I need help treating my 7' ceiling

[Chaotic]

So I just moved into a new apartment. my studio room is 13'x15' with a 7' ceiling. Also keep in mind that its an apartment, so I cant do anything permanent that will damage the existing walls and ceiling.

As far as my walls are concerned, I think Im ok. Im using 703 in free-standing frames that go from floor to ceiling. I have them in all corners, behind the mix position and at all first reflection points.

My issue is with the ceiling. Im not a big fan of Auralex, but I dont know how else to treat the ceiling. Auralex makes those velcro "temp tabs", which would be ideal, because when I move out, I could just peel the velcro tabs off the ceiling with a putty knife.


Hey Ethan: in an old thread about room treatment, you told someone who had 7' ceilings to use 703. Im just wondering if you had any ideas on how I could put 703 on my ceiling without using screws, nails or glue???


And would you recommend treating the whole ceiling or just above the mix position. Since its an apartment, and I dont want to bother my landlord who lives above me, if treating the whole ceiling would in anyway help the overall sound that travels upstairs, then Id do it for that reason. I know "sound proofing" a basement apartment is impossible, but Id like to tame the noise as much as I can.


One last thing: I have an L shaped walk in closet that Im going to use as a vocal booth. I do hiphop vocals exclusively, so a big open room isnt necessary. What would you recommend I do to treat that room. I was thinking 3/4" hardwood on the floors, 4" 703 on the walls and 2" 703 on the ceiling (in the closet I can use nails or screws or whatever, since its just a closet).

Any info would be helpful.

[daav]

Originally Posted by Chaotic

So I just moved into a new apartment. my studio room is 13'x15' with a 7' ceiling. Also keep in mind that its an apartment, so I cant do anything permanent that will damage the existing walls and ceiling.

As far as my walls are concerned, I think Im ok. Im using 703 in free-standing frames that go from floor to ceiling. I have them in all corners, behind the mix position and at all first reflection points.

My issue is with the ceiling. Im not a big fan of Auralex, but I dont know how else to treat the ceiling. Auralex makes those velcro "temp tabs", which would be ideal, because when I move out, I could just peel the velcro tabs off the ceiling with a putty knife.


Hey Ethan: in an old thread about room treatment, you told someone who had 7' ceilings to use 703. Im just wondering if you had any ideas on how I could put 703 on my ceiling without using screws, nails or glue???


And would you recommend treating the whole ceiling or just above the mix position. Since its an apartment, and I dont want to bother my landlord who lives above me, if treating the whole ceiling would in anyway help the overall sound that travels upstairs, then Id do it for that reason. I know "sound proofing" a basement apartment is impossible, but Id like to tame the noise as much as I can.


One last thing: I have an L shaped walk in closet that Im going to use as a vocal booth. I do hiphop vocals exclusively, so a big open room isnt necessary. What would you recommend I do to treat that room. I was thinking 3/4" hardwood on the floors, 4" 703 on the walls and 2" 703 on the ceiling (in the closet I can use nails or screws or whatever, since its just a closet).

Any info would be helpful.

Use screws or nails, just spackle the holes before you move out.

Daav

[Chaotic]

im trying to avoid making holes all over the place. I want to do as little damage to the place as possible, moving out is a pain in the ass to begin with, I dont want to spackle, sand and tape and paint the ceiling on top of that. What I'll might try is just wrapping 2" sheets of 703 with some velcro-fiendly fabric and see if I can velcro them to the ceiling. I was just wondering if anyone was in a similar situation. I could always just use auralex, because I know that its light enough to be supported by velcro, but #1 its way more expensive then 703 and #2 I dont think it works as good as 703.

[6strings]

It's probably easier to spackle/paint a few holes than to scrape velcro off the ceiling. There's a chance you could mess up the drywall that way. (and less chance of your 703 falling on your head in the middle of a session if you use toggle bolts!)

Use toggle bolts (ie: like a plant hanger) to hang your acoustical cloud of 703.

[Chaotic]

Originally Posted by 6strings

It's probably easier to spackle/paint a few holes than to scrape velcro off the ceiling. There's a chance you could mess up the drywall that way. (and less chance of your 703 falling on your head in the middle of a session if you use toggle bolts!)

Use toggle bolts (ie: like a plant hanger) to hang your acoustical cloud of 703.

right, if I decide to only use clouds, then I'd use screws or whatever, since there would only be a few holes. But I was considering doing my whole ceiling, to help tame some of the noise that would travel upstairs, where my landlord lives.
If thats the case, Id have to screw roughly 24 peices to my ceiling. thats a lot of screw holes to spackle (guesstimating 4 to 6 screws per panel)

[Black Seal]

If you're careful you'll be able to apply minimal spackle to fill the holes thus avoiding painting. I've done this with using 5 screws per 2'X4' panel. Make sure you use washers with the screws otherwise the 703 will fall off.

[6strings]

Hanging the cloud with a 2" gap of air between it and the ceiling will help absorbtion. However, don't fool yourself thinking you're going to be able to record drums or amps in there. Soundproofing is a whole 'nother beast.

[tINY]

703 won't do anyting for your upstairs neighbors. You need a second ceiling (and probably double gypsum boards).

Have you considered building a frame that's 4" from each wall and hanging the clouds from joists attached to the wall frames?




-tINY

[6strings]

Originally Posted by tINY

703 won't do anyting for your upstairs neighbors. You need a second ceiling (and probably double gypsum boards).

He's got a 7' ceiling to start with though.

How about finding out when your landlord goes to work and jamming at that time. That and a good pair of headphones are probably your best bet, unfortunately.

[bryanarchy]

i'd just hang a 703 cloud with a 2-4" air gap above mix position. There's not really any way you can minimize sound travelling up to the landlord without significant surgery to the room. At the very least, the 703 cloud will improve the sound of the room (at mix position). It'll be a hell of a lot better than auralex (whose sticky velcro things will likely not hold on the ceiling anyways).

[drummerboy1533]

I got THE solution for ya,Chaotic. IF your freestanding bass traps are incased in a wood frame(ala Ethan Weiners homemade bass traps)then "tack them"to the drywall with a few small L-brackets so they won't move around.Then bracket-mount a short peice of 2X8 from the top of the basstrap up to the ceiling height.Bracket mount 2X4's on top of the 2X8's ACCROSS the other end of the room to the opposite basstrap.(usually across the short side). So now you have a self supporting very strong frame stretching at TWO locations side to side.Loosely place 2X2's across the LONG end of the room which just sit atop the 2X4's. Leave them freely placed so you can SCOOT them around to perfectly space your 703 panels.NOW suspend your fabric covered-703 panels from the 2X2's.I used 4-each of the 4 inch eyebolts, four corner locations locked in place with two nuts and fender washers sandwiching the 703 at each point then covered them so they can't be seen.Just make sure you have a few inches of AIRGAP form the ceiling. One more very important thing! Leave a side area along each wall where the 703 panels will NOT be placed against.(Start the panels away from the walls about one-foot so you have room to work the panels into place.You can even place flood lighting ontop the panels and point them toward the walls-creates a really nice mood. Suspend the panels with strong twine and cinch them up to a level point.Scoot them butted up nicely against the other panels.Hell you can even "drop" a flourescent light fixture down through the panels and have bright lighting for work purposes.ALSO you can mount guitar holders at each basstrap 2X8 location. This won't really soundproof your room,only deaden the sound and prevent comb-filtering when mics are placed overhead up-high.The 703 will make the mics "see" the ceiling as very high.

[Chaotic]

I appreciate the advice drummerboy, but thats a little too involved for what Im doing. My studio is where my hiphop group writes and records our music. Its not going to be open to the public, so it should be easier to get it to where it needs to be since I only need to cater to my specific needs. I'll never be recording a full drum kit, or live strings or a grand piano. I'll have a small vocal booth (where I could also mic up a guitar cabinet if need be), everything else goes in DI-mic pre (bass, keys, turntables, samplers)

Basically I have my 13x15 control room and a 4x7 booth. So Im looking to treat the control room for mixdowns, and treat the booth to be pretty dead (since I dont have the luxury of a nice big live room).

Id really only treat the whole ceiling of my control room if it would help keeping the noise down so I dont bother my neighbors. But from the research Ive been doing, it wont likely help much with that. So I'll probably just go with a 703 cloud above the mix position. 4-6 screws in my ceiling is OK.

The rest of the control will be treated with 703 in floor-ceiling freestanding frames in all corners, behind the mix position and at all early reflection points.


I think thats the route I should go. any input????


My next thing to tackle is my vocal booth. Any suggestions on this would be helpful.

In my control room I have two big closets to choose from for a vocal booth. One is L shaped and bigger then the other. The problem with the L shaped one is that even though its bigger, the ceilings are too damn low. 6'6" to be exact!!! The MC in my group is 6'2", that doesnt leave much headroom!! I probably wouldnt be able to treat the ceiling, so im not sure if thats a good idea. Also, I dont know if L shaped booths are a good idea. Ive never seen one in a pro studio. and its not all that bigger then closet #2.

Closet #2 has 6'10" ceilings, but its a 3'10" x 7' rectangle with cedar walls.

If these were your two choices, which would you choose and how would you treat it???

Remember its for primarily male hiphop vocals. I plan on using outboard for my verb, since Im sure I cant get either booth to sound good, due to their size. So I wanna make them pretty dead (as long as its not so dead that it sounds like crap)

[mltamisin]

Why don't you get some diffusors instead? Maybe 4-6 Hemiffusors from RPG. Then you could do your velcro thing with no problem.

[mltamisin]

Sh!t, I just realized I'm in the Low End Theory section. My solution isn't exactly cheap. Just use the temp tabs and be done with it.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Hanging the cloud with a 2" gap of air between it and the ceiling will help absorbtion. However, don't fool yourself thinking you're going to be able to record drums or amps in there. Soundproofing is a whole 'nother beast.

Totally.


It'd be far more effective for your upstairs neighbour to put down a layer of carpet (or padding), then a layer of 3/4" or 5/8" ply and do a finish layer of carpet.

That'll eat most of the foot-traffic & cut down on your upwards auditory transmissions.

The more layers to the floor, the better the "soundproofing" is.

That's short of ripping the whole ceiling out & doing it the "right" way.

[tINY]

Originally Posted by Chaotic

My next thing to tackle is my vocal booth. Any suggestions on this would be helpful.


If these were your two choices, which would you choose and how would you treat it???

Remember its for primarily male hiphop vocals. I plan on using outboard for my verb, since Im sure I cant get either booth to sound good, due to their size. So I wanna make them pretty dead (as long as its not so dead that it sounds like crap)

I wouldn't use either closet for recording vocals. I'd set up a corner for vocals and use a cardioid mic.

THe closets might be useful for storage or for putting equipment with fans in (like computers or forced air-cooled amps). Just make sure you have a way to get air in and out through a muffling system - a couple of turns with 2" 703 lining would work fine.



-tINY