Common "Home Recording" mistakes

[natpub]

We got some time under our belt these days recording at the homestead, as well as for larger labels at commercial studios. Thought I would start a thread where anyone can share things they commonly hear mistaken or weak on recordings made by newer engineers and home enthusiasts.

My contribution is tuning and intonation!

Very few players who come to you will have any idea how outrageously critical precise tunining and intonation are. Even with very low-grade guitar tuners like the handy Korgs or Rolands are made for quick stage use, and not ideal for recording, but they will show you the problem quickly.

Record a track with guitar that is, say, a 30 second segment, after tuning as carefully as you can. Check the tune again immediately after. Chances are big that even a cheap tuner will show modest changes. Those changes add up, big time!

A strobe-type tuner like a Peterson or Conn will make the problem even more clear, and is far more desireable for recording use. Investing in a strobe tuner is right up there with room treatment as priority when setting up a home shop.

Another test, have the guitarist sit straight up and hold the guitar in a steady proper position right after tuning. Have him/her hit one sustained note, then lower the headstock of the guitar towards the floor. You will hear the note actually bend, as the headstock drags the strings via gravity.

Yet another test, play one open lower string, which will show the effect more clearly. While the string sustains, take your finger and do a very rapid slide from the 1st fret to the 12th, and back down to the open string. Do this while watching a tuner. You will see that the friction of your rip-riff causes the string to heat up, and change the pitch. As the string cools, it will return to normal.

Thirdly, play any single fretted note, then simply press harder. On any fretted instrument, you can easily bend notes by pressing. Good players can modify the ringing of 5ths and even compound chords by varying the pressure of their fingers. The best players do this simply by instinct and possibly have no idea that they do it. Like they say, Hendix could probably make a $20 guitar sound great. Sometimes, for certain kinds of powerchord situations, it is better to just have the musician play roots and 5ths only, as temperment situations make 3rds somewhat sketchy when you want that wall of sound.

Obviously, one cannot control all these variables, unless you happen to be Mutt and got the patience to multitrack single notes for chords! Still, one will see experienced studio musicians tend to sit fairly still and upright, holding their axe properly in a pretty steady way. Definately not how Keith Richards would do it, but even he knows the trade offs, and what you see in the movies isnt always what the producer allowed to go on tape.

Lastly, intonation. Getting fretted instruments properly set up, with new strings, thoroughly stretched out, is crucial. Fretted 12th fret notes must match the harmonic played at the same position exactly! Otherwise, pretty much no amount of tuning, pressure variation, or autotune, will save your tracks from sour notes, chords, and overdubbing nightmares.

Take time during initial tracking to have well set-up instruments, done by a professional, change strings often, even for every song (Ive seen it done for every few takes, but that gets rediculous), and stretch them thoroughly. Some instruments are beyond setting up, due to warping and poor fret-work, so dont be beyond advising your customers to borrow something else. Finally, tune up constantly, pretty much between every single take it should be checked. Seems like a hassle, yeah, but well worth it in the end.


OK, any other tips?


KT

[also note, humidity, heating, and air-con will affect tuning in radical ways. try to keep such things as constant as possible, once you begin hitting tape]

[djui5]

Crossfading edits! Huge problem, especially for a mixer. I get files with cracks and pops, and have to try to edit them out. Not only does it take forever, but it would only take the recorded a few seconds time to make life much easier on everyone. Sometimes I can't fix them...and they stay in the audio. Lovely

Another thing is mic phase, especially on drums and disorted guitars. Check your mic phase!

Last big issue is overcompressing things. Take it easy with those comps..haha.

[espasonico]

the timing in the playing is as bad as the tunning playing. One thing is groove and the other is...

I find a lot of times that people record too hot. They think that they need to reach 0dbfs tutt

Other problem I find is that people don´t get the sounds while listening to the playback. It´s easier to move the mic or change the pick that trying to eq that.

Bad arrengment is also a big problem. Maybe one of the biggest.

[Mike Douaire]

How about tuning them toms on a drumkit? That makes a world of difference. If you can actually tune to the key of the song, especially having them tuned diatonically differently (3rd, 5th, 7th) of the songs make a very very cool sound, especially with a very responsive drummer. I definitely agree with the tuning and intonation on guitars. As a guitarist, it always bugs me to have guitars with intonation problems. You can track the tone all you want but itll still sound like shit in the end.

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by natpub

Record a track with guitar that is, say, a 30 second segment, after tuning as carefully as you can. Check the tune again immediately after. Chances are big that even a cheap tuner will show modest changes. Those changes add up, big time!

All that shows is that the instrument isn't holding its tuning. I don't understand how a better tuner solves this.

[natpub]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

All that shows is that the instrument isn't holding its tuning. I don't understand how a better tuner solves this.

No one is saying a better tuner would make an instrument hold tune--that would be bizzare indeed!

[idylldon]

Originally Posted by natpub

Lastly, intonation. Getting fretted instruments properly set up, with new strings, thoroughly stretched out, is crucial. Fretted 12th fret notes must match the harmonic played at the same position exactly! Otherwise, pretty much no amount of tuning, pressure variation, or autotune, will save your tracks from sour notes, chords, and overdubbing nightmares.

I've been playing guitar for about 40 years now and thought I had it all figured out until a Nashville session guy taught me a better way to tune my guitars:

Low E -- tune using third fret, G
A -- tune using third fret, C
D -- tune using third fret, F
G -- tune using second fret, A
B -- tune using third fret, D
E -- tune using third fret, G

Been doing it this way for a few years now and it works really well, much better than using open strings. Everyone I've shown it to has been an instant convert. Of course, I always fine tune to predominant chords in a song and try to get all of them ringing as true as possible, but the above technique usually works well right out of the gate.

I also don't set my intonation using open strings and the 12th-fret harmonic unless I'm just comping open position "cowboy" chords. I just compare the fretted notes in the tuning technique above to the "fretted" octave. Yes, you have to use a light touch of you'll pull the string too sharp and get an inaccurate reading, but it's pretty easy to get it right. I find this much more pleasing to the ear as most often I'm not playing in open positions and this seems to make the closed positions more in tune all along the neck without affecting the open chords too much at all.

Give it a try as you just might like what you hear.

BTW, the biggest problem I find with guitars that are brought to me for a setup is an improperly cut nut. Usually the slots are cut too high, which results in the strings being too high, so when you play an open chord it pulls slightly sharp--sometimes more than slightly sharp.

As always, YMMV.

Cheers,
--
Don

[natpub]

very cool Don, definately gonna try that

another thing interesting is that Buzz Feinten thing, or whatever it is called---a couple people round here seem to know a bit about it

[moon_unit]

For beginners, I think it's all about gain staging.

Usually, there's somewhere in the signal path that something is either clipping or just noisy due to less-than-optimal gain.

Either that, or there's a loss of fidelity due to neglect of impedence matching. Like you'll have an instrument-level signal going to a line-level source, or an unbalanced connection running in to a balanced input, etc. etc. etc. etc.

After that, I just think that, in general, people error due to the fact that they're trying to do too many different things at once. Trying to perform on the record, engineer it, write the songs, and even design the cover art. Hell, if they could, I swear some guys would even manufacture the disks ... and cut down the trees used to make the paper for the CD sleeves if they could.

"Hmmm. Lemme' see. What else can I do?" What the holy hell is left? You're already you're own tour manager, your own booking agent, and your own promoter.

Stick to what you're good at and get help on the rest, for cryin' out loud.

[warhead]

Poorly treated (if at all) rooms

Applying effects (can't strike a balance with them)

Sticking mics on things that haven't been prepared to record (tuned, heads changed, buzzes and sounds stopped, etc)

Close mic'ing everything (can be a plus in a crap room)

Not being able to think ahead in a project (just sticking mics on stuff regardless of how much space the source may require later, or bad mic selection in context to the final mix)

Production value added (either not enough or too much)

It should be noted that every single person on Gearslutz either IS now or WAS guilty of all of these things at the beginning of their journey so this is not a slam..just pointing out typical overlooked things by beginners. I'm way ahead of many on the curve and WAY BEHIND others!!!

War

[davemc]

Been running a small home recording course.
Three major groups of problems recording wise I see.
1) How the room sounds: They just set the speakers up next to the desk and put a mic in front of the source and go. They do not spend any time finding the best spot for things.
2) Gain staging: As said they record way to hot or to soft, or normalise everything and then super boost plugins etc etc. Have no idea of -10 and +4db inputs.
3) No vision: They record down one instrument and then move to the next. They normally do not even get a good sound out of the source to start with, then just chuck a mic up or two with no understanding of phase. Record that down and try to fix it later in the mix. As they think they can slap a plugin on it later to fix the difference in tone.

I could also say the net is a wonderful place for information, although sometimes on forums you have the blind leading the blind off a cliff.

[Bob Olhsson]

Moving the mouse before moving the mikes!

The most common mistake by far is using way way too much signal processing.

[RobR]

The most common home recording mistake is recording at home.

..........

But, seriously: accoustics.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by natpub

We got some time under our belt these days recording at the homestead, as well as for larger labels at commercial studios. Thought I would start a thread where anyone can share things they commonly hear mistaken or weak on recordings made by newer engineers and home enthusiasts.

My contribution is tuning and intonation!

Very few players who come to you will have any idea how outrageously critical precise tunining and intonation are. Even with very low-grade guitar tuners like the handy Korgs or Rolands are made for quick stage use, and not ideal for recording, but they will show you the problem quickly.

Record a track with guitar that is, say, a 30 second segment, after tuning as carefully as you can. Check the tune again immediately after. Chances are big that even a cheap tuner will show modest changes. Those changes add up, big time!

A strobe-type tuner like a Peterson or Conn will make the problem even more clear, and is far more desireable for recording use. Investing in a strobe tuner is right up there with room treatment as priority when setting up a home shop.

Another test, have the guitarist sit straight up and hold the guitar in a steady proper position right after tuning. Have him/her hit one sustained note, then lower the headstock of the guitar towards the floor. You will hear the note actually bend, as the headstock drags the strings via gravity.

Yet another test, play one open lower string, which will show the effect more clearly. While the string sustains, take your finger and do a very rapid slide from the 1st fret to the 12th, and back down to the open string. Do this while watching a tuner. You will see that the friction of your rip-riff causes the string to heat up, and change the pitch. As the string cools, it will return to normal.

Thirdly, play any single fretted note, then simply press harder. On any fretted instrument, you can easily bend notes by pressing. Good players can modify the ringing of 5ths and even compound chords by varying the pressure of their fingers. The best players do this simply by instinct and possibly have no idea that they do it. Like they say, Hendix could probably make a $20 guitar sound great. Sometimes, for certain kinds of powerchord situations, it is better to just have the musician play roots and 5ths only, as temperment situations make 3rds somewhat sketchy when you want that wall of sound.

Obviously, one cannot control all these variables, unless you happen to be Mutt and got the patience to multitrack single notes for chords! Still, one will see experienced studio musicians tend to sit fairly still and upright, holding their axe properly in a pretty steady way. Definately not how Keith Richards would do it, but even he knows the trade offs, and what you see in the movies isnt always what the producer allowed to go on tape.

Lastly, intonation. Getting fretted instruments properly set up, with new strings, thoroughly stretched out, is crucial. Fretted 12th fret notes must match the harmonic played at the same position exactly! Otherwise, pretty much no amount of tuning, pressure variation, or autotune, will save your tracks from sour notes, chords, and overdubbing nightmares.

Take time during initial tracking to have well set-up instruments, done by a professional, change strings often, even for every song (Ive seen it done for every few takes, but that gets rediculous), and stretch them thoroughly. Some instruments are beyond setting up, due to warping and poor fret-work, so dont be beyond advising your customers to borrow something else. Finally, tune up constantly, pretty much between every single take it should be checked. Seems like a hassle, yeah, but well worth it in the end.


OK, any other tips?


KT

[also note, humidity, heating, and air-con will affect tuning in radical ways. try to keep such things as constant as possible, once you begin hitting tape]

Your extended comments on tuning and intonation got me thinking...

If one is addressing the tuning/intonation aspect at that level, it's also important to note that no equal-tempered instrument is completely in tune with itself across all intervals and some guitarists find themselves retuning their guitars slightly for different keys. (Of course, fret/bridge/nut intonation, etc, can complicate this, as well.)

______________________


One of the things that often bugs me in low-budget/home recordings -- particularly those done by guitarists (I am one, so I can say this) -- is bad drum machine sounds and/or arrangements and/or sonic treatment (verb, EQ, etc).

It's probably not surprising that many guitarists have given little thought to drums, at least until they start to record -- given the not always warranted disdain that some guitarists hold for drummers. (In fact, once I started programming drum machines and trying to trick "lifelike" performances out of them a quarter century ago, I started REALLY respecting good drummers. )

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by warhead

Close mic'ing everything (can be a plus in a crap room)
War

i was gonna say this too! that is, using wide overhead placement on the drums, room mic....why? so we can hear the parallel reflections? suburban basements, man...

[axeman]

Common home recording mistakes:

Beliving the hype that you actually have a pro studio in your bedroom: You won´t do Metallicas Black album. You CAN though make a decent bedroom album. Just be aware of your weaknesses.

[theblue1]

Good point...

... that said, a good bedroom album can sound just about every bit as good as a big budget album if done with creativity and imagination.

Within realistic limitations.

You might not be able to afford 48 channels of top flight mics, pres, and mixer channels -- but you can probably afford a channel or two of very decent quality that can deliver much of what you get from top quality at channel or two at a time.

You're not going to be able to get the Vienna Boys Choir to sing backup... you can't get the London Phil in your BR studio...

... but how many of your favorite albums (besides maybe Let It Bleed) have the VBC or London Phil on them? (Classical fans may sit this out temporarily so as not to skew my rhetorical framework.)

And you CAN (if you work at it) get a string player or two to come in and, through creative overdubbing, lay in some nice testures that may not necessarily sound majestic, but can sound very rich, indeed. (I say skip the boys choir thing. Get a couple of sexy girl back up singers instead.)

[creegstor]

Idylldon,

I use a slightly different method to you but the idea is mostly the same:

Low E -- tune using third fret, G
A -- tune using 5th fret harmonic,
D -- tune using 2nd fret, E
G -- tune using second fret, A
B -- tune using third fret, D
E -- tune using third fret, G



As regards tuning being a problem area, I don't know. I think the proliferation of digital tuners has removed a lot of the musicality from the recording process. Every mid A is bang on 440 on every instrument on every record. It's not natural and not something I would encourage home recordists to aspire to. Having a broader tuning base within a recording gives the singer more leeway = no need for autopoxytune and a more natural sense of oscillation (for want of a better word) in the song. Of course, I'm not encouraging awful out-of-tuneness!

Also, sometimes a slightly stretched tuning or one string out of tune is exactly what's cool about a recording. Think of that out of tune E-string on "Helter Skelter". Makes the whole song!

[absrec]

Acoustics and monitoring are the biggest two that come to mind for me personally. It's taken me a lot of years to realize that the room is the most important thing. How do you know if something sounds right if you can't hear?

The problem is when you have people recording records for labels in their kitchen (not even a basement studio) on their laptops. Then the label gets the mixes and decides to have someone else (in a real studio) remix it. And then when it doesn't sound right, they look at the mixer like - "I thought you knew how to mix...". When all the while, they just can't admit that they should've cut in a real studio.

Mixing is nothing more than delaying the moment of truth!

[MASSIVE Master]

Ultra-common:

"Overdriving" mic preamps to +20 to "get the levels close to -0dBFS without clipping"



And then they wonder why it sounds "small" and "lifeless" later...

[natpub]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

Ultra-common:

"Overdriving" mic preamps to +20 to "get the levels close to -0dBFS without clipping"



And then they wonder why it sounds "small" and "lifeless" later...

can you elaborate on this, please?

[manomanoman]

Originally Posted by natpub

very cool Don, definately gonna try that

another thing interesting is that Buzz Feinten thing, or whatever it is called---a couple people round here seem to know a bit about it

I just picked up a new washborn acoustic with that system. I can't quite figure out what it's all about, even the Buzz and Washburn sites don't explain it very well, but I will tell you this, the set up out of the box was so good it required no additional work. The action was wonderful, the intonation the whole way up the neck is just as close to perfect as you can get.

[manomanoman]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Your extended comments on tuning and intonation got me thinking...

If one is addressing the tuning/intonation aspect at that level, it's also important to note that no equal-tempered instrument is completely in tune with itself across all intervals and some guitarists find themselves retuning their guitars slightly for different keys. (Of course, fret/bridge/nut intonation, etc, can complicate this, as well.)

______________________


One of the things that often bugs me in low-budget/home recordings -- particularly those done by guitarists (I am one, so I can say this) -- is bad drum machine sounds and/or arrangements and/or sonic treatment (verb, EQ, etc).

It's probably not surprising that many guitarists have given little thought to drums, at least until they start to record -- given the not always warranted disdain that some guitarists hold for drummers. (In fact, once I started programming drum machines and trying to trick "lifelike" performances out of them a quarter century ago, I started REALLY respecting good drummers. )

I have to agree. I think drum machines, loops, etc should never have been invented, they truly suck the life out of the music. Even more important is the lack of good songs, it all starts and ends with the song.

[Robie]

Right..with home recording..I at one time found myself WAAAAY too hung up on gear...
"If I could just get that new Wangstruedel mic pre..I'd be a fkkin musical genius"
well..that's bs, and it impedes the actual music making.
I have heard some really nice sounding, well written, performed and arranged music that was done in a bedroom with less than professional gear, drum loops etc.

That being said..the words "Great River" makes my stecker pick up, and I can't wait to sell enough crack to afford one...KIDDING!

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally Posted by natpub

can you elaborate on this, please?

Most run preamps "as they're designed" (for lack of a better term). Figure you're shooting for a signal bouncing around 0dB on the VU meters.

That'll come out to having the "bulk" of the signal at -20, maybe -18dBFS or so on the digital scale (depending on how the converters, etc. are calibrated). All is well. That's a more than healthy level and the gear is running "within specs" -

*Some* (LOTS lately for some odd reason) tend to want to get the signal "really hot without clipping" - To do so requires the preamp pushing (essentially overdriving like a Marshall stack) the signal 20dB (again, depending on how everything is calibrated).

That's not how the system is designed to work... Clarity and focus suffers, distortion is added, dynamics can get screwy, the image gets squishy - All sorts of non-ideal things can happen. A lot of people don't notice it with one or two tracks - When you stack a dozen or more together, then they start to notice the "small" sounding "veiled" lack of clarity and openness.

Obviously, some gear handles being ridden hard better than other gear - But when you think about it, back in the day when you were hitting tape hard, you might have been pushing the preamps to +4 or +6. Would you really expect the same sound quality at +16 or +20?

We have more and "cleaner" headroom now than we've ever had before - Some people embrace that, and it pays off big. Some on the other hand, are in some sort of a rush to use it all up as soon as possible and at every opportunity.

[dwall]

It's all about knowing how to use the tools at your disposal (technical understanding) to get the end result that you want (listening). But when conceptualizing your vision you have to realize that a home studio isn't going to sound like a big budget studio....or even someone else's home studio. The goal should be to sculpt your own sound anyway. You can get a lot of character from a home studio and make an album that lots of people will love, provided the music touches them and the production is supporting the music as opposed to killing it, and I think THAT'S the biggest mistake I hear in home recordings: the production isn't supporting the material, it's fighting it (smothering or hiding the song with overprocessing). I guess I hear this a lot in pro recordings as well, but not usually because of overprocessing so much as just a clashing of visions.

The same goes for arrangements and performance, which are so crucial: they have to support the material.

I also agree with what's been said here about the importance of being aware of how sound is moving around in/responding to the environment your working in, and that can get extra crucial in an apartment living room. If you can treat a room to get a few good sounding tracking spots and a decent listening spot for mixing, that can make a huge difference. Ufortunately I didn't totally figure that out during my first two home-made albums. I just moved into a new space and am pretty much treating the room like an instrument for my next recordings. Afterall, the room is as much a part of the sound of an acoustic guitar as the guitar itself, especially if you're not close-miking.

Most individuals aren't going to be inclined to spend hours upon hours working on every element involved in the recording of a song: composition (music/lyrics), acoustics, tone, intonation, arrangement (timbral combinations, textures, intensity, complimentary frequencies and rhythms, sonic space etc...), performance (timing, intonation, phrasing etc...)....and we haven't gotten to mic placement yet! From composition to editing/mixing and mastering (I think at least mastering should be outsourced, but picking the right engineer requires thought as well) there are SO many choices to be made. If a home recordist looks at every single step along the way and makes sure that he/she has asked every question they can ask before making the choice that best serves the song/album at hand, a great album can be made. It's overwhelming at first, but as time goes on you find yourself asking the right questions more naturally...and hopefully you have enough innate talent for some of it to come naturally in the first place.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Hope it gives somebody some food for thought. I've especially enjoyed the guitar tuning tips here myself.

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by natpub

another thing interesting is that Buzz Feinten thing, or whatever it is called---a couple people round here seem to know a bit about it

It involves a differently shaped nut, as I understand it, and the goal is to adjust the stringlengths to compensate for how the ear hears in different ranges of an instrument. Like when they tune a piano... they start in the middle and towards the ends of the keyboard it's not perfectly on pitch, but to compensate to make it sound right across the scale of the instrument. I can't remember if it gets farther from center as it goes out or closer to center pitch. The buzz feiten system mimicks that.

I probably didn't explain that well, but you get the general idea... I guess ultimately it makes the instrument sound in tune across the entire range of it's playability...?

[lofi_lothario]

great thread! thumbsup

i'm curious as to overall level you shoot for when getting tracks into your DAW. I know there is no set answer but what is a good healthy range for your drum tracks to be in for example?

[tgrokz]

i hate the term "home recording"
and not because that applies too me, but because its very misleading. when you hear that term, you automatically think "unprofessional", "doesn't know what they are doing", "limited equipment", and of course "I can get a MUCH better cd from a studio located in a strip mall somewhere". Now as i remember, a professional is someone who makes a living off of what they do. If you make money and it is your profession (hence the word), then you are a professional. that being said, i have seen some studios, namely 1 particular, that charge $600 a song or up, push out the most horrid sounding tracks. not because the band was terrible, but the mic placement, choice of samples, use of effects, and the list can go on forever. there are guys on here with home set ups that put their tunes in the mp3 upload thing, and they sound 10 times better than this studios recordings. so if these "professionals" at this studio can make crap, and the home guys make really good stuff, the artist sees a big SSL console and an HD3 system with racks of gear in the "pro studio" and sees the home guy with 002 and a few other things. naturally, reguardless of the music these 2 studios have actually done, the visual of "wow, these guys have a lot of stuuff. they must know what they're doing!" will seal the deal right off the bat.

now that being said, im sure 90% of the engineers in these big studios, DO know what they are doing. all those racks and mics and everything will be used just right. it's just that, acoustics and gear aside, with the know how and overall skill, someone with a low end system in their bedroom/basement, CAN make awesome tunes.

so now, after that giant rant of misspellings and gramatical errors, my response to this thread is

NOT HAVING SKILL, PASSION, AND VISION
sure acoustics will not give you a perfect sound, and sure miking is important, but overall, its a matter of getting into your music, feeling it for everything its worth, and seeing every track in your head jsut how you want it to sound. if you really give a shit and want all of your recordings to sound amazing, then get inside of them. be creative. in the digital world, you cna change anything, and hit undo (for the most part). miic an instrument 10 differient time, 10 differient ways, until lyou get that sound that melts you. don't stop untill you know you did the best you could with that track. honestly, i think that's what sepperates the real engineers from the so called "professionals"


wow, im sure i would have a heart attack if i went over all that and fixed grammar and spelling. that's what happens when you write faster than your mind thinks.

[dwall]

Yeah, and most people (myself included) would rather hear a crappy hand-held tape recording of a great song/performance than to hear a 10 million dollar recording of a bland performance of uninspired crap.