SM PRO AUDIO PR8 (Black Lion Mod)

[starscream2010]

Has ANYONE heard these, post-mod???

I have seen a lot of buzz about this on the net, but, can't seemed to find any opinions from anyone that's actually used or heard one.

Just wanting to know if it's worth the $$$ to mod or if I should save towards something like the Mackie 800R.

I already own a PR8 and just need some "general" clean/useable pres, until I can afford to build a full rack on the Seventh Circle stuff, so I am hoping this mod would help me get some more mileage out of them.

Any info would be much appreciated

Thanks!
Nick


(I have already utsf extensively)

[ben_allison]

I'm curious tooooooooo!

[jeronimo]

make it 3

[Snatchman]

Matt has samples of this pre up on his site now..!...

[starscream2010]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Matt has samples of this pre up on his site now..!...

Thanks!!! I didn't see that on the site, last time I looked.


I listened to the samples last night (Modded PR8 vs ME 1NV on elec & acous gtr) and to me there is definitely a difference (I liked the 1NV better), but, I think that the mod will fit my needs and give me some more mileage out of the PR8.

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by starscream2010

Thanks!!! I didn't see that on the site, last time I looked.


I listened to the samples last night (Modded PR8 vs ME 1NV on elec & acous gtr) and to me there is definitely a difference (I liked the 1NV better), but, I think that the mod will fit my needs and give me some more mileage out of the PR8.

Yeah, the mod sounds good for what the pre costs. There's a difference between the Great River and it tho'. I mean what'd you expect in the price difference.. ...( The GR is "thicker" sounding.IMHO) Probably credited to the transformers in the GR. From what I hear though, the PR8 modded hangs right in there with some of the "mid-range $300/$800" pre's. Except you get 8 channels for the price of 1 or 2 channels.!..( YMMV).....

[starscream2010]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

Yeah, the mod sounds good for what the pre costs. There's a difference between the Great River and it tho'. I mean what'd you expect in the price difference.. ...( The GR is "thicker" sounding.IMHO) Probably credited to the transformers in the GR. From what I hear though, the PR8 modded hangs right in there with some of the "mid-range $300/$800" pre's. Except you get 8 channels for the price of 1 or 2 channels.!..( YMMV).....

I TOTALLY agree

[Brad McGowan]

I've heard the modded unit in person. My buddy has it. Perhaps he will chime in. It sounds like a decent cleanish transformerless preamp with good transient response and overall frequency balance. It's probably very similar to the "Green Pre" that people build over at groupdiy.com. My friend uses it for all his drum tracks and comments that he is getting "punchier" sounds than he used to when using his Black Lion modded MOTU 828 MkII preamps.

In my opinion it sounds boring--it has no transformers to give it excitement. But it passes signal and doesn't screw it up in the process. So for whatever that is worth...

If you are on a budget and need something decent, then it's a total bargain.

Brad

[warhead]

OK I still haven't used the thing yet but I sold a bunch of SMPro PR8E units to a customer who is very happy with them. He actually called me to tell me they used ____ op-amp instead of _____ etc etc (the guy did his homework). The "E" stands for enhanced and is supposed to be a far improved version with different circuitry, power supply etc.

But I still haven't investigated WHAT is different.

War

[starscream2010]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

In my opinion it sounds boring--it has no transformers to give it excitement. But it passes signal and doesn't screw it up in the process. So for whatever that is worth...

If you are on a budget and need something decent, then it's a total bargain.

Brad

Very cool. That's what I was looking for... I just need something to "tide" me over until I afford some pre's with "excitment"

[tdawgg]

I bought a SM pro PRE modded by BL audio from a guy in Chicago from E-bay...I also have a Apogee mini-Me, and a Presonus Digimax FS. I run all this stuff into a m-Audio Project Mix, either via ADAT or SPDIF, and I clock it with a BL Audio microclock(which sounds as good as the clock on the Apogee, by the way). I did a "shootout" or sorts, plugging a carvin Bunny Brunnel model 5-string bass directly into all three pres, and the Apogee was the best sounding, hands down...but...the PR8E sounded better then the presonus, which i paid $600 for...I got the PR8E for $400, including shipping. I haven't had a chance to track drums with it yet, but I am running it in line-level to the project mix, which has no headroom, so I will most likely have to pad the inputs. the guy i got it from said he used it for drums with great results,as a front-end to a RME Fireface. the Apogee just sound "faster", with way more detail. I paid $800 for the Apogee, but I guess they dropped the price on them now....if you just want two great pre's with a great clock to run your Digi 002 or whatever, with good, useable compression, i would look for a used Apogee Mini-Me...if you need 8 mic pre's that sound pretty good, go with the black lion modded PR8E..I hope Matt starts modding the Project Mix soon! He sent an e-mail to me saying he has one, and he is considering some "easy" mods to them, so I am keeping my fingers crossed!

[XLR2XLR]

Here is what's inside the PR8E unmodified:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...9512841&size=l

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Here is what's inside the PR8E unmodified:

Flickr Photo Download: PCB

Hummm..4558 op-amps. That chip don't seem to be an "Enhancing" chip!..( YMMV) My understanding it's a very slow chip as far as today's standard chips are concerned! I remember having a Yamaha mixer some years ago which was loaded with this 4558 op-amp. I had Weyer/Smith Labs upgrade the Yamaha for me ( RIP..Tim Smith), with OP-275 op-amps. Man, what a difference in performance and tone that was!... ... Unfortunately, the Yamaha was destroyed in a fire!......

[Tomer1]

So im guessing the basic mod will be to replace the opamps and another more expensive mod will be adding output tranny's for some color.

[thermos]

I would love to see a pic of whats inside the black lion modded pr8.

[lancebug]

I have one and it is as described. Clear, reliable and un-exotic. I actually use it more than most of what I have as I keep it hooked up to a couple favorite mics all the time. I like what it does with a PL9 on a guitar cabinet. Nothing sounds bad through it and it doesn't color things un-intentionally.

[owel]

It's a 4580 chip from JRC (Japan Radio Corp). It's the same opamp chip inside a KRK RP8 monitor active filter board, BTW. http://www.fivefish.net/diy/rp8/page6.asp

Gain Bandwidth product is good, but Slew rate is slow compared to some newer opamp chips available now. Dual opamp configuration.

Changing those chips will probably bring some improvement to the sound.... maybe cleaner and clearer sounding.

You can try adding some Edcor transformers for some iron flavoring to muck it up a little.

FWIW, Mackie uses JRC456x series chips in their VLZ mixer.

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by thermos

I would love to see a pic of whats inside the black lion modded pr8.

+1

Any ideas what mods Black Lion do to this unit and what OpAmps they use?

[XLR2XLR]

And JRC2068's in the VLZ pro's XDR pre's which are excellent pre amps
which most people who slate them off on here do not seem to agree
with, more fool them is all I can say.