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Side by side shoot out of Studio Projects C1 & B1??
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withsong
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9th November 2012
Old 9th November 2012
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Side by side shoot out of Studio Projects C1 & B1??

Hi my dear friends,

Does anyone have a shoot out between StudioProjects C1 and B1 mics? Or can anyone do one please please? I have found a lot of discussions and reviews on them everywhere, but can't find any side by side shoot out audio or video which would be much useful and helpful in describing the features and the differences between these two mics. Also, it would be nice to compare some other similar price range mics with them as well, e.g. AT4040, MXL2003a...

Thank you guys so very much!!
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9th November 2012
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I don't mean to be an ass, but comparing the B1 to a C1 is sort of like comparing the thicknesses of a toothpick and a pop sickle stick.

Both are, IMHO, thin sounding, sibilant Chinese crapola mics. I've used both many years ago. And they're both distant, bad memories....

AT4040, however, is a step up in quality (though my least favorite in the 40 series). More of a full, neutral sound. Good on instruments and some voices. The whole AT 40 series is respectable and you'll find them in real, pro studios.

I tried the MXL 2003A as well and really wanted to like the mic (Because of Mike Joly raving about it). I found it decent on instruments, but terrible on vocals. Sounded pretty thin to me. Sibilant, no, but definitely thin. The mic is 140 bucks new and you get what you pay for.

Start saving for a used Audio Technica 4047. For the price, that mic will rock your world. You can get one used for around 350 bucks.
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11th November 2012
Old 11th November 2012
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Originally Posted by guitarboy94 View Post
I don't mean to be an ass, but comparing the B1 to a C1 is sort of like comparing the thicknesses of a toothpick and a pop sickle stick.

Both are, IMHO, thin sounding, sibilant Chinese crapola mics. I've used both many years ago. And they're both distant, bad memories....

AT4040, however, is a step up in quality (though my least favorite in the 40 series). More of a full, neutral sound. Good on instruments and some voices. The whole AT 40 series is respectable and you'll find them in real, pro studios.

I tried the MXL 2003A as well and really wanted to like the mic (Because of Mike Joly raving about it). I found it decent on instruments, but terrible on vocals. Sounded pretty thin to me. Sibilant, no, but definitely thin. The mic is 140 bucks new and you get what you pay for.

Start saving for a used Audio Technica 4047. For the price, that mic will rock your world. You can get one used for around 350 bucks.


Thanks for your reply my friend. I don't really have a lot mic experiences before. But once, I have used a crappy dynamic mic a while back and it made my voice sound soooo thick and muddy, and literally it became my haunting memory... lol anyways, so I'm trying to avoid that to happen again. The reason I put B1 and C1 in my list is cuz of course many wonderful reviews online everywhere, but also a shoot out on youtube:
Rode NT1-A • Studio Projects B1 • Rode M3 • Shure SM58 • Mikrofonvergleich - Sprache - YouTube
B1 IS, as you said, sibilant, but I kinda feel it makes voice more clear, open, crisp and close, instead of sounding muddy like you speak or sing in a blanket~ I kinda want that (partially), just don't know if I should get B1 or C1 and what's the sound difference between these two. That's what I wanna know (giving that I can't find any store or place around Phoenix AZ where I can try both of them). If you may help or be able to record a shoot out that'd be so nice of you and helpful :D

But I also want the voice to be deep in midrange or lower. So maybe mix another dark mic with what I get from B1 or C1 or maybe nt1a?? I was thinking about at 40 series since there are so many compliments on this forum and other discussions. But from this shoot out on youtube:
Large Diaphragm Condenser Shootout: AT4050, NT2000, AT4033a, Sputnik - YouTube
(a funny shoot out) I found at40 series color the sound slightly more. But it does have a cut high end~ I don't know. You said 4040 is the least favorite then which one worth the money more? AT4070? Also if you have any shoot outs, that'd be great

So besides at4070, do you have any other suggestions on a mic under 500 bucks? They will be mainly on voice I forgot to mention lol Thank you so much for the reply!!!
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11th November 2012
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Check out some of the Kel microphones. They have some really nice, crisp sounding mics for around 300 bucks. With the Kel mics, you'll get crisp sound without the crappy sibilance.

Products - Kel Audio Microphones
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13th November 2012
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How much do you want to spend?
What will you be running the microphone into (preamp, interface)?

A lot of people are instantly impressed the first time they try a condenser mic because of all the extra high frequencies they might have been missing with stage dynamics, but if the mic doesn't present a balanced sound, you will probably quickly grow tired of it.

KEL makes good, cheap mics. I have an HM2D that, while not my favorite condenser, definitely holds its own. The HM7U seems very solid as well.

AT4050 is very versatile, and the 4047 sounds nice from clips I've heard. I wouldn't reach for a 4050 on my voice most of the time, as it's a little uninteresting somehow.

Stellar mics are very good for the price. Not sure I would like the CM6, but I have a CM5 that is very impressive, especially for instruments.

If you have an interface or a preamp with plenty of clean gain, high end dynamic microphones like SM7 and MD441 can be very good as well.
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13th November 2012
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I have the same question as the OP. I'm also looking for a vocal condenser and have considered the Studio Projects C1, Studio Projects B1, AT4040, Rode NT1A, Blue Bluebird, and the AKG 220. There are a lot of mics in the $150-300 price range. What should one choose?
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13th November 2012
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Well, I like buying used. I got my 4050 for $250 and my Stellar CM5 for $320 or so, and those are both way better than my impression of most mics in that price range. The KEL HM2D retails new for $200, and is well worth that, but I got mine for $130. So from my experience, KEL or start watching for Ebay auctions and checking the classifieds here. The AT40XX stuff is very solid, definitely not a waste of time. KEL stuff is very worthwhile. Can't say I have the same impression of Studio Projects or AKG (low end) mics. The bluebird is very bright, but might be ok. I've heard great things about the Blue Spark, which is very cheap if I'm not mistaken.
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13th November 2012
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13th November 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livid View Post
I have the same question as the OP. I'm also looking for a vocal condenser and have considered the Studio Projects C1, Studio Projects B1, AT4040, Rode NT1A, Blue Bluebird, and the AKG 220. There are a lot of mics in the $150-300 price range. What should one choose?
Of the mics on this list I would recommend the AT4040.
I've owned all of these apart from the AKG220 and my favorite is the 4040. I did manage to get some pretty good results the the B1 but it had an annoying sizzle that I couldn't get rid of. The 4040 has all the clarity of the B1 but without the sizzle!

I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Kel Hm2d as this mic is dark sounding and is the darkest of my collection!
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13th November 2012
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Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Of the mics on this list I would recommend the AT4040.
I've owned all of these apart from the AKG220 and my favorite is the 4040. I did manage to get some pretty good results the the B1 but it had an annoying sizzle that I couldn't get rid of. The 4040 has all the clarity of the B1 but without the sizzle!

I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Kel Hm2d as this mic is dark sounding and is the darkest of my collection!
A lot of people speak highly of the AT4040. I'm going to try one in person next weekend. My friend has the B1 and I agree with you, there might be too much high end for most uses. Although how does it compare to the C1, the next model up, for what you've been using it for?
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13th November 2012
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Originally Posted by Livid View Post
A lot of people speak highly of the AT4040. I'm going to try one in person next weekend. My friend has the B1 and I agree with you, there might be too much high end for most uses. Although how does it compare to the C1, the next model up, for what you've been using it for?
I'm not sure how the 4040 compares to the C1 as I've not tried one. I have heard that the C1 is brighter than the B1 though?
Another mic worth trying is the SE2200T. This mic can sound impressive on some sources!
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13th November 2012
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Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Kel Hm2d as this mic is dark sounding and is the darkest of my collection!
Fair enough. For what it is worth, I think the HM2D really has all the frequencies present, but is a bit puffy in the lower mids, maybe a bit like an SM7 with faster transients and more extended HF response. Pulling down 200-300 hz a bit can make it a very present sounding mic in my experience.
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14th November 2012
Old 14th November 2012
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Originally Posted by Livid View Post
I have the same question as the OP. I'm also looking for a vocal condenser and have considered the Studio Projects C1, Studio Projects B1, AT4040, Rode NT1A, Blue Bluebird, and the AKG 220. There are a lot of mics in the $150-300 price range. What should one choose?
I'm glad my question brought the discussion from all you guys! Thanks a lot! I actually went to Guitar Center just to see if they have any mics I can try on. Sadly they don't have Studio Projects line so I still don't know the sound of them. But I changed my mind after I actually tried some mics. I was really leaning toward Rode nt1a when I go cuz I want a little high end and thought it might give the intimate and clear sound. (also the shock mount popfilter and stuff lol) But surprisingly the sound of nt1a is kinda far and quiet. I mean it sounds like when you try to lower the noise you also lower the whole sound down. When you increase the gain it sounds better but then the sizzling high end came. Now I understand what all those guys were talking about.

But honestly it was still a nice mic and my friend said he would just go with it cuz it's cheaper and doesn't sound much differently at all. But to me, using the same gain and stuff, AT4040 sounds more intimate and close. Like someone is talking to you near your ear. And yes it does have a fuller midrange and bass, not really muddy as I thought I might be. So I was surprised. Guess I was prejudicial about AT.

So that's the thing. I also tried Rode nt2a and it sounds great! Better than nt1a IMO but just too expensive for me~ AKG Perception 420 sounds nice too but I can't really remember anything about it now lol sorry. Cuz I was too tangled up with the question Rode or AT......

So far all the people I have talked to picked AT4040 over nt1a. My friend picked nt1a first but then he changed his mind during the test. So I'm leaning toward AT4040 now. I wanna try SE series and maybe blue mics, but I already got like 4 mics out and was kinda embarrassed to ask for more lol. Maybe I will go again later and try out more lol (I'm so annoying...$%^$& lol)

Sorry that I probably restated the same opinion of many other guys who have comment in this forum before, but I guess until you really try the mics out you will never really understand. So yea do it. But seriously if I picked any one in the list without comparing to other mics, I'll still have a pretty good time with it cuz they are all good mics. But thanks to all the guys who gave suggestions. I love learning about mics that I didn't really research on. So keep going if you have your opinions! Thanks a lot!
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14th November 2012
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Originally Posted by prontold View Post
How much do you want to spend?
What will you be running the microphone into (preamp, interface)?

A lot of people are instantly impressed the first time they try a condenser mic because of all the extra high frequencies they might have been missing with stage dynamics, but if the mic doesn't present a balanced sound, you will probably quickly grow tired of it.

KEL makes good, cheap mics. I have an HM2D that, while not my favorite condenser, definitely holds its own. The HM7U seems very solid as well.

AT4050 is very versatile, and the 4047 sounds nice from clips I've heard. I wouldn't reach for a 4050 on my voice most of the time, as it's a little uninteresting somehow.

Stellar mics are very good for the price. Not sure I would like the CM6, but I have a CM5 that is very impressive, especially for instruments.

If you have an interface or a preamp with plenty of clean gain, high end dynamic microphones like SM7 and MD441 can be very good as well.
Hi! Thanks for the suggestions. I would like to spend around $300 or less~ Can't really afford more now :( And I ordered a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4~ Any suggestions? How's AT4047 compare to AT4040?
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14th November 2012
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Haven't used the 4040 or the 4047 myself, but my impression from sound clips is that the 4040 is very 'neutral' or clear sounding, with a bit of a scoop in the midrange and subjectively detailed high frequencies. The 4047 is tuned to have a bit more of a 'vintage' (read mid-frequency emphasis) tone, and sounds a bit softer and richer than the 4040 and 4050. I think most here would say they prefer the 4047 more often for vocals.
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14th November 2012
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14th November 2012
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Originally Posted by withsong View Post
Any suggestions? How's AT4047 compare to AT4040?
I borrowed the 4047 off someone a while back and really liked the mic but found it didn't quite suit the vocalist I work with. The 4040 was a better match. This doesn't mean the 4040 is a better mic than the 4047, it means it suits some sources more than the 4047. The 4047 would suit some sources better than the 4040.

You really need to try them out side by side if possible?
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14th November 2012
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Good point, Dickiefunk. There is no best mic (though there are some mics that just aren't likely to work in many situations), and different voices work better with different styles of capturing the sound.

Was this for your soprano that you record? What works for high and airy or brassy voices could be very different that what works for an average male baritone, and it's important to keep that in mind if you don't have a chance to demo mics for yourself.
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14th November 2012
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Was this for your soprano that you record? What works for high and airy or brassy voices could be very different that what works for an average male baritone, and it's important to keep that in mind if you don't have a chance to demo mics for yourself.
Yes. Just didn't seem to suit her voice. I did a rough a/b shootout of her voice which I posted on one of the forums (can't remember which) and most people preferred the AT4040 or SE2200T.

Still not 100% satisfied with the sound I'm getting but with my current collection of mics I have something that is certainly useable.
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14th November 2012
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Originally Posted by prontold View Post
Clipalator: Audio and Video | Studio Gear Shootouts @ ZenProAudio.com

Check out the sound samples here on the 4040 and 4047
Thanks for the share! It's obvious in the shootout audio of the difference between these two mics! But AT4047 is way out of my budget now lol. Gee a good mic is even more expensive than a laptop~ lol
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14th November 2012
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I'm sure the at4040 can work on some voices, but wow, my at4047 destroys my at4040 on male vocals. You can pick up a used at4047 for a just a little more than a new 4040. Got my 4047 for 350 bucks off ebay. It's one of the best sounding sub 1000 dollar condensers I've ever used. Tony Bennett uses it on his vocals in the studio.

If you can save up just a few hundred bucks more and get out of the sub 200 dollar range, you enter a big world of possibilities in affordable, quality condensers, such as the AT4047 and AT40450, Kel microphones, Stellar CM5 and CM6, etc.
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14th November 2012
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I agree. If you can wait a few more weeks or even a month or two and add 100-200 dollars to your budget, you can get a big step up in the quality of the LDCs available to you.

And if you wait a whole lot longer and save up $2000, then you're really cooking, but that's a different story...
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15th November 2012
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Originally Posted by guitarboy94 View Post
I'm sure the at4040 can work on some voices, but wow, my at4047 destroys my at4040 on male vocals. You can pick up a used at4047 for a just a little more than a new 4040. Got my 4047 for 350 bucks off ebay. It's one of the best sounding sub 1000 dollar condensers I've ever used. Tony Bennett uses it on his vocals in the studio.

If you can save up just a few hundred bucks more and get out of the sub 200 dollar range, you enter a big world of possibilities in affordable, quality condensers, such as the AT4047 and AT40450, Kel microphones, Stellar CM5 and CM6, etc.
So for like $500 range, what's your opinion about the mics on male vocals? I just feel oh boy there are so many choices and I don't know where to start. Again, some professional suggestions or a shoot out will help so much! Btw I can't find Stellar CM6 anywhere??
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15th November 2012
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I agree. If you can wait a few more weeks or even a month or two and add 100-200 dollars to your budget, you can get a big step up in the quality of the LDCs available to you.

And if you wait a whole lot longer and save up $2000, then you're really cooking, but that's a different story...
lol It's just an endless pursue lol
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15th November 2012
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I'm sure the at4040 can work on some voices, but wow, my at4047 destroys my at4040 on male vocals. You can pick up a used at4047 for a just a little more than a new 4040. Got my 4047 for 350 bucks off ebay. It's one of the best sounding sub 1000 dollar condensers I've ever used. Tony Bennett uses it on his vocals in the studio.

If you can save up just a few hundred bucks more and get out of the sub 200 dollar range, you enter a big world of possibilities in affordable, quality condensers, such as the AT4047 and AT40450, Kel microphones, Stellar CM5 and CM6, etc.
And btw is the one Tony used in his first Duet album AT4047? I think I saw it in his video??
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16th November 2012
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So for like $500 range, what's your opinion about the mics on male vocals? I just feel oh boy there are so many choices and I don't know where to start. Again, some professional suggestions or a shoot out will help so much! Btw I can't find Stellar CM6 anywhere??
Stellar and AT stuff is good. For $500 you might be able to score a used AKG C414. There's also the KEL HM7U. Find stellar mics here, or save an ebay search.

Stellar Microphones - Purchase Here
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16th November 2012
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lol It's just an endless pursue lol
Yea... I got my first truly high end mic a couple of days back (now I need the room and performance skills to earn it haha). I think I'm done upgrading as I'm very satisfied with the sound. It was the kind of thing where the first time you sing into it, you realize that's the sound you've been looking for all this time.

So maybe it's not endless, but it's definitely expensive. I think there's some real merit to saving up for what you really want, even if it takes a while. Of course, a good bit of research might be involved as well, as not every expensive mic is going to sound like your ideal. Just get something decent to record with, and then if you are obsessed with sound quality, save up patiently. And god help you
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16th November 2012
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Yea... I got my first truly high end mic a couple of days back (now I need the room and performance skills to earn it haha). I think I'm done upgrading as I'm very satisfied with the sound. It was the kind of thing where the first time you sing into it, you realize that's the sound you've been looking for all this time.

So maybe it's not endless, but it's definitely expensive. I think there's some real merit to saving up for what you really want, even if it takes a while. Of course, a good bit of research might be involved as well, as not every expensive mic is going to sound like your ideal. Just get something decent to record with, and then if you are obsessed with sound quality, save up patiently. And god help you

What was the high end mic you just got that bonded you at first sing? :D
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16th November 2012
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withsong,

I'm not sure anyone answered your question. It kinda depends on the style of music, but with a good preamp the Studio Projects C1 is a nice sounding mic. Especially for Pop music, and that extended top end kinda sound. The B1 is similar from what I understand, but I have only used the original C1's

You could save up for a better mic...sure. But then you would be without a mic. I personally believe in having tools needed for work...instead of not working, because you can't afford more expensive gear. It's like saying, don't build a house, if you can't get the best hammer available

The AT mic's are more neutral than the cheaper SP's. If you could spring for an Audio Technica 4033, you would have a good mic that you could use for all types of stuff.

At one point I used to recommend the Cad Trion 8000 on a budget. But I now think the Apex 460 is probably a better bet. Those two are tube mics, and are certainly suitable for most applications.
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17th November 2012
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hey stevens, not saying that you shouldn't buy a mic if it's not the best mic out there. I think you should first get something that enables you to work. Then, don't think so much about incremental upgrades unless there's something that you really need. If you just want a better version of what you have, go large.

withsong, the high end mic is a lewilson 247. Every mic I sang into and kept before the 247 felt like 'yea, that's an interesting sound, it might work for ____', but hearing the lewilson was more like 'whoah, that is the sound.' I would honestly sell off all my outboard preamps and compressors and most of my other mics before parting with this one, because it is so true to the sound I hear and desire in my mind.

Not trying to be a shill, but it's a cool mic
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