warmer vocals with u87

brianaustinny · 19th July 2006

I have borrowed a nice U87 to do vocals on my cd. I'm going direct into a Motu ultralight and then into Logic. The sound is good, much better than my sm58, but perhaps too clean. I'd like to warm it up. I'm considering getting a tube pre, maybe the UA 610 or something else. (maybe just plug-ins?)
Another thing that may be relevant is that I seem to sing a little differently when listening to the tracks with my headphones on. I'm very comforable singing with my acoustic guitar or with a band live, but the headphones seem weird. I've done some tracks with only one ear covered. This helps a little.
I know that I'm a strong singer, but in some of these tracks I sound a bit weak and trebley. Any advice I'll take...

NesNeedsGear · 19th July 2006

i guess you could try my recent fav tube mic, AT 4060.

Faderjockey · 19th July 2006

Try a Chandler LTD-1 too... I'm not a fan of the 610.
But also might not be the right mic for that gig.

brianaustinny · 19th July 2006

Just to clarify, I'm probably sticking with the u87 because that's all I have access to at the moment. So I'm looking to warm up it's sound.

**Geert van den Berg** · 19th July 2006

Don't sing into the U87 as if it were a SM58 if you sing very loud (actually also when singing softer), back off to about 20-30 cm or sometimes even further (when very loud) and use a tastefull amount of compression at a 2:1/3:1 ratio, preferably while tracking.

brianaustinny · 19th July 2006

That helps out. I've probably been too close. Is there a difference between adding compression before the mic pre or as a plug in in Logic? Should I do it while tracking to help how I hear my voice in the mix? thanks a lot

Rufuss Sewell · 19th July 2006

Compressors generally need line level so they come after the pre no matter what. The difference is:

A) A hardware compressor will probably sound better and give you a louder signal going to disk, but you're stuck with the results.

B) Plug-ins are generally considered lower quality, you get a weaker signal to disk, but more flexability during the mix.

I generally go for option "A" and don't look back.

aussie_techie · 20th July 2006

ill take A & B
compressing to disk will help alot assuming its a great compressors and not something cheep. but you have to be carefull not to over compress so if in doubt under compress then finish it off on mix down.

a thicker sounding pre and good compressor sounds like what you need.

good plug-ins go a long way in a mix but if you dont get a great sound in there isnt anything a plug-in can do.

if you dont like to use headphones then dont, a little bleed isnt a problem if you capture a great performance. just point your monitor towards the null of the mic and keep levels low. to help keep your distance from a mic position the pop filter at a good distance and stay close to the pop filter.

Mike Jasper · 20th July 2006

Try setting the U87 to Omni instead of Cardioid. Some people get good results from that.

Jasper

**Geert van den Berg** · 20th July 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianaustinny

That helps out. I've probably been too close. Is there a difference between adding compression before the mic pre or as a plug in in Logic? Should I do it while tracking to help how I hear my voice in the mix? thanks a lot

The compression was more or less ment as adding weight and body to the vocal, the mic has plenty of highs and the compression will bring out the lows better, but if you're singing too close I feel the sound is weird and unnatural, kind of like strangling the membrame. Offcourse it will also level the vocals... you'd need to experiment which setting works best as this will be different for each voice. And you could always add more during the mix, don't overdo the compression while tracking.

I feel analog compression sounds better than digital compression, if you do it right, but if you don't than via a plugin is the best option as you'll have more room to experiment and not all plugin comps sound bad.

Seeing that you don't have a hardware pre and compressor (you'll need a pre as the comp comes after the pre), you can experiment a bit by using a small buffer and inserting a compressor on a track while you record, see how it alters the sound and also the way you perform.

If you'd use a hardware comp you could track at a slightly higher gain level but if you record to 24 bits then I wouldn't really worry about having some headroom, just operate all gear at their optimum level, the point where it sounds best.

Pasta4lnch · 21st July 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianaustinny

, but the headphones seem weird. .

could his be latency? especially if you are running through plugg-ins before you monitor it . . . .

a tube pre will help the "warming issue"

popmann · 21st July 2006

No...singing in headphones is just different as a singer. I've grown up doing it and I still don't like it much.

One tip: don't monitor the vocal at all. Do the one ear thing...but, have NO vocal in the headphones.

As to "warming" the 87. If it's an AI, good luck with that. I would look more to the compressor--and La2a or La610 softens a good deal. The 610 sounds a bit "warmer" with an old 87...but, I've never thought it was bad through any preamp...again, "U87ai", those bets are off. I had pretty decent luck running an AI into a Great River--still not a really big, full sound in the grand scheme.

19th July 2006	#1
brianaustinny Gear Head Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 32 Thread Starter	warmer vocals with u87 I have borrowed a nice U87 to do vocals on my cd. I'm going direct into a Motu ultralight and then into Logic. The sound is good, much better than my sm58, but perhaps too clean. I'd like to warm it up. I'm considering getting a tube pre, maybe the UA 610 or something else. (maybe just plug-ins?) Another thing that may be relevant is that I seem to sing a little differently when listening to the tracks with my headphones on. I'm very comforable singing with my acoustic guitar or with a band live, but the headphones seem weird. I've done some tracks with only one ear covered. This helps a little. I know that I'm a strong singer, but in some of these tracks I sound a bit weak and trebley. Any advice I'll take...

19th July 2006	#3
Faderjockey Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2002 Location: Baltimore Posts: 1,969	Try a Chandler LTD-1 too... I'm not a fan of the 610. But also might not be the right mic for that gig. __________________ B-Custom (custom Shop) www.barberelectronics.com

19th July 2006	#7
Rufuss Sewell Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,935	Compressors generally need line level so they come after the pre no matter what. The difference is: A) A hardware compressor will probably sound better and give you a louder signal going to disk, but you're stuck with the results. B) Plug-ins are generally considered lower quality, you get a weaker signal to disk, but more flexability during the mix. I generally go for option "A" and don't look back. __________________ My Studio: www.Nebulost.com My Band: www.OneEyedDoll.com

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19th July 2006	#2
NesNeedsGear Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 833	i guess you could try my recent fav tube mic, AT 4060.

19th July 2006	#5
Geert van den Berg Mac Moderator Joined: May 2003 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 3,454	Don't sing into the U87 as if it were a SM58 if you sing very loud (actually also when singing softer), back off to about 20-30 cm or sometimes even further (when very loud) and use a tastefull amount of compression at a 2:1/3:1 ratio, preferably while tracking.

20th July 2006	#8
aussie_techie Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 2,709	ill take A & B compressing to disk will help alot assuming its a great compressors and not something cheep. but you have to be carefull not to over compress so if in doubt under compress then finish it off on mix down. a thicker sounding pre and good compressor sounds like what you need. good plug-ins go a long way in a mix but if you dont get a great sound in there isnt anything a plug-in can do. if you dont like to use headphones then dont, a little bleed isnt a problem if you capture a great performance. just point your monitor towards the null of the mic and keep levels low. to help keep your distance from a mic position the pop filter at a good distance and stay close to the pop filter.

20th July 2006	#9
Mike Jasper Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,729	Try setting the U87 to Omni instead of Cardioid. Some people get good results from that. Jasper

21st July 2006	#12
popmann Lives for gear Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Nashville Posts: 3,179 1 Review written	No...singing in headphones is just different as a singer. I've grown up doing it and I still don't like it much. One tip: don't monitor the vocal at all. Do the one ear thing...but, have NO vocal in the headphones. As to "warming" the 87. If it's an AI, good luck with that. I would look more to the compressor--and La2a or La610 softens a good deal. The 610 sounds a bit "warmer" with an old 87...but, I've never thought it was bad through any preamp...again, "U87ai", those bets are off. I had pretty decent luck running an AI into a Great River--still not a really big, full sound in the grand scheme.