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KrisM
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#1
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Lives for gear
 
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I have a serious question about this forum

I'm sorry, but I have to troll/be a dick/whatever for a moment. I've been curious for a while, but there's a thread about which $1500 vocal mic that finally tipped me over the edge. Nothing personal against the OP at all; I didn't want to derail their thread with this. Nothing against the posters of the other threads referenced, either.

There are plenty of threads around here with cheap/inexpensive gear of various uses. Mics, pres, mixers, instruments, techniques, etc.

But then there are threads here that make my mind go

what exactly is 'low end' about a $1500 mic?

yes there are mics costing more, even a lot more, but where does the line get drawn?? I've seen threads about $1500 mics, $3500 mixers, $600 mods to a $1000 interface, $2500 synths, $10,000 studio purchases, asking about Apogee Quartets...

How is any of this stuff 'low end'?? I grew up poor, so maybe my concept of 'low end' differs from most people's or something. I know this is Gearslutz and all, but really? What's the limit? Is it anything a "big boy pro studio" wouldn't use is "low end"? Anything not considered boutique? I'm not saying people need to use whatever cheap crap they can get their hands on, I just really want to know. Are my conceptions of 'low end' just really out of touch? Nobody says a word to these people other than to help them out, which is great, I have no problems with that. I just want to understand the mentality of this board. Some threads are made by newbies, so that's understandable in a way, but some aren't.

I'm attracted to the Low End Theory board because I like "bang for the buck" and a "skills before frills" approach, making what you have work for you, DIY ethic, etc. If my preconceptions of this are just out of whack, I'll just pretend not to notice

Anyway, /end rant
#2
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
  #2
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You have some valid points. In some cases things have gotten out of hand.
#3
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
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Low/High end gets kinda grey. There should prob be a mid-level board. I could see it being:

Low End - anywhere from phone/laptop built-in mic recording up to a cheaper interface (<$500)with some cheaper mics or DI, done in a bedroom or whatever

Mid-Level/Project Studio, a little larger/more interface, a few better mics, acoustic treatment, some outboard, maybe a couple high-end pieces up to maybe a smaller PTHD ITB rig

High End - Consoles, racks of outboard, buildings built from the ground up for acoustics, collections of vintage gear, etc.

Of course, when it comes down to it, much of the recording methodology is the same no matter what the level.
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#4
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
  #4
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I agree that it would make sense to have a "mid-range" forum. But a lot of the gear discussed here, in the grand scheme of things, is low-end.
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#5
14th March 2013
Old 14th March 2013
  #5
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Problem with mics as an example is that, besides uber-rare vintage stuff, you can only go so high with them if you plan on selling in any sort of quantity at all: the basic design hasn't really changed in the last 75 years and besides ribbons going out a fashion for a while, advances in technology just keep getting better and better, boutique mic vendors more and more numerous, keeping their overhead low and building by hand, selling direct online (something unheard of before), etc. just means that there's a lot of parity between mics in the last 10-15 years.

At one point not that long ago, you couldn't even get a real LDC for under a grand. Then Audio Technica kind of broke the mold and now you'll see those mics along side Neumanns and Telefunken mics costing 10s of thousands at your typical studio environment.

Inevitably that stuff is going to trickle down to the home/hobby/project studio market (which itself has pretty much taken over the mindshare of the majority of manufacturers as more and more large studios cease operations).

So long story short, while the high-end is narrowing, the low-end is expanding.
#6
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #6
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This is a subject I've been debating in my own head for a while ... glad to see it come to light.

I started out my home/project studio with gear all under a grand, most under $500. I was getting good results, but knew that certain pieces, like interface and channel strip could make a big difference ... and my synths too, all under a grand.

This year I had a good business year and decided to upgrade my studio. I purchased a Steinberg MR816CSX. Certainly not high end in cost (under $1000), but in the higher end as far as the quality it's pre's/interface. Then I purchased a Roland Jupiter 50 (hair under $2000) ... recently I added a Grace Designs M103 channel strip (almost $2000). I use UA plug-ins for the quality they provide to my mixes ... because I can't afford the "real things".

My point being, I feel stuck in the middle ... my studio is no longer "low end", nor do I feel I've hit the "high end" mark.

There must be more Gearslutz out there like me ... we need a middle ground. Maybe geared specifically to home/project studios. Maybe set more defined parameters for what "high end" and "low end" are, and start a "middle ground" forum.

Just my $.02
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#7
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #7
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The ones that come across this way are generally rank amatures that don't have a pot to piss in themselves. TLM 103 is not a low end mic. KM 184 is not a low end mic. Royer R121 is not a low end mic. .... Many more.
#8
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #8
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The bit that gets me is that it says 'theory' at the end which I would of thought refers to technique's and exchanging tips on how to do things with low end gear and set up etc, not actually asking what gear to get.
#9
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbra View Post
My point being, I feel stuck in the middle ... my studio is no longer "low end", nor do I feel I've hit the "high end" mark.
Hang out in the high end forum long enough, and I'm sure there are cats there who'll help you sort that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyD View Post
The bit that gets me is that it says 'theory' at the end which I would of thought refers to technique's and exchanging tips on how to do things with low end gear and set up etc, not actually asking what gear to get.
Or is could be a reference to the A Tribe Called Quest record. A play on words, so to speak. (wink wink)


As for the $1500 mic thread - dude seems to be serious, which means he just started the thread in the wrong forum. Should get moved tomorrow. Most times, when this kind of thing happens, it's guys who are bored or just want to talk about something. "Hey, I can't decide which Marshall stack to buy. I need to get 7 of them, 'cause my band is going on a european tour in 3 weeks. Help me decide."

Like I said, hang out in the high end forum long enough, and it becomes pretty obvious if and when your Qs belong there, or elsewhere.
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#10
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #10
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbra
My point being, I feel stuck in the middle ... my studio is no longer "low end", nor do I feel I've hit the "high end" mark.
Quote:
Hang out in the high end forum long enough, and I'm sure there are cats there who'll help you sort that out.
Hey, that's how I got stuck in the middle in the first place.
#11
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #11
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I put a question about Event Opal vs Focal Twin in the low end section recently and was told it would be a better question to ask in high end, but a similar question about API vs A Designs a couple of months back was berated and suggested I ask in low end.

Just put it where you want and mentally filter out the bullshit.
#12
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #12
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I hear your concern. Not unlike my utter dismay at the amount of noob questions NOT in the noob forum. Particularly scary is the noon questions about which $5k box to add to their already $50k in gear that they frankly don't know how to properly patch together.

This place has slid far downhill over the last few years. I know many who have been run off by the disrespect and idiocy. I wonder why I return sometimes. This may not be in the plan for the "back nine". I've tried to help here and elsewhere for years...I don't feel like I'm making a dent. People going down known wrong roads. Anonymous posters coming behind any rec I make with the opposite based solely on "what the read"...it's becoming like a loud feedback loop.
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#13
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #13
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Don't look for specific lines between high and low end. The only thing you have to do is develop a bit of a thick skin about people who think the harsher the opinion, the more valid it is. In time, you'll be able to sort out the few helpful posts through the noise. Classifications tend to be wrong-headed in a general respect. "Do you play rock or do you play pop?" "You're not really a punk!" etc. etc. Just ignore and move on. If something's pissing you off, shrug it off.
#14
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #14
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What about the "so much gear, so little time" forum?
#15
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osumosan View Post
Don't look for specific lines between high and low end. The only thing you have to do is develop a bit of a thick skin about people who think the harsher the opinion, the more valid it is. In time, you'll be able to sort out the few helpful posts through the noise. ...Just ignore and move on.

put up a noise gate & appreciate the useful bits!
#16
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevil View Post

put up a noise gate & appreciate the useful bits!
Which low end noise gate do you recommend for under $2500?
#17
15th March 2013
Old 15th March 2013
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumq View Post
Which low end noise gate do you recommend for under $2500?
you're going to need 8 each of both of these & then set them up in series alternating from one to the other, to make sure nothing harsh gets thru.



also you're going to need to rig it up with these cables.

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#18
16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevil View Post
you're going to need 8 each of both of these & then set them up in series alternating from one to the other, to make sure nothing harsh gets thru.



also you're going to need to rig it up with these cables.

Eliminate the problem at the source. Murder the offending board member.
#19
16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
  #19
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OP - HIGH end is simple. $$ is no object to attain the last 2-5% in performance. If you can't hang with that, or if it's not your driving goal to reach that last 2-5%, you're in the wrong place.

Low End is a lot less defined, and really can be anything. It's not simply $$ driven. For instance an SM57 is "low end" financially, but very high end when used with high end gear - IMO, it qualifies for either high or low end applications.

Bottom line, don't take it so literal, unless you're in the high end forum. The reality is, there needed to be a forum where attaining the last few percentage points is worth ANY amount of money for some. That's where the high end cats hang out.

Then, there needs to be a place for $$$ and compromise need to be balanced - that's "low end" and it has a WIDE range and scope.

Even with my definitions, I know there are a lot of threads that fall out of the boundries.

Take it for what it's worth. For some $1500 IS ABSOLUTELY a low end mic. For others, a $500 mic is high end. Go figure.....
#20
16th March 2013
Old 16th March 2013
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisM View Post
I have a serious question about this forum
Good luck with getting serious answers.
#21
17th March 2013
Old 17th March 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
This place has slid far downhill over the last few years. I know many who have been run off by the disrespect and idiocy.
Just curious, where did/do some of the knowledgeable 'cognoscenti' run off to?

TGP is probably at about the same level as GS with a heavy mix of noobs with a handful of truly knowledgeable/helpful individuals, but TGP is much more guitar oriented and very light on useful recording info re: gear.

I guess if it was advertised where serious brainiacs hung out to discuss all manner of gear, the place would be turned into a ghetto in a matter of days.

Really dislike stuff like the ultimate loopback thread getting locked and folks running off due to trolls and idiocy.
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