MOTU Ultralite vs Presonus Firebox

[barbital]

I've been considering at some point in "upgrading" my Firebox to a MOTU Ultralite as people have claimed the Ultralite will have better converters and preamps. But I was wondering if I would be better off just sticking with the Firebox.

Is there a real difference in overall quality between the Firebox and Ultralite?

I've heard the preamps on the Firebox and the Ultralite and the Firebox pres are certainly useable enough for a home studio. I didn't notice any change in quality in the preamps on the Ultralite apart from gain but are they really a lot better or just slightly better?

I know I can get the Ultralite for around $1K in Australia, and can save up for one, but is the Ultralite a huge advantage over the Firebox?

Any input or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
Ben

[andrew269]

if you don't need the extra i/o you'd be better off buying one or two good pre amps to run into the firebox.

[barbital]

Good advice Andrew. At first I was confused as to what options I was looking at. But now that my mind is clear I am going to check out the specs of some different mic pres.

I don't want an expensive mic pre, but one that will get the job done for vocals. I have been looking at a few, including the Studio Projects VTB1 and the Presonus BlueTube DP both of which were quite good on paper.

Now it's time to hear them. I'll do a forum search for these pres and look at what others are saying. I've been told the VTB1 is better than BlueTube, but someone told me it was the other way around. I'll have to do a bit of homework. And finally I'll have to go to town and listen to them with my ears. I think my ears will be the ones doing the final judging. I currently own an MXL V6 Silicone Valve mic. I already reserved serious money for an ADAM 2.1 monitor setup and a few hundred for acoustic treatment and bass trapping, because I couldn't skimp on monitors.

But for mic pres, as long as the noise is low and the output is clean and free of unwanted distortion, and the mic I'm using is of reasonably good quality, I'm a happy camper.

[andrew269]

Originally Posted by barbital

Studio Projects VTB1 and the Presonus BlueTube DP

now i haven't heard either of these, but my gut tells me that neither would be a significant step up from the firebox's built in pres. assuming that you have about 1 grand to work with (since you mentioned the motu) you might want to look into a single channel sebatron unit since you're in australia. but like you said, let your own ears be the deciding factor.

[donsolo]

sh*t just go for the 828..the ADAT IO is really worth it.

The ultralite's buss powered though which is super-cool.

and the half-space thing's kinda nice.

But no optical...potential growth is limited.

[atma]

what's wrong with the firebox pre's ?

[barbital]

Not quite enough gain. I want to record some friends playing acoustic guitar and of course some vocals.

The Blue Tube has 54dB of gain which is a bit better. An extra 9dB does make a difference.

[atma]

you need to double click on the firebox icon that sits in your taskbar and check the boxes for the +12db gain in both the preamps. that's 52db gain total

[s-cube]

I had the Presonus firebox & sold it for the very same reason, shitty preamps..I think the Ultralite would be a better option not only do you get better preamps you get more i/o's as well & it's a much more solid device than the firebox..

If you don't need the extra i/o's maybe a dedicated preamp would be the way to go..

[donsolo]

again +1

[adi]

i think you're on the right track about getting better pres, but you're settling too much with the pres your thinking about. an API can be had for $600 or so and would be a massive step up for you.

[Andrew Kinsey]

Most mic preamps that are bundled in with external interfaces arn't great, obviously some are better than others but its not really worth changing the interface you already have just because of the preamps.

For this reason i would have to agree with the previous posters that you are better off looking for a decent mic preamp rather than another audio interface. As for what preamp to choose, that is another topic and would depend on your budget and the sound you want to achieve.

[atma]

er, 57db gain total, with the +12 gain switches enabled. apparently i can't count. nonetheless, its more gain than the bluetube, and should be more than enough to suit your needs.

[barbital]

The real difference is the extra 9dB of headroom.

Having 54dB to play with is going to be better than having only 45dB because I am less likely to really push the preamp to it's limits therefore resulting in a better quality signal.

That extra 9dB of headroom provided by the BlueTube DP would be great for recording my vocals. The pres on the Firebox just don't have enough headroom for me. Even an extra 6dB would be nice at the peaks where I really express myself loudly. But 9dB is even better.

[atma]

as i just tried to explain, the firebox is capable of 57db total gain on its mic preamps. you have to enable the +12db boost switches via the firebox software popup menu, "hardware settings".

[barbital]

The +12dB boost is not true gain. With more true gain (45db vs 54db) you get more headroom because the preamp will not overload as easily.

This 12dB boost simply apples digital amplification after the A/D converters have converted the analog signal.

I am getting a preamp. I might look at the Rane MS1-B.

Ben

[adi]

for the price you can get an API at, it seems that saving up for one would be your best move, no? the preamps being thrown around in here don't even seem worth the upgrade to me.

[Methlab]

The firebox pres aren't shitty. I don't think they are fantastic, but they are not shitty either. I think that's a little extreme. I got a Meek 3q also, which another cheaper pre, but I run it into the line in of the firebox. I think the Meek 3q may be the best deal out there if you don't want to spend a lot of coin on a channel strip. My next purchase will be API, either A2D or a lunchbox. But for now the Meek into the Firebox sounds quite good. Thats probably around 500 for that combo, and you would have 3 channels of Pre, EQ, opto compression and A/D conversion.

For home tracking, im all for buying the bare minimum and getting the best out of it. It always has made me a better producer in the long run. Once I master this gear, ill move up to API + Apogee, but here is what I have been getting lately:

Firebox for A/D instead of Rosetta
Meek 3Q instead of API (for now)
AT 3035 instead of 4000 series
Audix I5...well this is an upgrade from a 57 actually
Fender Blues Jr. instead of Deluxe Reverb

[feyshay]

For what you want, I don't think the Ultralite is that much a step up from the Firebox. I used to have a Firebox but sold it for a MOTU Traveller. I clock that to an Apogee device. I've been happy with that Traveller. I upgraded not because of preamps but because of the amount of digital connections I needed.
If your connections are not a limiting factor, I'd get better preamps than the ones in that Firebox. Plenty of good one or two channel preamps for now and then upgrade your conversion in the future. You might want to check out the Apogee Mini-MP. Don't even think about getting that Blue Tube DP. Save up for
preamp(s) that are better than that.

[Acoustic Cloud]

I bought a firebox about 6 months ago from Warren, just to test it...INSTEAD of reading about it from everyone else. I wanted to have it in my hands, and hear it!

The pres are very usable for anything IMO. Would I have sold my Hardy or Manley to use those, no.

I think the pres in the firebox are the best built ins I have used, even better than the Audiofire pres, which i have now. The i/o on the Firebox is not enough for me, but still the unit performed very well for 300 bux.

I am glad I bought it and flipped it, lost 30 bucks I think it was. Consider it rental price. It was well worth the experience.

[jakromm]

you could go with a pre from seventh circle audio

I had a firebox and got rid of it for same reason, not enough true gain. I had to have it maxed out (without the +12 because its pointless to use, if I want to digitaly amplify I can do that in post...) and it seemed to barely record it around the -3db I wanted. I just got a MOTU 896 off ebay, hopefully the built in pres are better, I know the conversion is...

[roderick]

Sorry to bring up this old thread but I am a Firebox owner and was considering buying a nicer preamp such as API, Great River, etc. My concern is will the sound quality be diminished due to the Firebox converters? or will there not be an audible difference? Thanks!

[P.J]

Does Ultralite have very better DAC/DSP/AMP compared to Firebox to listen to musics through speaker/headphone ?

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Firebox sucks, sold mine years ago.

I would NOT, I repeat WOULD NOT!!! buy a $100-$200 preamp and expect an improvement in tone over the firebox preamps or that the added gain will be useable.

If you want a better preamp you will likely be spending about $1k to do it.

I'd suggest upgrading interface FIRST.

Then down the road you can start looking into better pres like the Great River, API, Neve, Trident, Daking, Sebatron, UA, Focusrite, etc. etc.

I think the converters and preamps in the Firebox are just garbage (hence I no longer own mine) so just do yourself a favor and get a better interface. Might I suggest you pick up a Yamaha N8 or N12. That gives you really nice pres and some of the best converters money can buy.

[KeithMoonwannabe]

Originally Posted by P.J

Does Ultralite have very better DAC/DSP/AMP compared to Firebox to listen to musics through speaker/headphone ?

just about anything works better than the Firebox for anything you want to do. It's really not that great. I'm sorry.

And specifically yes the MOTU is better, better converters are more transparent. The Presonus I had always seemed to sound different from every other system pro or consumer I'd used. That wasn't a good thing, I could tell that stuff was missing and colored.

[P.J]

Originally Posted by KeithMoonwannabe

just about anything works better than the Firebox for anything you want to do. It's really not that great. I'm sorry.

And specifically yes the MOTU is better, better converters are more transparent. The Presonus I had always seemed to sound different from every other system pro or consumer I'd used. That wasn't a good thing, I could tell that stuff was missing and colored.

But Ultralite is $300 more than Firebox :(
Please tell me how is Firebox compared to Edirol FA-66/101 :(

[D. Rumble]

Why don't we stop kidding around and tell the guy to get this thing: Buy Mackie Onyx 400F FireWire Computer Recording Interface Factory B-Stock | Audio Interfaces & Convertors | Audio Interfaces | Musician's Friend

d.