Cheapo chain, vocal and acoustic guitar

[netrom]

Hello everyone!

I've got two mates who want to make simple recordings, and they asked me for advice, and therefore Im asking here...

They asked if I could recommend a sound card and an allround microphone. They're planning to record vocals and acoustic guitar, but also el-guitar. I think they'd prefer a soundcard with preamps and also High Z input for the el-guitar.

Their budget is $1000.

Do you think Firebox is a good option? What good single mic would you buy (condenser---Vocal, acoustic guitar)?

Remember that they're amateurs, and they just want a stable, simple, DAW based system to do simple recording.

[darjama]

I've heard good things about the firebox. That leaves you with $700 for mics...

Anytime you ask for a mic suggestions there are always a ton of possibilties. I'd recommend getting 2: a dynamic and a condenser. This should give you a good range of potential sounds.

For the dynamic I'd recommend a sennheiser e906. Designed for guitar, but surprising good on vocals. The 3 eq curve choices gives you a good range of possibilities.

The condenser is a tougher call. The AT4050 is a popular versatile choice. I also like the CAD M179. There's a bunch of newer imports like the cad trion or karma mics that seem like they might have something to offer.

[the russian]

A Shure KSM44 is a good mic for vocals and the body of an acoustic, especially if you're on a small budget. It comes with a cool metal case and has a shockmount (which have nothing to do with the sound, but who doesn't like to have nice things?). It's nice to have a small diaphram condenser as well (for the neck of the guitar). I'd recommend the Shure SM81s (a little over budget, I know. The single condenser should get you going for a while, though). I'd suggest taking a look at the Line 6 VariAx Acoustic... it rules for low budget projects.

[netrom]

I thought about the AT4050. I'd like to try it out myself actually. It's getting good reviews. I've never heard about the CAD M179 though..Good compared to 4050?

I checked out the firebox, and it has Hi-Z input, but how's the preamps? If they got enough gain without to much noise, they're ok I guess.

[darjama]

I've only got limited experience with both the m179 and the at4050. I'd say the 4050 is probably a more neutral mic. It costs more than twice as much as the m179, and I'd still say it's a good value.

It looks like firebox preamps don't have that much gain, one site I saw said +35db, with a digital boost of 12b optional. That digital boost isn't really giving you anything besides effectively turning up the volume in software. So if your source are quiet, you might want to look at something else. A mackie onyx satelite might be a good choice. That gets you up to 60db of gain, includes a full copy of Tracktion for only $100 more.

[Windtaken]

choose the mics and hopefully you may have money to upgrade the firebox to a saffire. The preamps on the saffire are much better.

[manning1]

netrom.....
youll have to check this out for yourself.
as your taste may differ....but i heard a recording recently done with a phonic firewire mixer and it sounded pretty darn good.
frankly i was v surprised cos ive never heard much about phonic.
heres a link to some user reviews...
http://www.zzounds.com/productreview--PHOHELIX18FW
and heres another for fun...(notice the pro tools nbc comment....)
http://www.studiorecordingengineer.c...pict-1240.html
thus youll need to run your own tests and see whose right !
then you would just need mics. frankly ive always liked beyers.
just one more option to consider.
ps..also came across this....
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/NRV10/
another firewire device....they are hatching like hen eggs lol.

[max cooper]

4050 is an OK mic, but I really don't love the way it sounds without a nice, expensive preamp.

When you use it with the built-in converter/interface preamps, it kinda suuks.

I'm gonna suggest at least trying an SM7.

It may not be the ultimate acoustic mic, but I use it for that exact purpose pretty often.

If I were gonna have only one mic, it would be a dynamic.

[netrom]

Ok, I surfed around the web and ended up with these options. I'm meeting one of the guys on monday. I didn't create a mic list because the sm7b option came up (thanks btw).

Mackie Onyx Satellite

PreSonus FIREBOX

M-Audio FireWire 410

E-MU 1820M

Focusrite Saffire LE

Terratec phase x24

I've actually had good experience with the terratec cards, but not TOO much knowledge on the rest. I'm using MOTU + Panasonic da7 myself and haven't paid much attention to the cards on the list. I just listed them based on price. Tell me what you think.

[darjama]

i'd skip the e-mu. A friend has one, and the control panel is confusing and difficult to use.

[Lay in Wait]

The Mackie Onynx Satellite looks sooo lame. A lil cheesy if you ask me. Ive heard nothing but great things about the Firebox. Buy it, try its pre amps with what you have, then make more decisions/choices.

[Mike Jasper]

You know, I got a simple demo from a singer-songwriter last week who wants me to produce her stuff. She recorded it with an SM58 on her vocal, an SM57 on her guitar and then plugged her guitar in directly as well. It pretty much sounded like what I'm used to hearing when she plays live. That setup, while cheap, provides a very authentic sound.

Jasper

[Acoustic Cloud]

The firebox is a great little unit, and the pres are useable. I am sure it has more than 35 db of gain, thats the lowest I have seen. I think its closer to 60. The one I had sounded very good, and I w9ould have noticed right away if it was that low.

The emu is the best sounding card in its class, IMO.... BUT it also is confusing and buggy at the same time, plus it has the WORST pres of any card I have used (about 8 at this point)

The "other Fletcher" should have designed them.

[netrom]

Mackie Onyx Satellite - Looks LAME, but good preamps!

PreSonus FIREBOX - Got potential, but pre's might have low gain (?)

M-Audio FireWire 410 - ?

E-MU 1820M - Good sounding, but buggy and confusing control panel

Focusrite Saffire LE - Better preamps than the Firebox

Terratec phase x24 - ?

M-Audio NRV10 - Perhaps a little out of price range + No one has tested it yet

and - "I just worked on getting (26) Phonic Sonic Station 16 mixers installed into NBC/ Universal in Los Angeles. They've just replaced their old Mackie mixers in all of their Pro Tools editing suites with Phonic!

HAHA!

Phonic stuff - Don't think so. I've heard that the preamps are VERY bad

[cdog]

Mic - Shure KSM32

Mic Pre - M-Audio DMP3

Sound Card - EMU 0404

If you buy used off ebay the total cost would be around $500

You can get great sound with this setup.

Totally clean, clear, and quiet sound, its silly to spend anymore for a home setup.

[foldback]

It's not silly to spend more, it's slutty :-)

Used AKG 414B-ULS (transformer coupled version), $450 to $550 used on ebay (and it will still have good resale value when you decide to sell it).

Chameleon Labs 7602 preamp-equalizer (1073 China clone), your best value for under $1500, I got mine for $650 at GC with power supply. Class A mic pre, killer EQ, great DI, all transformer coupled.

[Acoustic Cloud]

BULS would be a good acoustic guitar mic... The Chameleon may be too grunty, but good for vocals. I like the dogs Idea of the dmp3, and move up from there.

BULS would be good for non-hype vox also.

SC- 1212m if you can do with 2 io, or firebox

there youre done

gettem!!

[netrom]

I like cdog's idea too. EMU 0404 = $100! Cheapoland! I think I might suggest that option.

Thanks for all the input guys!

[bensommerfeld]

The firebox is a great little unit, and the pres are useable. I am sure it has more than 35 db of gain, thats the lowest I have seen. I think its closer to 60.

From the Presonus-page:

Preamp Gain: 45dB (+12dB digital boost switch)

I was quite disappointed in the Firebox, especially because it is pushed on this forum very much. The pres are unusable with a dynamic mic like a SM57/58 and the "digital boost" option is nothing I can't manage with software-plugins myself. If you want *one device* with good preamps and a lot of gain, the Saffire is the best option in my opinion. It can drive my SM57 at high gain levels (60db maximum) without producing too much noise.
I was also surprised of the driver performance of the 2.0 Saffire drivers on Windows XP. Very stable for a "newbie" in the device-market.

Mic - Shure KSM32
Mic Pre - M-Audio DMP3
Sound Card - EMU 0404

Of course, buying separate components is always an option, although the 0404 is not my favourite card. It doesn't have balanced I/O, which can become a problem in some situations. I would prefer a card like the ESI Juliat or the M-Audio Audiophile 192. But there's nothing wrong with a KSM32 or M-Audio DMP3 in this price range.