Bass DI box Vs micing an amp

[Nutmeg II.]

I usualy record both (the direct sound always could be used for reamping and fix things...).
The DI usualy gives you the bigger bandwith (top and bottom), but I usualy find a lot of beauty in a amped cab.
The cab usualy sounds less "dimensional" and a little more compressed. To me it's a very peasent character and it does help with players that have less control of their dynamics abit.

[Blindside]

Audix D6 is a great mic for bass (and bass drum). I used to just use a DI on bass until I got this mic. The DI alone usually left something to be desired, however when paired with a decent cab and the D6, it becomes quite desireable. It's all about the mix, though.

What's your budget for each? An old used Ampeg combo would be a good option with maybe a 12" speaker or two. If your budget is very limited for a DI, I used to use this little MXR M-80 Bass DI pedal. It's only like $125, and although it's not nearly the best sound, the 3-band eq isn't too bad and the "gate" works well for a slightly compressed sound. With a good bass and mixed with a mic-ed amp it will do the trick.

[Stoneroses6300]

Budget is around 200-300...I was checking out at GC today a used Ampeg BA 115 combo...It sounded great....$250...100 watts. 15 inch speaker...This may be a solution...I'm going to check it out on ebay....If I go direct also with the signal I will probably just right into the moded 002 pres since they have a decent bass responce after the mod...But I'm pretty sure the bulk of the sound will be from the amp...

[kingneeraj]

You can always reamp later

[AB3]

Have you tried the D6 on acoustic bass? Any comments?

Originally Posted by Blindside

Audix D6 is a great mic for bass (and bass drum). I used to just use a DI on bass until I got this mic. The DI alone usually left something to be desired, however when paired with a decent cab and the D6, it becomes quite desireable. It's all about the mix, though.

What's your budget for each? An old used Ampeg combo would be a good option with maybe a 12" speaker or two. If your budget is very limited for a DI, I used to use this little MXR M-80 Bass DI pedal. It's only like $125, and although it's not nearly the best sound, the 3-band eq isn't too bad and the "gate" works well for a slightly compressed sound. With a good bass and mixed with a mic-ed amp it will do the trick.

[popmann]

DI. If you're talking one or the other, it's not close, IMO.

[Stoneroses6300]

Originally Posted by popmann

DI. If you're talking one or the other, it's not close, IMO.

What would you suggest for a DI that comparable to the sound you would get out of an ampeg combo?

[egan]

Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300

What would you suggest for a DI that comparable to the sound you would get out of an ampeg combo?

The sansamp is nice for this.

[popmann]

SansAmp is a nice amp emu.

When I use it, I still mix it 80% DI and 20% amp on the blend knob. You can also get a throatier DI, like the Brick or UA610 or RedDI if you want a more tube distorted sound.

If you go the SansAmp route, the rack unit is better...has a midrange control. The pedal tends to get a bit mushy, IMO.

[wwittman]

i agree it's not close...

i almost always ONLY mic an amp

that's the way a bass guitar sounds best

[wwittman]

so now that you've heard virtually every opinion possible, how does this help you decide?

[Stoneroses6300]

ha...exactly...yeah, Im going to have to think about this....

Wittman...What makes you think that amp is much better than a di...


poppman- What makes you this the opposite?

[commaKaze]

I like going DI, and then micing the bass through a guitar amp, particularly my Mesa/Boogie .50 Caliber +, equipped with the Electro Voice 12" EVM 12L speaker. For a mic, I either use an EV RE-20, or sometimes an SM57 is just the thing, but you have your D6(never used one). You could also throw a condenser about 3 feet back or so, and treat it like you were recording guitar, then you'd have a lot of options for mixing. True most of your range will come from DI, so the mic'd amp will serve as another dimension, tone, for punch, grit etc...whatever you want it to be.

That method yields a very sweet sound. It's one of those little engineering secrets, which I'm sure a lot of folks around here are familiar with, perhaps even yourself that using a guitar amp to mic bass yields highly desirable, if not totally preferable results to a dedicated bass amp.

Since you're running the Black Lion 002 mod(which I have and know real well)don't underestimate its DI, as I've compared it to a lot of DIs I have, and have used at other studios on the artist side of the glass, and it's got a really fat, round, thick bass sound. Since you're stating you don't own a DI, or have a boo-teeky preamp with a DI insert, I don't think with a total budget of $200-$300 for both you're going to do better. Those Black Lion preamps are pretty amazing, fantastic bass response as you mentioned. The good DIs are least $400 and up.

So, maybe you needn't spend any money, of course it's a lot more fun to, but try using the BLA 200 DI, then mic'ing one of those guitar amps you already have, or maybe you have others that may be better suited or work better...try it out...The Fender Twin should actually sound pretty sick mic'ing a bass through it...

[Stoneroses6300]

Originally Posted by commaKaze

I like going DI, and then micing the bass through a guitar amp, particularly my Mesa/Boogie .50 Caliber +, equipped with the Electro Voice 12" EVM 12L speaker. For a mic, I either use an EV RE-20, or sometimes an SM57 is just the thing, but you have your D6(never used one). You could also throw a condenser about 3 feet back or so, and treat it like you were recording guitar, then you'd have a lot of options for mixing. True most of your range will come from DI, so the mic'd amp will serve as another dimension, tone, for punch, grit etc...whatever you want it to be.

That method yields a very sweet sound. It's one of those little engineering secrets, which I'm sure a lot of folks around here are familiar with, perhaps even yourself that using a guitar amp to mic bass yields highly desirable, if not totally preferable results to a dedicated bass amp.

Since you're running the Black Lion 002 mod(which I have and know real well)don't underestimate its DI, as I've compared it to a lot of DIs I have, and have used at other studios on the artist side of the glass, and it's got a really fat, round, thick bass sound. Since you're stating you don't own a DI, or have a boo-teeky preamp with a DI insert, I don't think with a total budget of $200-$300 for both you're going to do better. Those Black Lion preamps are pretty amazing, fantastic bass response as you mentioned. The good DIs are least $400 and up.

So, maybe you needn't spend any money, of course it's a lot more fun to, but try using the BLA 200 DI, then mic'ing one of those guitar amps you already have, or maybe you have others that may be better suited or work better...try it out...The Fender Twin should actually sound pretty sick mic'ing a bass through it...

Yeah, the twin sounds fantastic with bass going through it....THe only problem is, at those low registers it makes a pretty harsh buzz,crackling sound in the twin...Yeah, I was thinking of spliting the signal...One DI right through the BLA 002 and then 2 mics on a bass amp....The D6 and either an AKG solid Tube or 57 for the room mic...THe problem is, I dont have a bass amp....The twin probably would of worked great but it doesnt respond well and the low frequencys...at least mine...So thats why I was looking at that ampeg....

[Blindside]

Whoa....
Running a bass guitar through a guitar amp is a good way to ruin your amp. I'd hate to see you blow your Twin like that. Those noises you hear is just the beginning.
Ampeg makes good stuff and a little combo like the one you mentioned would totally serve your purpose. In fact, I've been looking for something just like that.

I've gone both ways as far as DI and mics go, but mixing the two is by far the best in the sense that if one sounds better, you can blend it accordingly.

Please don't use your guitar amp anymore, though. Like I said, if your budget is real tight, that little bass DI pedal works well and is cheap and with the D6 and Ampeg Combo would be nice. It'll be worth it, I promise.

[jhg]

I guess it depends on the desired bass tone. I'm a bass player, picky on tone. I've run a DI'ed bass track through a crap guit amp for the attack(shinybox ribbon), micing my sub(blue sky crossed at 80) for real low oomph(heil pr30) and gk mb120s with the new string filter on for the mids(soundelux 195) Sounded good. Was a good bass performance(not mine - obviously) Yeah, I used a crap guit amp. Don't F U a lovely sounding amp with bass duties. But really, yeah, the first time I heard a bass through a guit amp soley(which being a basser with appropriate amp handy didn't happen early on) I thought "Ooooooh, theres' the cutting through punk rock bass tone, duhhh" followed by "I'm an idiot for not realizing this" then "how to f*&K with this..?."




Well, not really an answer. An amp in the equation isn't a bad thing.

I do love throwing a mic on my upright and just playing too.

jhg

[Stefan Elmblad]

I would strongly suggest you record both DI and a miced amp. That way you have some choices at mixdown, and if you hate one signal or the other, at least you will have a preferred way of working next time. Since you're unsure now - do both.

[Nutmeg II.]

Originally Posted by popmann

SansAmp is a nice amp emu.

When I use it, I still mix it 80% DI and 20% amp on the blend knob. You can also get a throatier DI, like the Brick or UA610 or RedDI if you want a more tube distorted sound.

If you go the SansAmp route, the rack unit is better...has a midrange control. The pedal tends to get a bit mushy, IMO.

REDDI and tube distortion? DUDE! You must have a VERY activ bass! The REDDI is clean and clean and clean and maybe transparent, but clean.

[Nutmeg II.]

Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300

ha...exactly...yeah, Im going to have to think about this....

Wittman...What makes you think that amp is much better than a di...


poppman- What makes you this the opposite?

It's easy! Listen! Use your ears! Unless you are deaf (then use the meter)!

[Stoneroses6300]

I dont have a bass amp or stand alone di..So thats why I'm asking what I should try first

[Blindside]

Originally Posted by Stoneroses6300

I dont have a bass amp or stand alone di..So thats why I'm asking what I should try first

Get the Ampeg and MXR bass DI. I promise you won't be dissapointed. (see above)

[wwittman]

instruments were designed to be played through amps.

and they always sound better that way

it's PART of the sound of a bass guitar.


plus I always hear people going through these extreme perambulations to "get" a bass sound.

I plug into a good amp and adjust the tone controls.
stick a mic on it.
and there it is.

i rarely need to EQ it at all, including later in the mix.
maybe a dB or 2 at 5k for cut?

I think people make it complicated becasue they START with a thin, characterless, poopy signal that doesn't have anything of what a bss is SUPPOSED to have in it.

there is NO advantage to putting off decisions to the mix... becasue you cannot choose "wrong" now,
you simply choose the sounds overdubbed next to work WITH what's been already recorded.
That's just GOOD recording.

[TAVD]

If you F'd your tube amp by playing a bass through it than it wasn't up to spec to begin with. The speaker, OTOH, can easily be toasted, depending on what it is. commaKaze is certainly safe with a Boogie/ EVM 12L. I've tried a Boogie Mk1 with a high powered Fane for bass, no problems, although I didn't care for the tone.

FWIW, I like a miked B-15 but usually run a line out from the amp as well. You might try borrowing a bass cab for your twin, unplugging the other speakers. Kind of ghetto, sure, but many of the vintage Fender amps share similar circuits.

[Nosound]

Ampeg is the standard for bass amps and usually most like to DI and mic and blend the 2 together I use a Sansamp bass DI it's a little brittle if I add to much DI from it but after I mic the cab out I get a nice punchy bass track after I add a little compression to it. With hardly no eqing involved and I've learned that less eqing on the mix means better results on mix down. But I would definitely get a Ampeg bass amp maybe a Countryman bass DI or Sansamp or as other suggested maybe the higher end D.I.'s good luck on tracking your bass.

[J-dog]

wwittman: I tend to agree with you. I don't have your years of experience recording myself, but it seems that I've almost always ended up not using my direct signal, even when the mics I've used haven't been that great.

Just to benefit from your experience: what mic configuration (which mics and in which positions) do you think would work best for a 5-string bass when played through 1x15" + 2x12"? I'm looking for quite high attack and crunchy low end.

[mrbowes]

Little Labs IBP

Big sounding clean DI with a lot of other great functions (variable phase shift, reamp).

It's pricey ($4-500), but it's very much worth the cost of admission.

[Stoneroses6300]

Since I started the post I think I will chime in and let you know of my experiments.... It was a no brainer after a day of tracking bass...The DI on my BLA 002 dominated the miced bass amp...It sounded more realistic, more bigger, more smooth, just very clean and produced sounding..I could hear some of my sliding from my hands on the direct in with the 002...I miced the Ampeg with an audix d6, sm 57, and a tube mic...Nothing compared to the direct into the BLA 002....

Another thing. WHen I was at guitar center getting this bass amp which I am now going to return, I got a livewire solutions direct box with a ground switch (to split the signal)...I am absolutly keeping this...When I turn the ground switch thing on, I takes away all hiss even with loads of compression on the bass track and a high volume...

So the combo of this 40 dollar direct box and the bla 002 was perfect...The sound was seriously perfect...ALright, gotta go get my 275$ back for the ampeg amp...

[Nsound]

Originally Posted by Nutmeg II.

I usualy record both (the direct sound always could be used for reamping and fix things...).
The DI usualy gives you the bigger bandwith (top and bottom), but I usualy find a lot of beauty in a amped cab.
The cab usualy sounds less "dimensional" and a little more compressed. To me it's a very peasent character and it does help with players that have less control of their dynamics abit.

I love the Avalon 737 DI on bass!
But If I use it i can't send the instrument signal to the amplifier because the avalon have not intrument link!!
I would miking my bass cabinet, and mix the avanlon DI signal and the mic signal!!!
How can I do?? It's not possible???

Thanks!!

[Silent Sound]

There are a couple of ways to do this. You can use a Y splitter, to send the signal to both the preamp and the bass cabinet at the same time. You can get a splitter box like this one:

Buy Lehle P-Split Splitter Guitar Pedal | Router, Signal Path & Pedal Tuner | Musician's Friend

Or you could check the bass amp to see if it has a direct line out or a recording out. Just make sure it's not one the outs that's supposed to go to the speakers!

Lastly, you could just record the bass running through the preamp. Then, after you've recorded the preamp, reamp it through the bass amp and record your cabinet to another track.