My Drum Sound and how to get it.

[donsolo]

I feel like I never create threads and especially useful threads so here’s my attempt at something useful to anyone who wants to know and I want to invite everyone to post their opinions, techniques, etc along with this so we can start a legitimate discussion about these things. I don’t really want to be giving away this info but it’s just between us, right? Anyone who lurks, I’d like to hear your opinions as well (you know who you are.)

Let’s talk about drums. Here’s my gear list involved:

Microphones:
Samson 8kit (Qkick, Qsnare C01 x2 C02H QTom x3)
Audix i5
Sennheiser e609
Shure SM57 x2
R0DE NT1A
R0DE NT5 matched pair
Fender guitar amp turned sub-kick (8inch speaker)

Preamps:
Motu 828 built-in
Behringer ADA8000
Presonus Bluetube (first generation)

Plugins/Effects:
Lexicon MX200
Waves REQ
Waves C1
Waves L1
Waves C4

I want to point out that I track in a VERY dead room. Because of this, I’m rarely satisfied with just a dry sound so I do a bit of work to liven up the kit.

First, I’ll set up my overheads. I use my NT5 Pair in XY patter about 2 feet above the drummer’s head pointed at the kit. I keep meaning to try my C01s but they are too often tied up on a piano or something else or I just don’t have time to experiment.

I use XY despite the fact that Spaced pair would be considered more ideal. I don’t get as wide of a drum sound as maybe I’d like to get but then I also don’t get major phase issues and no hole in the middle of the stereo field. This room also produces little natural reflections so the ambience just isn’t there. Also, stands are limited and I’ve got a stereo bar.

The last time I did a drum track I didn’t have my Audix i5 (next time I’m going to use it instead) so I used an SM57 on the top of the snare at about the rim maybe 3 inches above 45 degrees pointing at the point of impact on the drum.
Underneath, I put the C02H (that’s the shorter version of the C02) dead center about 3 inches below pointing directly at the snares.
I’ll clip on each QTom and put them pretty close and aimed more at the edge of the head than across it as they don’t really get that far away from the drum.

I take off the front head of the kick. I know this isn’t considered desirable but it’s a good way to get a nice pillow-y sound to your kick that many styles (country, jazz) call for. I’ll put my Qkick which is like a Beta 52/D112 right up against the beater head back maybe 2 inches and point it right at the point of impact. Then, I’ll use either my Sub-kick and put it on the outside of the kick or put a C01 pointed inwards at about a 45 degree angle into the drum to pick up the boom part of the sound.

I’ll run everything through the behringer except the kick out and snare bottom which go through my Bluetube with the phase inverted (the kick usually needs a pad as well)

Once I have the take I like, I’ll do the following things:

I’ll bus the entire drum kit down to a single stereo track.
I will Low Pass the kick out at around 150-250 (depending on mood) to get just the boom sound and bring that up.
I High pass the kick in at about the same point and lowpass it around 2k to get just the thwap sound.
I’ll boost the overheads at around 4k as a high shelf by about 3db (just before it sounds like a filter/effect)
I’ll bus send a lot of snare bottom, some snare top and some of the overheads to my Lexicon MX200 on preset 7 with both wet set to 100 percent.
I’ll compress my kicks a bit maybe even limit them. I want the bass drum to really grab me in the chest I almost overdo this for when I:
Apply the C4 Multi-band compressor to the drum bus. I’ll expand the high frequencies, and really compress the lows (I start with a low-level enhancer setting as a starting point) I usually have to reduce the volume of the entire bus to keep the signal under control. I like the air to really come out at this point and the bass to sound really tight.

As for blend, I like LOTS of overheads, and LOTS of Snare bottom and LOTS of kick. I want the sizzle of the snare to shine through and the kick to really snap at you. The overheads give a nice image of the whole thing and I don’t have to use too much tom mics.

If the toms are destroying my image I’ll gate them but this tends to sound effect-y to my ears so I like to just blend them in and pan accordingly. If I DO gate them, I’ll squish them hard too so the sustain really holds on.

I pan my drums from the drummer’s perspective. I pan my Piano hard so I want the hi hat to be on the other side of the high keys. They’ll get in the way of each other if I don’t do that. The toms do the same thing, the lowest are pretty far right so the bottom of the piano doesn’t get in the way.

Here’s some other useful things that might work but I just never get to:

Replace the 57 with the C02 on top (I’ve done this but blended the 57 in as well, I was pleased with the results)
Remove the kick out and bring back the kick in by about 6 inches or so.
Keep kick out and replace the kick in with an SM57 on the beater side of the head and really grab the attack. (great for metal)
Spaced pair on overheads.
M-S on overheads (I don’t actually have a fig 8 mic right now, I want a C03 so it’ll sound like a C01)
Replace tom mics with Sm57s, use the i5 on snare and something else (maybe Electrovoice-blue Raven) on floor tom.
Single SM57 for rack toms (so you won’t screw the stereo image of the rest of the kit though I like my toms to slide through the field through a fill)
Don’t process the mics so much.
More reverb (mine is really just a room verb, a big hall or plate would replace) and don’t use overheads, JUST snare, Very 80s sounding.
Distort Snare track.
Mono Overhead with autopan (though you’ll lose the realism of the kit)
Use each NT5 to mic just each cymbal and gate each drum and apply reverb judiciously to each mic to create a room sound with your reverb.
Trigger a sample from toms (especially when the drummer is too broke for new heads)
Trigger a sample from any other drum.
Hang headphones around drummer’s neck and use them as a microphone.
Put a LD condenser between drummer’s legs around crotch-area (make sure to use protection)
Get a new drummer
Hire a drum tech so it’ll finally be tuned right.
Chose a snare that has that ring but in key with the song and stop trying to deaden it out (I moon-gel every tom and snare)
Popcorn snare detuned to death, apply lots of compression and verb (big ballad style)

[Lardroom]

Who knows what about the Microtech Gefell PM750 hand grenades? What's a reasonable price for a pair in great condition? What's a worse way to go: eaten alive bya roving band of dingos, or buried in cement? Starbucks or local? Should Resse give Ryan another chance? When will someone finally put a stop to the Rolling Stones?

Also, what are some typical uses for them PM750 critters?

X's and O's...

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by The Red Door

Also, what are some typical uses for them PM750 critters?

Slipperman, is that you?

Umm, didn't really follow your reply for some reason...and a google search wasn't helpful on the PM750...

[mezzaninefloor]

Honestly, I can't imagine why you would do near that much processing to your drums. I know this is an old thread but I had to say something. This is a ridiculous, all over the place, stream of thought essay that detours to other valley's of thought that aren't even in the same country. There was no sample to listen to and I don't think that most people want to read a novel about how you got your drum sound with gear that totals under $1K with no reference sample to back up the 15 page book explaining how you got it there. Especially seeing that you said you LP and HP your kick drum all in the same sentence. That makes no sense.

Anyway, sorry if that comes off harsh, but I couldn't not say something.

Yay,
Joe