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Smallish and low room. "quick fix" ?
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jangoux
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#1
4th October 2006
Old 4th October 2006
  #1
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Smallish and low room. "quick fix" ?

Hello everyone,

I posted a while ago something about my room. It's about 9 feet tall, almost trapezium-shaped, with a bunch of corners, wood floor, and a big wood locker that covers one wall on half of the room. Here's the deal : Today i ran and recorded some sine waves on various areas of the room (not anything professional...did that so i could have the idea). It had a BIG peak at about 60 or 70hz and some peaks at about 300hz and 1khz. At about 12khz, the highs went up too.

The proof that this room has a big boost at those lows is that my band rehearses on it and there's always a sound problem. When there's someone playing bass, the overall sound is so much louder. The pressure is so much higher, even with the bass being quiet. When there's no bass, I can even crank my guitar a lot more and it won't bother that much. Cymbals also bother a lot, and sometimes can be too ear-piercing (that explains the 12khz-and-over peak?) and undefined. To get them to sound right on record is really a tough job, trying many mic positions and configurations.

So, this is a room i cannot modify, and after seeing some of those DIY panels some guys made here, i will also try that. But before, i have a few questions :

1) Does rockwool provides any health hazard? I've read that fiberglass is not good, and a studio onwer i contact also told me rockwool is not good healthy-wise and should be handled with care.

2) The panels should be mainly at the corners or just hanging them at the wall will do the job ? I ask that because the corners on this room cannot be occupied and I am worried that just hanging stuff on the walls will not provide me much help

3) How many panels will at least help a little this room ? Just to remember : it's trapezium shaped, has a 9 feet ceiling, it's lenght is about 20 feet and it's about 10 feet wide.

4) For now i am most worried by the overall room sound, getting instruments to sound right. But how about the mixing position ? I've seen some studios with bass absorbers behind the monitors, but i've also seen them where the speakers are pointed. Btw, the mix position is on the bigger side of the trapezium...at a corner (I know, i know....tutt )

5) It will be hard to treat the ceiling, even though i know it's probably what needs the most treatment, besides the corners. It will be hard just because, since i cannot modify the physical space, there will be nothing to hang the panels in. Any ideas of how to treat the ceiling on this case? If i treat the rest of the room, will it really matter that the ceiling is treated or not ?

6) Since the room is too narrow (just 10 feet wide) i suppose it's produces a lot of standing waves and early reflections that are a hell for recording, specially drums, right ? So, will those rockwool panels help that too?

thanks,
Ivan Jangoux

Last edited by jangoux; 4th October 2006 at 09:41 AM.. Reason: some more info.
#2
4th October 2006
Old 4th October 2006
  #2
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Quote:
1) Does rockwool provides any health hazard? I've read that fiberglass is not good, and a studio onwer i contact also told me rockwool is not good healthy-wise and should be handled with care.
rockwool has small particles of glass in it that will irratate your skin, throat, eyes etc.. Although these would only come loose when moving it around etc.. The solution is simple, just wrap it in material and it will be fine

Quote:
2) The panels should be mainly at the corners or just hanging them at the wall will do the job ? I ask that because the corners on this room cannot be occupied and I am worried that just hanging stuff on the walls will not provide me much help
they are more effective at absorbing bass frequencies in the corner, but they wil work to some degree anywhere. Remeber the join between the walls and the ceiling is a "corner" too. as is the join between the floor to the walls, just on a different orientation

Quote:
3) How many panels will at least help a little this room ? Just to remember : it's trapezium shaped, has a 9 feet ceiling, it's lenght is about 20 feet and it's about 10 feet wide.
It depends on lots of things, like the materials the room is made our of, and what type of absorbtion you are using, just a guess cover about 1/4 the walls area. I may be completely wrong.

Quote:
4) For now i am most worried by the overall room sound, getting instruments to sound right. But how about the mixing position ? I've seen some studios with bass absorbers behind the monitors, but i've also seen them where the speakers are pointed. Btw, the mix position is on the bigger side of the trapezium...at a corner (I know, i know....tutt )
was that a question?

Quote:
5) It will be hard to treat the ceiling, even though i know it's probably what needs the most treatment, besides the corners. It will be hard just because, since i cannot modify the physical space, there will be nothing to hang the panels in. Any ideas of how to treat the ceiling on this case? If i treat the rest of the room, will it really matter that the ceiling is treated or not ?
if you can't treat it you cant treat it, just do what you can. can you not even put in a couple of screws/hooks?

Quote:
6) Since the room is too narrow (just 10 feet wide) i suppose it's produces a lot of standing waves and early reflections that are a hell for recording, specially drums, right ? So, will those rockwool panels help that too?
yup, to a certain degree.
Quote:
thanks,
no worries
narco
#3
4th October 2006
Old 4th October 2006
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You got some good answers from the above but here are few things.

Your mix position (where you sit) should be 38% of the room length of the room. For more info, click on the FAQ of my sig. If you really have a problem in the 60 to 70 Hz range then plain rigid fiberglass or mineral wool wrapped will not do the job. I have just seen some data from a company that has plan wrapped fiberglass and was not very impressed at all from 100 Hz down. To tame that area you would need to either buy a true commercial product, build tuned panel traps, try making 6" panels and cover them with FRK (straddling corners), or build some super chunks.
If you would like, send me a layout of our room and I would be more then happy to see the best solution for you.

Glenn
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#4
5th October 2006
Old 5th October 2006
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For the ceiling..

One time when I was renting, I put up 2X4's in the corners of the room, floor to ceiling, and ran beams around the perimeter of the ceiling, supported by the 2X4's, and then put in a few ceiling joists to hang stuff from. Sort of like building a porch roof with no roof inside your room. If you stain and finish the wood it could look really cool. Then you could get some of those GIK corner traps and stack them in the corners, put up something above the drums, like maybe some eggshell foam mounted on 1/4" plywood, say 2 foot by 4 foot sections, and you'd be in pretty good shape. I have some foam like that on my 8 & 1/2 foot ceiling, and I'm getting decent drums sounds. The key in my room is micing the standard way, but then adding 2 PZM mics mounted on the wall behind the drummer, level with his snare, and a LDC 3 feet out in front of the kit, chest high, or so. (There's a sweet spot. You have to listen for it). All of a sudden, in spite of the sucky room, the drums come alive.
#5
5th October 2006
Old 5th October 2006
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Forgot to mention I also have some 16X16 sonex foam squares mounted on 1/4 " plywood panels, 32"X48" with 1X2's around the edge, that can be moved around to either deaden the room a bit for drums, or to use for gobos during live acoustic recording. All this is assuming you're a do-it-yourselfer like me. When you've got more time than money, it's a good way to go.
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