Recording Set-up help!

[-Noodles-]

Hey,

I'm basically after something which i can record a full drum kit, with good quality and ease of use.
At uni i use ProTools (LE) and so, i'm leaning towards a 002 (or a 18/14).
As for monitors;

Studio Spares SN10s (on the basis that they're based upon NS10s, with good results)

KRK RP6's


Opinions,.. or other options?
I'm not really looking to do video editing, it's basically just to be able to record up to a kit (of about 10 mics) with good quality.
I'd be using Windows XP till next year till i can get a mac.

Thanks,
-noodles-

[-Noodles-]

No-one..?

[donsolo]

If you're comfortable with PT, got with PT.

IMHO, there are less expensive ways of working, (IE, Behringer ADA8000 and M-audio Firewire 410 plus DP, total around 800 and that's 10 channels in)

You'll need mics, stands and cables

MAKE SURE TO BUDGET FOR STANDS AND CABLES

I've seen THAT scenario too often.

As for Mics, 57 or i5 for Snare is standard 609s are also nice (either double these or add a C02/NT5 SD Condensor for bottom of snare).
D112, D6 or Beta 52 for kick (Add and RE20, 421 or any of the previously mentioned if you want in and out mics)

Overheads...Really big can of worms. Low end wise, I like the NT5 pair personally (I roll out the lows on them anyway) For LD condensor, you can use basically anything so long as you like em.

Toms, You can use many things, Sennheiser makes great clip ons (No need for more stands there) I THINK (don't quote me) they're 603, someone correct me if I'm wrong. 57s work well, 421 are great, or even put triggers on em and trigger some really nice samples if that's the sound you're looking for.

If you want to mic the hi hat, use a SD condensor like an NT5.

Make sure to phase invert the bottom snare and kick out

So let's cover this again, to do close mic stuff you prbobably need 10 channels (I assume you want kick out and Bottom snare)

Let's go really really cheap and say you spend 100 each on mics (I'm REALLY being cheap here) That's 1000
Your Digi 002 is another 1500
200 in cables
let's say you use a stereo bar and clip ons 5 stands (3 if you opt out of kick out and snare bottom) Let's say that's another 150

Grand Total:
$2850 Plus any additional plugins.

Otherwise, you could go uber-cheap and buy like a Samson 8Kit for $300 instead of $1k on mics

It all depends on your needs, wants and sound.

The vagueness of your post is probably why noone's touched it...


That and there's already been about 1 billion posts about this already and a quick search would have helped.

[-Noodles-]

I did search the forums, and the closest i came up with was the Digi002 vs FW1814 topic... which i posted in.

As for being vauge, i was asking which is better; the FW1814 or the Digi002 for an interface.

Monitors as well, i was asking for opinions.

Hope this clears that up,

[JustAboutReal]

I second that recomendation to go with Digital Performer

unless you're already nice and comfy with protools go for DP, or logic... you'll save a bunch of money on hardware (both interface, and other wise).

[deve]

I think you can find an rme hammerfall multiface I 24/96 used for pretty cheap. It has decent sounding converters and Totalmix for hardware monitoring. 8 analog 8 digital i/o's. It's a respectable piece of equipment. But you'll have to spend for preamps and a software. For budget software, Samplitude SE is 50 bucks and kicks some serious butt. And sam is the recommended software by rme, you wouldn't have any compatibility issues. For preamps, there must be some clean cheap stuff out there.

[-Noodles-]

Thanks for the suggestions, but due to compatibility with my local studios - and Univeristy work, ProTools is the best option for me.

Basically - is it worth buying the "all inclusive" package of the 002, or buying the M-Audio gear then building a system?

[P. Rene]

go maduio lightbridge with mpowered and call it a day.

[deve]

Originally Posted by P. Rene

go maduio lightbridge with mpowered and call it a day.

I am waiting for it to be mpowered compatible. It still isn't. The word is it's going to be 7.3 compatible only, and nobody knows when.

[LoopQuantum]

Not sure if you've seen the other threads on this, But the Lightbridge's inputs are limited with PTMP to 16 or 18. So......even when it does work, it'll afford you no more inputs/outputs than any of the other Digi/M-Audio interfaces, short of an HD system. Not really a bad thing still, as you can use your own A/Ds, and 16 is enough for many folks.

I'm actually a bigger fan of ProtoolsLE than PTMP if you need to go the PT route. PTLE affords you the ability to expand into DVtoolkit/DV editing, while PTMP does not. Also OMF translation via Digitranslator. Things you may want to integrate down the road.

Not sure what your budget is, did I miss that? Look into Digi002r. 8 ins, 4 pres, adat lightpipe (you can add an 8 channel converter for more inputs), MIDI, and S/Pdif. Also, should you choose to use another App, it's got a CoreAudio driver....will work with Logic, DP, etc.

Hope this helps. I understand people reticence towards PT, though at this point it's so ubiquitous, it commands respect from clients. Good Luck.

[mltamisin]

The KRK's are nice monitors. If you can afford it the Dynaudio BM6's are a little better. The KRK's were my favorite as far as less expensive monitors go. Good choice.

[-Noodles-]

Originally Posted by mltamisin

The KRK's are nice monitors. If you can afford it the Dynaudio BM6's are a little better. The KRK's were my favorite as far as less expensive monitors go. Good choice.

Thanks

LoopQuantum - Thanks mate, that's the more of the style of information i was looking for. You think that the 002 Rack would be a safe way to go, that i need to record a drum kit with good results? [baring in mind that ProTools is the system that I ideally want to work with]
My budget is around £1000 for monitors and software / hardware.

I figure that the 002R is retailing for around £750, and KRKs i can get for £250.
Naturally my budget can be increased / decreased as products go - but essentially i need a system that is reliable, with good sound results, compatability with my Uni's Studio, and worth it's money!

[amorris]

man, you cant get real good results without spending money. now bear in mind, i work in pro studios, but the 002 is terrible sounding. its fine for keys that dont have any real dimension or dynamics, but a mic on a drum kit? i am now redoing over a years work (personal band and we were writing too) cause we trusted an 002 and then went to a real studio to mix. dull, lifeless and no fidelity. now you dont notice till you get in a real room. and it sounds fine at home. just fooling ourselves. we now have a protools mix24 system and dude, its professional. all our tracks sound great and we record at home ,mix on an SSL. now you can buy this stuff now and start working, but im telling you it will be lacking if you try to make it sound like a huge record.

[mrufino1]

1814 works okay, but drivers still are n't sorted out that let the software knobs work. Once I got the 1814 to work well with xp, aside from the aforementioned issue it has been good. It can clock to word clock, which the 002 can't, and it has hardware monitoring, which the 002 does not (002 uses low latency monitoring mode, which works but you cannot run aux plugs in that mode, so you can't offer reverb to a singer for instance in the box). However, I do the 002 is easier to integrate. The 1814 works for me currently though, I usually record 16 channels live with no issues (behri ada8000 as my adat preamps, all clocked to an aardvark clock at 24/44.1 or 48 if requested).

[orez_lived]

Sennheiser makes the e604, with the clips.

[-Noodles-]

Originally Posted by amorris

.....

If i had real money, i know how i'd spend it - but right now getting me through the course is enough problem!

I'm not really asking for opinions on higher end stuff, because i'm pretty well aware of what's out there - but i don't really know the lower end. Such as the 002R and the 1814, which is within the money i have to spend - and matches the specs i need right now to complete work within the next few years.

mrufino1 - what DAW software you working with?

[LoopQuantum]

Originally Posted by amorris

man, you cant get real good results without spending money. now bear in mind, i work in pro studios, but the 002 is terrible sounding. its fine for keys that dont have any real dimension or dynamics, but a mic on a drum kit? i am now redoing over a years work (personal band and we were writing too) cause we trusted an 002 and then went to a real studio to mix. dull, lifeless and no fidelity. now you dont notice till you get in a real room. and it sounds fine at home. just fooling ourselves. we now have a protools mix24 system and dude, its professional. all our tracks sound great and we record at home ,mix on an SSL. now you can buy this stuff now and start working, but im telling you it will be lacking if you try to make it sound like a huge record.

Curious. You mentioned not noticing till you get in a real room. How much of your bad experience with the 002 could be attributed to the room in which you were recording originally? What was your signal path in front of the 002? What plugins?
Admittedly, there is much to be had out there for more $$$, but at the price, the 002 converters are great, the pres are quite good, etc.

Also curious that you cite the old Mix24 converters as better. WOW. I couldn't disagree more. The advantage of a TDM system, even one as legacy as an older mix system, is DSP certainly not converter quality in this case. The 002 converters spec out better than the old 888s significantly. Were we to compare them to the PTHD converters, this would be a different story. This is why so many Apogee AD8000s and Aardsyncs were strapped onto mix systems back in the day.

I have an HD1 and 96io at home, and a 002rack for location stuff. Never have I been disappointed with it. Not once. FWIW.

[LoopQuantum]

Originally Posted by -Noodles-

Thanks

LoopQuantum - Thanks mate, that's the more of the style of information i was looking for. You think that the 002 Rack would be a safe way to go, that i need to record a drum kit with good results? [baring in mind that ProTools is the system that I ideally want to work with]
My budget is around £1000 for monitors and software / hardware.

I figure that the 002R is retailing for around £750, and KRKs i can get for £250.
Naturally my budget can be increased / decreased as products go - but essentially i need a system that is reliable, with good sound results, compatability with my Uni's Studio, and worth it's money!

Recording a drum kit will certainly require more Pres.....the 002 only has 4

Look into an ADAT lightpipe preamp to expand your simultaneous inputs to 16. Motu 8pre, Presonus Digimax's, Focusrite octopre and octopreLE, Mackie Onyx800r, to name a few.

[-Noodles-]

so, a 002 + a motu 8 pre would be sufficient?

[LoopQuantum]

Yes.

The only compromise with the 8pre is that while it gives you 8 more ins, it only gives you 2 more outs. So not as many possibilities for creating extra send/returns. But it will work, and work well.

[deve]

behringer ada8000. it's around 120 bucks used. $240 new. it'll perfectly add 8 pres, 8ad, 8da at 24/48 to your digi002. Cheapest solution.

[LoopQuantum]

Wait.

When you're using an external digital device with the 002....you pretty much have to use that external device as the master clock in most cases. Else you get nasty clicks and pops....for some reason the 002 doesn't like to be the master.

I don't think I'd want to clock my entire system to a behringer clock.....sorry, is my prejudice showing?

[-Noodles-]

so, list;
an "external pre-amp" (such as Behinger, Motu)
002R
Monitors.

[donsolo]

actually you can slave the ADA8000 to your Digi 002

I hook up both lightpipes to it (in and out) And set it to slave from ADAT...

ADAT transmits sync info as well as 8ch

And yes, it's internal clock has jitter error written allover it.

[deve]

Originally Posted by LoopQuantum

Wait.

When you're using an external digital device with the 002....you pretty much have to use that external device as the master clock in most cases. Else you get nasty clicks and pops....for some reason the 002 doesn't like to be the master.

I don't think I'd want to clock my entire system to a behringer clock.....sorry, is my prejudice showing?

Well count me in anytime for behringer bashing but now, is that ada8000's fault or digi002's? It means that if you want 8 more channels with your digi002 you have to invest in a good clock too.

[LoopQuantum]

nope...just means you need to buy an ADAT pre whose clock isn't inferior to the 002, as the preamp will be the master clock....or, yes you could buy a master clock.

[deve]

Well, that happens to be the cheapeast one with the most features. That's an option if budget is a concern.

[-Noodles-]

Originally Posted by deve

Well, that happens to be the cheapeast one with the most features. That's an option if budget is a concern.

Yeah, it is a minor concern - however, if it's a part of the chain i can upgrade in the future, it's not a massive problem.

[donsolo]

it's actually a pretty badass little unit.

I know they're not the greatest pres but honestly, they're clear and you can add color later with ColortoneFree (or actually buy the real deal)

[-Noodles-]

thanks guys for all the help, you've really helped me out!!