars (clean signals, no heavy sounds) and possibly OH's or room mics for drums.

I'll get a DIY mic preamp soon that I'll use with these, it's based on Calrec 1061.

So, which one is better for the purpose?

[GravityRobert]

xlr perhaps you need to retighten your ribbon?

[seb37000]

Originally Posted by Finnish

I'm going to buy a pair of these, either t.bone RB500 or RN700.

My main uses are vocals, acoustic guitars, electric guitars (clean signals, no heavy sounds) and possibly OH's or room mics for drums.

I'll get a DIY mic preamp soon that I'll use with these, it's based on Calrec 1061.

So, which one is better for the purpose?

After comparing different ribon mics i would not use any t-bone mic on "cleanish" sounds. dirty room mic is good if thats what your looking for.

[Finnish]

Originally Posted by seb37000

After comparing different ribon mics i would not use any t-bone mic on "cleanish" sounds. dirty room mic is good if thats what your looking for.

Hmmm, darn. Well, I'm not looking for pristine, sterile solution in these mics.

If someone is using these in vocs/ac gt/el gt, please chime in.

[HOTC]

hey i agree these are good mics...not the cleanest but use as a room mic on drums and its nice..open it up and move the meesh..it brings the sound more out but its more prone to ribbon damage

[recall]

I have been using one for the last year or so. Great at adding thickness to a drum kit, I like it behind the drummer's right shoulder. One thing it does exhibit is some strange sibilant 12k -ish thing. SO you have to be slightly careful of that and mess with positioning until its acceptable. It definitely has vibe though.

It was really nice on viola and clarinet the other day.

[Ludwig]

Used the T.Bone RM700 today on saxophone. It beat a Brauner, SM7b, MD441 and a 414.

Quality mic for this purpose. Happy to post all samples if anyone is interested.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by Ludwig

Used the T.Bone RM700 today on saxophone. It beat a Brauner, SM7b, MD441 and a 414.

This would be interesting to hear, please do post if its convenient for you.

[megl]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

This would be interesting to hear, please do post if its convenient for you.

Yeah - please post some clips. Do you have clips of the different mics you tried?

/megl

[joni0001984]

Originally Posted by Blacky

HI!
Yes,yes be careful with Phantom Power on ribbon mics! You can damge the ribbon!
I have the R1 active ribbon mic and for 1week ago i recorded a heavy guitar with them.
For my R1 you don't need a extremly closeness to th speaker, so the best for this track was 50inch far away from the speaker.
If you have a passive ribbon (normally) you can or must be closer, but take attention! Don't blow in the mic!! Take always,always a pop filter for vocals!
Hope that helps
Robert

I must ask you since I want to try to duplicate an active ribbon mic by using mostly a passive design and then making it active somehow with the Lundahl LL1927A. How would you go about?

//Joni, Sweden

[Matti]

Joni, no!
Since my schooldays passive can´t be active ;-)

Matti

[lerone]

The RM500 is very good...but...superlux r102 is much better all round. Active, better noise floor, more open (even after mesh / cinemag mod), even fig8 (could be good or bad i guess, but m/s is a bonus for sure!), still beefy, warm and fat, generally more detailed. £99 a piece, got 2 they were that good. Use over some v nice ldc / valves /passive ribbons for overheads alot. Great for so much stuff. Amazing value workhorse mics.thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[Matti]

How did you get them to fig.8 ??

Matti

[GuitarRuss]

Originally Posted by MATTI

How did you get them to fig.8 ??

Matti

Figure 8 means that they capture both front and back but cancel out left and right side. Main uses:

Noise cancelation - As a room mic for drums, you can point it facing the drum set and have the guitar and bass cabinets beside it. If you don't have an amp room, this is the an option for keeping the bleed out of the drum room mic. It can also be done on a singer/guitarist so that the vocal mic cancels out much of the guitar and vice-versa.

M/S and Blumlein - There's lots of info on how to do these here at gearslutz. Use the search function. You'll need two mics, a figure eight and a non figure 8 mic.

[Matti]

I was joking as he was saying the superflux is even fig.8

Matti

[leary]

...2 t.bones rb 100 in blumlein 6 feet above the kit facing facing towards the snare, no eq, no compression.

i am not a drummer, just did a quick test.

[lerone]

Originally Posted by MATTI

I was joking as he was saying the superflux is even fig.8

Matti

What?

[Matti]

Ditto

Matti

[Krank]

Please allow me to bump this rather than start a separate thread.

I was gonna get a Fathead, but with these Thomann re-branded ribbon mics available here in Europe it would be the better deal (I hope?).

My questions:

1) Updated opinions? Most posts about them are from 2-3 years ago. Those who used them then, are they still working well?

2) Which one (RB100, RB500, RM700) would be better suited on a guitar cab as a companion to a 57?

[Krank]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

My answer to your questions is based on the fact you're in Europe, Thomann is accessible to you and has a good return / replace policy. Because...

...any of the T. Bone mics could arrive at your door with a sagging ribbon and would need to be replaced. It would be a simple matter to point out this defect to Thomann and get a replacement quickly.

Cascade Fathead mics are inspected for proper ribbon tension prior to shipment, so that's a plus.

But to your question re the three T. Bone mics - my favorite is the RM700 because it has a more open headbasket than the RM100 and a physically less resonant headbasket than the RM500. Plus, it is basically the same mic as the stock Fathead which everyone raves about and like to use on guitar cabs because of its "peak-before-cut" mid to high end response.

Michael, thanks for chiming in; you're one of the authorities on this very subject. I'll get the RM700 then.

I realise it's a gamble, what with sagging ribbons and other QC issues. My reasoning is like you said; if I can return it easily, no sweat. And the Fathead is currently $219 new (it's one of those things I'd be wary of buying used), so a good deal more expensive once it gets here compared to the €99 for the t.bones at Thomann. Btw., they sure pick some really un-classy, pseudo-americano names for their re-branded discount stuff; how about 'Harvey Benton'?

I'd like to install a Lundahl trafo and do the other mods later.

[dkelley]

and a quick response here about thomann availability in north america or similar.

I don't see any reason for them to be purchased here when the same mics can be purchased here that are just rebadged under a different company name. There are several examples of great chinese ribbon mics here, I use apex 205s but there are many that are identical and there are models that are basically the same as the european ones you're talking about and will sound the same thanks to having the same motor assembly, electronics and basic manufacturer as the european-released chinese ribbon mics.

If I'm in any way wrong or misleading etc then I apologize and will let Mr. Joly correct me. I'm not an expert, but I have a fairly good concept of chinese mic manufacturing and distribution as an experienced end-user and also speaking as someone who takes apart everything he buys.

However I find a great reference to be what Mr. Joly linked to in is second to last post above here. Very educational and I think every prospective purchaser needs to read it.

cheers,
Don

[S.F.Sorrow]

Hmm... I find it strange that people like the RB100 (RSM-3). Mine is practically useless. I recorded an acoustic guitar and there were so many ugly resonances that I had to drag the eq all the way down at least 6-7 places. And then the sound was basically useless except as an effect.

I have no ribbon sag on mine so that's not the problem. It's not the room either. Sounds like some kind of mechanic resonance from inside the mic. Wouldn't this kind of problem typically affect all the RB100's?

Does anyone know an easy fix for this? Or is anyone modding them in Europe? Sending it to Oktavamod in the US just doesn't seem worth it with the shipping costs. Or does it get THAT much better?

[Michael_Joly]

Wow, that sounds pretty unusual for that mic. Maybe we can figure out what's going on.

Let's find out if the ribbon tension is close to correct - set up the mic to make a recording, then gently say "puh...puh...puh" in front of it - close enough to excite the ribbon. Make a recording of this. Then analyze the fundamental frequency of the ribbon oscillation using whatever software you have handy that can do this.

Another way to excite the ribbon is to repeatedly tap the body of the mic with your finger - the ribbon will oscillate at its resonant frequency. That mic should have a resonant frequency around 40Hz. If you don't have analysis software post a short clip or send it to me and I'll analyze it. If the ribbon is way too tight it will create a series of resonances from the upper bass into the lower midrange.

Also do a visual inspection to make sure the ribbon is not dragging on one of the magnets. Hold the mic up to a strong light or window - you should see light between the edges of the ribbon and the magnets.

[S.F.Sorrow]

That is without doubt the best and most helpful answer I've EVER received in a forum like this.

I'm leaving town with my band today but I will follow your advise as soon as I get back.

The worst resonances were not upper bass/lowermidrange if I remember correctly. They were in a higher frequency area. Somewhere in the higher mids I think. Sounded like a combination of someone banging a hammer on metal and piercing whistling sound (for a better lack of words...).

And oh yeah, I loved the Oktavamod 012's. Last week I recorded the sweetest acoustic guitar I've ever done with them. Surpisingly I've also found myself using them often on guitar amp cabinets for certain sounds. Absolutely magnificent.

But that's a topic for another thread...


Thanks!

[dkr]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

This would be interesting to hear, please do post if its convenient for you.

I am not Ludwig, but here is example with Brauner VM1 and t.bone RB100 on acoustic guitar. Brauner was placed in front of guitar, distance approx 20cm pointing between soundhole and neck-body joint and is panned hard to left. The RB100 was placed above guitar near players right ear and is panned to the right.

Recording was done with Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 using the Millennia HV-3D preamp emulation for both mics.

[Michael_Joly]

Originally Posted by S.F.Sorrow

...The worst resonances were not upper bass/lowermidrange if I remember correctly. They were in a higher frequency area. Somewhere in the higher mids I think. Sounded like a combination of someone banging a hammer on metal and piercing whistling sound (for a better lack of words...

Thanks for the kind words. The note above sounds like the ribbon dragging on one of the magnets. Do the visual inspection when you have a chance.

[pjk]

Ive got a pair of rb500s and use them on overheads - smooth as hell and great for rock music - especially retro, and 4 x 12 guitar cabs - more bottom end than you'll ever need - you do have to hi pass some out and bring up the His but they are great. Very good value. Didnt realise the 180 phase flip - how would i check for that - is that one half a phase ? hence the need for the phase cabling ? cos i did notice my overheads were slightly out despite correct positioning and they dont respond any better by flipping the phase in daw or on pres.

cheers

[Chrislpp]

since the Rb500 and RM700 are the exact same price right now and frequency response

What are the pros/cons of each if anyone knows?

[Jens Luithle]

Originally Posted by pjk

(...) Didnt realise the 180 phase flip - how would i check for that - is that one half a phase ? hence the need for the phase cabling ? cos i did notice my overheads were slightly out despite correct positioning and they dont respond any better by flipping the phase in daw or on pres.

cheers

To check the phase flip just put in front of a kickdrum, facing it with it's front, then record and look at the waveform. The initial wave should be going up.
If you wanna be 100% sure take annother, "known good" mic (one you know is phase correct) and place both side by side, record and compare the waveforms.

If your RB has that phase flip you can either flip the phase everytime needed or (what I would do) remove the XLR plug housing, remove the cables from pins 2 and 3 and resolder them the other way round.
If the XLR plug is not easy to disasemble, cut it off, get a new one and solder it to the cable (this time not the chinese way).

Since it's my first post here:
Hi everybody, with greetings fro nuremberg, germany.
Thanks for this great forum!