Mackie Control Universal vs. Digidesign Control 24?

[777]

Mackie Control Universal vs. Digidesign Control 24?

What do you people think? Can the Control 24 work with other software other than Pro Tools?

A 777 Subject.

[prismtheory]

Originally Posted by 777

Mackie Control Universal vs. Digidesign Control 24?

What do you people think? Can the Control 24 work with other software other than Pro Tools?

A 777 Subject.

I have a mackie control set up at my home studio. I like it. It speeds up my work flow, which is the point. I would like to have a control 24...only because of the integeration features being more suited to my Pro Tools system. I would never use the garbage master section or the crappy mic pres in it (unless I didn't have anything left). It is a solid unit. I've heard a lot of peers have trouble with the fader motors going out. I don't remember the cause (power supply?).

Mackie control has little ideosyncrasies that you have to learn to deal with. Sometimes faders don't calibrate propery...trying to edit plugins in HUI mode is slower than using a mouse....etc.etc.

Control 24 feels more pro and I think you would use the mouse even less with it once comfortable.

Control 24 works with Pro Tools only...as does all digidesign hardware.

Mackie Control works with almost everything. ALMOST

[BCains]

It all depends, do you need the monitoring system and pres in the C|24?
Are you looking at getting the mackie with extenders (say up to 24 faders)?
I recently picked up the command 8, and is very easily to flick through the group
of 8 faders. Personally I would compare the mackie more to the command 8.

I know the mackie intergates with software but i'm pretty sure the command 8
or control 24 works won't with other software, i could be wrong thou.

[777]

Don't need a monitor section. I have a Mackie Big Knob. Don't need mic pre's. I have at least 16 of those. So it comes down to fader/editing controls. The Control 24 seems a little wide which might cause me to have to move out of my monitoring sweet spot. The Mackie does have calibration problems, & the Control 24 does have fader, monitor section, & power supply problems. I've heard this so many times. So which is the better all around not needing pre's, or monitor control you people's opinion?

A 777 Subject.

[BCains]

i was originally looking at the mackie with 1-2 extenders, this was before
i checked out the command 8. its a great size doesnt take up alot of room,
only have eight faders but my pressing the "Right Button" it goes to the next
set of eight - which originally i didnt know it did that. great for my situation because
pro tools is the only software i use, if you are looking at running pt and logic or
something else you're best to go with the mackie. Also the mackie plug ins can only be
addressed with the 8 knobs on the main unit, double check that thou.

beck.

[Geert van den Berg]

I've used both extensively...

The C24 is MUCH better IMHO! It can interface only with Pro Tools, but if that's what you use then there's no contest.

Yes there are some drawbacks, there've been bad powersupplies, it sometimes loses it's ethernet connection, but that shouldn't hold you back...

The Mackie is just not complete with PT, you can only use it in HUI mode via MIDI, while the C24 goes over ethernet. The MCU is crippled in operation, you cannot flip the aux sends to the faders, which the MCU can do in its other modes, but then it won't work with PT. Also controlling the plugin parameters on the MCU is no joy and neither is panning. Those podmeters really SUCK! The fader of the MCU have a nice feel to them, but I've seen some of them malfunction after only a short use. And as another poster said above, plugin parameters don't spread over to MCU extenders and more importantly neither do aux sends... only faders and pans on extenders!

The panners/podmeters on the C24 are much better, they are of the nasty clicking kind, but it's not as bad as the clicking pods on the v1 Pro Controls... it's a lighter click and very usable both for panning and for controlling plugins!

[redddog]

If you have pres and a monitoring monitoring section and DON'T use PT, the MCU is more than what you would need. The fact is that anything you use will have some kind of drawback. The one drawback that I can think of in this situation would be the $5500 MORE you would be dumping on a control surface (loaded with pres that you won't use) that only gave you a slight improvement in functionality. It seems like a no-brainer to me. But then, I have been known to do some really stupid things so don't go by me...

[Geert van den Berg]

Offcourse everything will have drawbacks and the C24 is still relatively expensive...

I agree that if you don't use PT, the MCU is not a bad option, IF you intend to only use its faders! The rest (panners/plugin controls) feels crappy IMHO...

But there aren't many other good options out there, that's still a hole in the market IMHO...

[777]

Geert van den Berg,

I have clients that use Logic Pro as a mainstay for work prior to traditional tracking/editing/mixing. When they decide to do the serious tracking/editing/mixing then they jump in to Pro Tools land. So are you saying that if you have to work with Pro Tools, & other software then the Mackie Control Universal is better, or no.

A 777 Subject.

[777]

If you all would'nt mind maybe we could continue this over here:




http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=83120



A 777 Subject.

[Geert van den Berg]

What I am saying is that you shouldn't confuse spec's on paper against reallife use... and believe me I have used both heavily...

On paper the MCU looks really good, but the knobs suck IMHO, so how much do you think that you're actually gonna use them?! You'll be doing those duties by mouse...

I saw in your other post that you expanded the comparision by adding a C4, well I just don't like those Vpots so I'd be even more irritated I think, though you'd gain a lot in functionality in conjunction with MIDI hardware and with Logic as well, but not when using PT because it's not really supported...

If you'd want to control more software with just one controller there's no contest because you can't use the C24 with other software... the name of the Mackie is not a coincidence, it works with nearly everything. And it's not bad when used with other software than PT. I believe in its own controller mode, not hui, you can flip the aux sends to the faders... so this give you fades and auxes on the faders, making it very workable...

If your clients don't really need the controller and they export their stuff for you to mix in PT and you are very heavy into mixing then I'd opt for the C24 or a Pro Control (make sure it's v2 without the clicking pots in the parameter/insert section) with an extender... depending on budget...

[redddog]

Depending on your budget!?

That means "if you don't mind dumping $6000 on a board that will only give you a better feeling knob."

I know that there's a place for those digi boards, but the cost, to me just does not justify them.

[777]

Geert van den Berg, & All


Quote:

The C24 is MUCH better IMHO! It can interface only with Pro Tools, but if that's what you use then there's no contest.

Yes there are some drawbacks, there've been bad powersupplies, it sometimes loses it's ethernet connection, but that shouldn't hold you back...

The Mackie is just not complete with PT, you can only use it in HUI mode via MIDI, while the C24 goes over ethernet. The MCU is crippled in operation, you cannot flip the aux sends to the faders, which the MCU can do in its other modes, but then it won't work with PT. Also controlling the plugin parameters on the MCU is no joy and neither is panning. Those podmeters really SUCK! The fader of the MCU have a nice feel to them, but I've seen some of them malfunction after only a short use. And as another poster said above, plugin parameters don't spread over to MCU extenders and more importantly neither do aux sends... only faders and pans on extenders!

The panners/podmeters on the C24 are much better, they are of the nasty clicking kind, but it's not as bad as the clicking pods on the v1 Pro Controls... it's a lighter click and very usable both for panning and for controlling plugins!


-Geert van den Berg
Mac Moderator



This is bad information. The Mackie Control Universal, 'can' adjust send levels via the faders. There is a thing called 'flip' mode you can activate that will send the send faders to the channel faders. When in send mode select the send then hold down the send button while hitting the 'shift' button that is in the send select area, & the moving faders will shift to the send levels. You can write, touch, & otherwise the send levels just as you would channel levels with the moving faders.

Also the pan knobs on the MCU may not feel that good to you but they are pretty smooth to me, & other people as much as those knobs, & the HUI protocol allow vs. the detented/clicking knobs you were complaining about on the Control 24, or Pro Control(according to your reporting). Continuous should give you more control. In that area the MCU performs more closer to a D Command, or D Control than the Pro Control, or Control 24 which actually causes the MCU to be percieved as better. It's like the MCU is the step between the Pro Control/Control 24, & the D Command/D Control which makes the MCU not only better in that area than the Pro Control, or Control 24 but it's cheaper than the Control 24, or Pro Control. Also plugins parameters are not meant to extend to MCU extenders. That's what Mackie produced the C4 to do.



A 777 Subject.

[redddog]

777,

Yes. I thought you could do that. I've never used them that way but I remember that I accidentally hit that flip button once and the faders did that. Took me forever to figure out how to get it back.

I've never used a Control 24 but there's been very little that I haven't been able to configure on that MCU. And I don't find the rotary encoders to be cheap at all.

My .02.

I'll leave it alone, though.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by 777

This is bad information. The Mackie Control Universal, 'can' adjust send levels via the faders. There is a thing called 'flip' mode you can activate that will send the send faders to the channel faders.

Flip doesn't work in HUI mode in conjuction with PT and don't try to tell me otherwise because I have been fighting with this 'piece of crap' last week... (our studio has 3, and we've got a Pro Control, with dreaded clicking parameter section, which I also loathe).

And yes the quality of the pots is very important, I am doing post and I am panning and adjusting aux automation all day long...

If you already made up your mind, then why bothering people into a discussion?

[777]

Quote:


"Flip doesn't work in HUI mode in conjuction with PT and don't try to tell me otherwise because I have been fighting with this 'piece of crap' last week... (our studio has 3).

If you already made up your mind, then why bothering people into a discussion?"

-Geert van den Berg
Mac Moderator




Yes it does work. How do I know. I just tried it on my friends MCU. He's got a Pro Tools HD set up but he's still only running 6.9.2. I hit the send button. Then I chose which send I wanted(send A). Then I held down the send button, & hit the shift button which is next to the 5 send buttons(a thru e), & the faders flipped. And, on top of that it's listed in Digidesign's MIDI control surface manual. Now don't tell me that Digidesign is wrong about this too.

A 777 Subject.


P.S.: Don't get upset. I'm only telling the truth. Don't believe me. Download this, & read it:

http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor...uide_25939.pdf


The directions are on page 56. Later.

[Geert van den Berg]

If you're right, you've made my day... I'll try it immediately tomorrow!

And if it works I am happily agreeing that I am wrong...

I searched for that everywhere and in all the documentation that I have it was listed nowhere and I tried many things! Talking about intuitive...

Do you happen to know also how to put the auxes on the extenders? And make them flip along?

[777]

Geert van den Berg,

Let me know how it all works out.

A 777 Subject.

[jindrich]

hey is the mackie MCU still avalaible?
im located in europe, and i cannot find it anywhere, that's been for months.

my local reseller says mackie is in (economic) trouble, and regarding the MCU that they run out of units and cannot find a manufacturer to build it to the same specs anymore, or that some piece is missing etc.

any true in that? where can i buy a new MCU?

[BCains]

Is the complete opposite here. They can't keep them on the shelves long enough
for people to try out. Where in europe are you?

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by 777

Let me know how it all works out.

I stand corrected, and I am happy about that because this will gain me some extra speed while mixing with the MCU!

It works as you said... though it's a bit odd that this info has to come from the 'legacy controller guide' instead of the MCU PT manual. I know that on the regular MCU overlay there's a button called flip, which is missing on the PT overlay and after trying several commands I gave up on it.

What still remains is that this only works on the main unit, the extenders don't work along, because they're not connected to the main unit.

I still don't agree with your vision that this thing is on the middle ground between the C24/Pro Control and the Icon's. Have you ever used any of those? The cheaper Digidesign controllers might not have the highest build quality and components, but the MCU is still Fisher Price compared to them...

Does that justify the insane prices? Maybe not, but in a studio where money is made it's usually not such of a big deal if it'll give lesser frustration and a more fluid mix experience.

Maybe I'll have to excuse myself for giving the MCU so much slack, it's just that this thing has been holding me back a bit. For music I think it might be less of a problem, as you're fine-tuning your 3 minute song, but while doing post-production where the program material is longer and you're mixing almost like a live performance, it does not cut it IMHO.

[777]

Geert van den Berg,

Glad to see that it has all worked out for you. And, maybe you're right about the MCU by itself not being the middle ground between an Icon, & a Control 24 but if you add in the C4, MCU XT's along with the main MCU unit I think it does create the middle ground I was speaking of before. The C4 opens up a whole new world. Also I've used the Icon before. To me the knobs on the MCU, & C4 are easier to turn. The main thing about the Icon's knobs that's good is that they are touch sensitive, & rock solid steady for a knob although even those with a heavy handed speed/power user could have to be replaced more often because the height of them offsets their stability vs. the more deeply seated C4, & MCU knobs. Either one could break if abused. The MCU does have the 'plastic' look, & feel but besides that they are 'highly' functional, & get the job done. All of these controllers take some getting used to.

A 777 Subject.

[Geert van den Berg]

the Icon has nice smooth pots IMHO, which don't click...

What does the C4 add with PT?? I thought it was not supported (yet)?

[Andrew Kinsey]

I would suggest you have a look at the JL Cooper MCS 3000 Series controllers,
They are very heavily upgradable, more so than the Mackie or Digidesign units, and also feature better surround surround capabilities.

Check out the following links for more info and pictures.

http://www.jlcooper.com/pages/controllers.html
http://www.soundtools.co.uk/Products...ollers/DAW.htm

[klaukholm]

A major drawback is the lack of an LCD scribble strip like that of both the Mackie and the C24.

[777]

Geert van den Berg,

That's true that the C4 is'nt supported via Pro Tools 'yet'. Mackie is waiting on Digidesign for the 'code'. But, I'd expect it, & in the not too distant future. I don't think Digidesign will let Logic Pro get too far ahead of Pro Tools in any area before they latch in. Look at the number of features that Logic has had that Digidesign has implemented similarly into Pro Tools. I feel quite confident in this area. Why because there are 'too' many Pro Tools users out there that make use of the HUI format. Based upon Digidesign's history they won't turn their back on that segment of users. Also 32 knobs on the C4 are irresistable to any type of user that wants to control a DAW software program. To no implement this would be a disservice.

A 777 Subject.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kinsey

I would suggest you have a look at the JL Cooper MCS 3000 Series controllers,
They are very heavily upgradable, more so than the Mackie or Digidesign units, and also feature better surround surround capabilities.

Check out the following links for more info and pictures.

http://www.jlcooper.com/pages/controllers.html
http://www.soundtools.co.uk/Products...ollers/DAW.htm

Originally Posted by klaukholm

A major drawback is the lack of an LCD scribble strip like that of both the Mackie and the C24.

I know the JLCooper. I've tested it when my former company was shopping around for controllers... The build quality is great, but it doesn't have panners as standard and it's quite pricey!

Especially if you want to expand it and you'll want to do that because you can get lcd scribblestrips and panners for it... But I have to agree that this is one of the best 3rd party controllers out there...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by 777

Look at the number of features that Logic has had that Digidesign has implemented similarly into Pro Tools..

Which ones? I think it's the other way around as far as audio is concerned.

For MIDI Logic is more sophisticated, but I am not a heavy MIDI user, if I have to use it I prefer the simplicity of PT. Record, edit, mix, I don't need an enviroment with arpeggiators and such... Audio editting is great in PT and they've made MIDI editting as simple as the audio editting and very similar.

Can you tell me what it is that a heavy MIDI user make prefer Logic? The Score editor?

[777]

Geert van den Berg,

Groove templates, the demix function(separate by note/midi channel), & etc.. Things that are in most midi app's with extensive midi implementation have had for years. I was'nt talking so much about audio as far as Pro Tools implementing things from Logic. Mostly midi. Although Pro Tools did borrow the extended number of aux sends from Logic. Used to be 5 in Pro Tools. Now it's 10. Pro Tools may follow Logic again with increased number of inserts as well.

A 777 Subject.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Especially if you want to expand it and you'll want to do that because you can get lcd scribblestrips and panners for it... But I have to agree that this is one of the best 3rd party controllers out there...

Can you assign track names and have them displayed on the MCS bridge?