80's metal sound - the real deal

[jetam]

Would that be close enough to the sound you're looking for?

Youtube

[steelwizard]

No. I mean, it sounds pretty cool but the 80's metal magic is completely missing. Also 80's metal sounded produced, this one sounds more stripped down "Indie rock" (okay not quite, but I can't seem to find a better word) like if you know what I mean.

[jetam]

Originally Posted by steelwizard

No. I mean, it sounds pretty cool but the 80's metal magic is completely missing. Also 80's metal sounded produced, this one sounds more stripped down "Indie rock" (okay not quite, but I can't seem to find a better word) like if you know what I mean.

Yeah, I understand. I think that it is mostly about having quite a lot of the room sound and even more artificial reverb. Not just on the drums, but on everything.
And of course the tape and the drummer hitting the drums hard.

[smili]

Originally Posted by steelwizard

Now some positive examples:
Battle beyond the stars - Medieval Steel - YouTube
This one actually sound very distorted and lofi. But still it sounds so perfect! (unless you listen to it on youtube - but you'll get the idea) Just listen to those guitar solos! Listen to those vocals! And most important, listen to the reverb! You'll either start laughing because it sounds cheesy or, if you're anything like me, you'll start laughing because it fills your heart with so much joy.

I was going to say how could you NOT listen to the reverb? This reverb goes to 11! I see what you mean though. Nice vibe.

Edit: I'd also say the VH clip is worlds different from the others to my ears. It's drums and guitars, with just a little bit of bass - or seems that way. Not sure how to classify it, but Ed's guitar is clearer/rawer - the others have more of a saturation that takes away the chiminess - again - at least to my ears.

[matyas]

Originally Posted by steelwizard

Although I was born in 91 I can't help being "retro". Not for the sake of being retro, but when I listen to all those old records, they just sound so much better than recent ones and when I turn them around the clothes and hairstyles also look so much better.

Wow, you just made this Gen-Xer feel really old. I never thought I'd live to see the day when someone expressed the view that 80s metal clothing and hair needed to brought back, especially from someone who wasn't there for it the first time around. But hey, when I was a kid, aging baby boomers thought it was weird that I was into the Velvet Underground, the Beatles, and Leonard Cohen. So whatever.
Anyway, reverb - and lots of it. No tubes or ribbons - U87s and C414s all the way. Dead rooms and console preamps. I wouldn't worry about the lack of tape. A surprising amount of stuff in the 80s and 90s went to early digital, like Sony PCM-3324 (later 3348) and Mitsubishi ProDigi. It all often went to crummy digital anyway: a lot of vinyl was even pressed from Sony PCM-1600 masters.
Someone like Michael Wagener could probably correct me on some of this stuff.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Reverbs, gates, eq as a sculpting tool. In my mind a Rev7 would be a must. (480s being too expensive for most.) Lots of floor pedals, the guitars themselves had little personality, you couldn't tell a Strat from a Les Paul or a Krammer with your eyes closed. Close-miced drums, DI basses, but the studio gear wouldn't be too exotic. Lots of SSls around back then, also lacking much mojo in the mic pre section, very generic. Lexicons. Nobody cared much about tube or solid state, gear was gear, mics were mics.

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by steelwizard

Hello there.
After searching this board and the internet in general I already got a lot of useful information. But not enough!

I think its really about the gear and micing technique, and tape.

You need something like a JCM800 boosted with a tube screamer through Celestion 12t75 watter. Pickups should be Duncan Custom Custom or super distortion. Mic it near the center of the cone off axis. Through an API console. The tape I think made that work because it rolled off the high frequencies which would otherwise be too raspy. That is probably why that micing technique does not work 100% as well with digital.

Listen to those old tones, you could really hear the "paper" of the speaker cones. Also, the guitars we'rent pretending they are bass guitars, they probably had a HP filter. And alot of those bands, meticulously double/triple tracked the rythym parts.

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by steelwizard

Van Halen - Van Halen - I'm The One - YouTube
Not from the 80's but I guess it influenced them. And to me it's the best sounding album ever.

Eddie used Duncan Custom Custom back then. Its really trebly but it doesnt have the top sparkle.

[Speeddemon]

Originally Posted by SabreChris

I think its really about the gear and micing technique, and tape.

You need something like a JCM800 boosted with a tube screamer through Celestion 12t75 watter. Pickups should be Duncan Custom Custom or super distortion. Mic it near the center of the cone off axis. Through an API console. The tape I think made that work because it rolled off the high frequencies which would otherwise be too raspy. That is probably why that micing technique does not work 100% as well with digital.

Listen to those old tones, you could really hear the "paper" of the speaker cones. Also, the guitars we'rent pretending they are bass guitars, they probably had a HP filter. And alot of those bands, meticulously double/triple tracked the rythym parts.

A/DA MP1 Preamp; *that's* what gets you the 80's metal sound!

Then in terms of studio reverbs, I think a Roland DEP-5 is a must as well, because of the Non-Lin and Reverse Gated Reverbs it has. Not to mention, the unit *is* from '86! I had one, and it was instant 80's production. Sold it, as I got a Roland SRV-330, which to me was more versatile.

Anyway, lots of 80's stuff is brighter than 90's productions; early digital delays were used for guitars and those did not have high-rolloffs.

I think, on a budget a nice FX rack would be:
-Yamaha Rev 7 (or Rev 5)
-Roland DEP-5
-Lexicon LXP-15II or seperate LXP-1 + LXP-5.
(-Ibanez SDR-1000)

But I agree with the TS that a lot of modern stuff that's aimed to sound like the 80's, misses something, usually because it's trying to hard.

While not metal, I totally dig the Mighty Imperials-Thunderchicken, which is a funk/soul record, recorded in '97 IIRC, and it sounds like it was made by The Meters and James Brown in the late '60's. They nailed the whole sound, instead of half-assed imitating.

[SabreChris]

The ADA-MP1 came out in 1987, it was late to the party. The most important part of the tone of that era is the speaker, imo.

[Grumblefoot]

Michael Wagner is a mod in the high end area. He worked with Accept, Dokken, Skid Row, Alice Cooper ect... Maybe he will chime in. http://www.michaelwagener.com/html/ww.html. Check out the client page for his credits, he had a ton to do with 80's metal sound IMHO.

[steelwizard]

Guitar gear? I've got a Charvel, a 2204, and a SD-1. That'll do . No t75s, I'm a Greenback guy! But they probably sound great together. I always said my bands 2nd guitarist should use them so we get two distinctively different guitar tones. Btw, wouldn't it rather be 65s than 75s? But I didn't know the Custom Custom PU (and neither did I know Eddie used it on VHI, I always thought it was an usual PAF). How does it compare to the Dimarzio Super Distortion output wise? I love pickups like the Super Distortion or the Tone Zone because with those pickups I don't need any boost for most rhythm parts.

Then - I can't post with the Gearslutz mobile app - I guess the admin guys did that because they don't like all those typos. Or I forgot to login.

Then - thank you very much for your replying. It's always cool to learn about more oldschool reverb units, all I knew before were the PCM 60/70/90, the Rev7, the Ursa Major Stargate and the SPX90 of course.

Talking about tape - that's a big question. Is it possible to get that sound without tape? Someone mentioned the DASH recorders the were around in the 80's. I don't think bands like Leatherwolf or Medieval Steel could afford digital production but maybe I'm wrong.

Michael Wagener? As I said, I love most of his work from the 80's. Just don't mention Metallica . But I love what he did with Accept and Dokken (at least until Back For The Attack, that's when they started to sound too "modern"). I think he also produced Renegade by Hammerfall, which sounded good - but that kind of sound still wouldn't be close enough to the sound in my head.

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by steelwizard

Guitar gear? I've got a Charvel, a 2204, and a SD-1. That'll do . No t75s, I'm a Greenback guy! But they probably sound great together. I always said my bands 2nd guitarist should use them so we get two distinctively different guitar tones. Btw, wouldn't it rather be 65s than 75s? But I didn't know the Custom Custom PU (and neither did I know Eddie used it on VHI, I always thought it was an usual PAF). How does it compare to the Dimarzio Super Distortion output wise? I love pickups like the Super Distortion or the Tone Zone because with those pickups I don't need any boost for most rhythm parts.

Then - I can't post with the Gearslutz mobile app - I guess the admin guys did that because they don't like all those typos. Or I forgot to login.

Then - thank you very much for your replying. It's always cool to learn about more oldschool reverb units, all I knew before were the PCM 60/70/90, the Rev7, the Ursa Major Stargate and the SPX90 of course.

Talking about tape - that's a big question. Is it possible to get that sound without tape? Someone mentioned the DASH recorders the were around in the 80's. I don't think bands like Leatherwolf or Medieval Steel could afford digital production but maybe I'm wrong.

Michael Wagener? As I said, I love most of his work from the 80's. Just don't mention Metallica . But I love what he did with Accept and Dokken (at least until Back For The Attack, that's when they started to sound too "modern"). I think he also produced Renegade by Hammerfall, which sounded good - but that kind of sound still wouldn't be close enough to the sound in my head.

I dont know if he used a CustomCustom or if the CustomCustom was modeled on his early pickups. There is a general consensus that the EVH custom shop pickup is a Custom Custom or so close it doesnt matter.

It has less output and less bass than a Super Distortion. The Super distortion was Iron Maiden, Judas Priest kind of sound, maybe the scorpions. The Tone zone is more modern with more bass and harmonics that werent there in early 80s.

In my experience, the guitar speaker makes a bigger difference on the recorded sound than the amp itself. I think most of those guys were using 75s, I think Eddie used greenbacks. I don't believe the V30 was around back then, its more of the modern metal sound.

[Tashez]

Weren't all the drums run off triggers in those days too. I remember reading all the studio mags back then and the drummers were always talking about triggers. When did those die out.

[drtechno]

no triggers. It was all accustical drums, unless you were pop like the band ABC.

You see I too want to go back to the old metal standard.
reasons of creating listening experience.

dynamic range is more important than loundness because why--- well you wanted the radio listener of your song say: "cool ! this songs on !! lets crank it !!"

there was no loudness war. and quite frankly, super-compressing takes away from the mix and the experience.

Lets start off with monitoring. back in the day, before all that fancy gizmos that were used to tune the room we would play (usually a record) some music that had alot of everything. I personally used 'Have A Cigar' by Pink Floyd. used an eq between my console and amp and tune the eq such a way that it was sounded good punchy and a little warm. the reason behind this was the exact opposite effect the monitor to mix tone happens and I played off of that. when mixing turn the speaker amp all the way up.
set up another monitor chain containing a single 15" horn and suspend it without a box


when tracking guitars two mics one on the outside edge pointing into the center of the cone the other in the center 2 feet from the speaker enclosure. Remove back panel of speaker enclosure. when you mix send the up close mic to verb/delay and only compress the distant mic in the center. pan verbbed channel to one side and the dry opposite. then switch monitoring to mono speaker now adjust the tone clashes.


One of the techniques was to weave the channels that were verb back and forth (wet left dry right on one instrument and then switch wet right and dry left on another)


Verb was one of several things that contributed, but mixture of micing techniques and not so much compression achieved that sound.


If you want to create the timeless mixes of old... just listen to the right channel mix and compare to left channel then hear the tonal contour from mono to stereo. Study the elements and recreate those elements by keeping the concept that this is a musical composition. Not a TV commercial.

you should have no less than 12db of dynamic range and no more than 30db.
when mastering.

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by drtechno

no triggers. It was all accustical drums, unless you were pop like the band ABC.

You see I too want to go back to the old metal standard.
reasons of creating listening experience.

dynamic range is more important than loundness because why--- well you wanted the radio listener of your song say: "cool ! this songs on !! lets crank it !!"

there was no loudness war. and quite frankly, super-compressing takes away from the mix and the experience.

Lets start off with monitoring. back in the day, before all that fancy gizmos that were used to tune the room we would play (usually a record) some music that had alot of everything. I personally used 'Have A Cigar' by Pink Floyd. used an eq between my console and amp and tune the eq such a way that it was sounded good punchy and a little warm. the reason behind this was the exact opposite effect the monitor to mix tone happens and I played off of that. when mixing turn the speaker amp all the way up.
set up another monitor chain containing a single 15" horn and suspend it without a box


when tracking guitars two mics one on the outside edge pointing into the center of the cone the other in the center 2 feet from the speaker enclosure. Remove back panel of speaker enclosure. when you mix send the up close mic to verb/delay and only compress the distant mic in the center. pan verbbed channel to one side and the dry opposite. then switch monitoring to mono speaker now adjust the tone clashes.


One of the techniques was to weave the channels that were verb back and forth (wet left dry right on one instrument and then switch wet right and dry left on another)


Verb was one of several things that contributed, but mixture of micing techniques and not so much compression achieved that sound.


If you want to create the timeless mixes of old... just listen to the right channel mix and compare to left channel then hear the tonal contour from mono to stereo. Study the elements and recreate those elements by keeping the concept that this is a musical composition. Not a TV commercial.

you should have no less than 12db of dynamic range and no more than 30db.
when mastering.

Miced that way, how did you deal with phase issues?

[Speeddemon]

Originally Posted by SabreChris

The ADA-MP1 came out in 1987, it was late to the party. The most important part of the tone of that era is the speaker, imo.

Well, steelwizard *did* ask about the late 80's metal tone.
ANyway, do NOT use a ToneZone pickup, that's totally NOT 80's sounding!
A DiMarzio Norton OTOH will get you in the right ballpark.

[drtechno]

Originally Posted by SabreChris

Miced that way, how did you deal with phase issues?

well, I wore isolation headphones and piviot and moved around my mics wile I was soloing them plus the fx. on the fx depending where I was at, and who stuff I was using, I would have to play with the phase switches on the return channel.

Later 80's, the spx50D in guitar stack line in the stereo fx and single mic 57 became popular.


oh yea, btw -18 to -14 was the norm on master VU

[Tashez]

Originally Posted by drtechno

no triggers. It was all accustical drums, unless you were pop like the band ABC.

You see I too want to go back to the old metal standard.
reasons of creating listening experience.

dynamic range is more important than loundness because why--- well you wanted the radio listener of your song say: "cool ! this songs on !! lets crank it !!"

there was no loudness war. and quite frankly, super-compressing takes away from the mix and the experience.

Lets start off with monitoring. back in the day, before all that fancy gizmos that were used to tune the room we would play (usually a record) some music that had alot of everything. I personally used 'Have A Cigar' by Pink Floyd. used an eq between my console and amp and tune the eq such a way that it was sounded good punchy and a little warm. the reason behind this was the exact opposite effect the monitor to mix tone happens and I played off of that. when mixing turn the speaker amp all the way up.
set up another monitor chain containing a single 15" horn and suspend it without a box


when tracking guitars two mics one on the outside edge pointing into the center of the cone the other in the center 2 feet from the speaker enclosure. Remove back panel of speaker enclosure. when you mix send the up close mic to verb/delay and only compress the distant mic in the center. pan verbbed channel to one side and the dry opposite. then switch monitoring to mono speaker now adjust the tone clashes.


One of the techniques was to weave the channels that were verb back and forth (wet left dry right on one instrument and then switch wet right and dry left on another)


Verb was one of several things that contributed, but mixture of micing techniques and not so much compression achieved that sound.


If you want to create the timeless mixes of old... just listen to the right channel mix and compare to left channel then hear the tonal contour from mono to stereo. Study the elements and recreate those elements by keeping the concept that this is a musical composition. Not a TV commercial.

you should have no less than 12db of dynamic range and no more than 30db.
when mastering.

No they were triggered drums . When they started to trigger it was big news as it suddenly made drum recording easy .Your confusing electronic drums with triggers .

[Mario-C.]

Anyone remembers those Forat things ?

[drtechno]

Originally Posted by Tashez

No they were triggered drums . When they started to trigger it was big news as it suddenly made drum recording easy .Your confusing electronic drums with triggers .

um 8 bit drums were 8 bit drums no matter how you sliced that.

and the one who used such things didn't know how to record drums in the first place. they sounded like crap and usually after they pull thier head out they mic the kit with a D12 and SM7's and get it over with.

and yes there were few, mind you few, who use the electronic drum modules with microphone and mixed the combination of the two to try to get rid of the 8 bit drum crappyness.

[steelwizard]

Triggered drums aint no option to me, so this doesnt really matter. But yes, I've also noticed some Drum computers on some 80s Metal records. They didn't sound as realistic (of course) as they do now but sometimes they do sound pretty cool.

Originally Posted by Speeddemon

Well, steelwizard *did* ask about the late 80's metal tone.
ANyway, do NOT use a ToneZone pickup, that's totally NOT 80's sounding!
A DiMarzio Norton OTOH will get you in the right ballpark.

It's the stock bridge pickup in my Charvel So-Cal. It sounds pretty good plugged straight into the amp. When I use my SD-1 for some boost (Drive always between zero and 9 o'clock, tone 12 o clock) it gets somewhat harsh (I think it's exactly what SabreChris means by "too raspy"). It's my first experience with pickups that hot, so I wonder if this is has something to do with the output leve. I'm about to uprade my good old Jackson Kelly (KE3, the old model, somewhat rugged, the electric parts and the floyd don't work that well anymore. But I love that guitar because it actually sounds great and also plays great, so I'm ready to pay some money to get it working again instead of just buying a new one.) As I said it's the old model so it's only got the Duncan Designed pickups which somewhat muffled. Those pickups do not have a lot of output (I wonder what specs those Duncan Designed Pickups have and what they can be compared to), so I really have to crank the SD-1. This gets me a the about the same amount of gain as the Tone Zone with Drive on 9 o'clock, but sounds much smoother, more brown sound while the Tone Zone takes me to "Mr Scary"-mode (just to give you a very crude coparison.) Of course the fact, that the pickups sound somewhat muffled might be one reason, but I thought it might also correlate with the output level. Anyway, I'm thinking about replacing those PUs since I got that guitar. Maybe with a Super Distortion in the Bridge. OR maybe with a classic PAF style pickup, but in general I don't wan't boos too much because it generates noise floor (I don't have a noise gate in my guitar setup and I don't want to get one because playing guitar with a gate just doesn't feel good). Or something Mid output. I also thought about the X2N which seems to have a ridiculously high output so maybe I wouldn't need a boost pedal at all. I guess I have to try out some guitars with the pickups I mentioned - and maybe the custom custom. Rolling back on the Treble controls doesn't work because that takes away too much high end and harmonics. At the end of the day I love having a bright guitar tone, but it gets a bit too harsh, although it still sounds great with the Greenbacks. (With T75s it'd be a nightmare for sure) Seems like I'm going a bit Off-Topic in my own thread, don't wanna talk to much about guitar gear but this seems worth mentioning.

set up another monitor chain containing a single 15" horn and suspend it without a box

Just to have a mono-monitor or because of the characteristics of a horn speaker?

when tracking guitars two mics one on the outside edge pointing into the center of the cone the other in the center 2 feet from the speaker enclosure. Remove back panel of speaker enclosure. when you mix send the up close mic to verb/delay and only compress the distant mic in the center. pan verbbed channel to one side and the dry opposite. then switch monitoring to mono speaker now adjust the tone clashes.

I didn't know this one. Sounds interesting. Posts like yours are the reason I started this thread - earning about more than just the obvious stuff (Like "Gated Reverb on the snare") and also general 80s metal production brainstorming.

And of course the tape question. I wonder if it's possible to get that 80's metal sound with digital recording. I'd love to work with tape but as we all know even the tape material itself is expensive and servicing those machines seems like quite a hassle, especially the smaller ones.
(although I think I could do it as I'm pretty good at working with general and the service manuals I found on the internet don't seem like rocket science. MRLs are still available and getting something that does the job of a oscilloscope and a sine wave generator shouldn't be a problem in the digital age. I don't know where to get a distortion meter hower. But it's always something different if you have to actually do something.)
And I wonder how long it'll be possible to get new tapes. The only ones you can still get new, at least in germany, are RMG 900 and RMG 911, and I'm not quite sure if they are still in production (I doubt it) or if they're just selling new old stock stuff. So I'm trying to find a way around analog recording (And also around using a computer, using a computer is the biggest hassle of them all. But again, this isn't about ergonomics :D)
But in the end the sound is what matters.
Wasn't "Love On First Sting" an early digital recording? This one sounds very good. In my case it's one of those very old rugged record so the vinyl itself adds changes the sound a lot it's hard to tell how it would sound straight from the master.

Originally Posted by smili

Edit: I'd also say the VH clip is worlds different from the others to my ears. It's drums and guitars, with just a little bit of bass - or seems that way. Not sure how to classify it, but Ed's guitar is clearer/rawer - the others have more of a saturation that takes away the chiminess - again - at least to my ears.

Ed's guitar sounds like Ed's guitar and on that record he had his best tone IMO. And that exciting chiminess is the best thing about that tone. (Btw, the same chiminess I'm talking about is also very present on "Achilles Last Stand" by Led Zepplin, but to go into this in detail would take us too far afield. But it's interesting that Jimmy Page also used a Phase 90 for some parts of this song. It's characteristic midrange might also be a factor I thought.) When I go out to test gear or when I'm dialing in a tone I always play chords on the high string like they're used in Running With The Devil, Jamies Cryin or Achilles Last Stand. The great thing about the Tone on VH I - those highs/high mids we're talking about are low gain enough to still ring like they should but they're still pretty distorted so they sound "sparkling". If you know what I mean, usually no one understands what exactly I'm talking about.
Anyway, all those examples sound different and that a good thing because it helps focussing on the sound elements and charistics I want to achieve. They all have them, except the negative examples of course.


Something I'm wondering about for a long time - when comparing different records by the same bands often there's a drastic change in sound. Like between "Under Lock And Key" and "Back For The Attack". I love the production ...Lock And Key has, but I don't like the one on Back... as much as I mentioned before. The guitars tone sound too harsh and a tad too distorted on this one, but that's not the main problem. It's something else about it. Don't get me wrong, it still sounds good, but it's a good example. Or maybe a example by the best band of all time and space - Defenders Of The Faith still has all the characteristics I'm talking about. Turbo also does. It changed with Ram It Down and even more with Painkiller. Or the Vicious Rumors example already posted above, comparing the sound of "Soldiers Of The Night" and "Digital Dictator" with the 1991 s/t album. Of course the latter has a much more modern and polished production in general, and there's more loudness. That's obvious, but not really what I'm talking about. When "dissassembling" and analyzing those productions in my head, I've noticed that those albums seem to have a wider, more "hifi" and also more flat sounding frequency range, which totally changes the character of the whole everything. They also sound less warm. My positive examples all have this kind of magic "film" on the sound. You see, I can't seem to put it into words but if it was that easy...
I thought maybe this is what digital recording does to the sound. Or it's something else. Anyway, there's something missing or different and I've always noticed that, even back when I was like 12 years old and just starting to discover the world of heavy metal beyond AC/DC. The 80's and earlier albums always had something charming about their sound that can't be found on new recordings. I can't tell WHAT it is but it's easy to notice. Another very famous non-metal example - "Making Movies" compared "Brothers In Arms". (But "Brothers In Arms" sounds perfect anyway. It's really a good example for what's great about digital. And the songs on that album really need that hi-fi character).
Maybe it's really the tape/the lack of tape what I'm talking about. Hard to tell if you can't test it yourself. I don't even have a goddamn cassette deck that's working. And maybe I'm wrong and it's something different.
Very well possible - Sometimes theres (new) stuff I know that it was mastered to tape or even all the tracks bounced to tape and it still hasn't got what I'm missing. Maybe the really high class tapes machines are just too good/accurate to sound that way. Or it just doesn't work because all the other elements (like for example the use of reverb) of the magic sound are missing and of course in the ends it's always a combination of all the elements. Bottom line, I don't know what exactly I'm hearing, but I'm hearing it.
The digital age of course offers a huge flexibility. Someone who has all the analog gear could record all analog, or maybe track digital and master to tape. Or track analog and master to digital. (Sooner or later you'll need to get the song into the digital domain anyway for reproduction.) What are the sonic differences between those methods? Sometime ago someone on here wrote a digital recording mastered to tape will still sound like a digital recording.

Now this post got pretty long-winded (and took me ages to write it) as it is talking a lot about things that are hard to describe. I hope you'll read it anyway and also thank you for all the replys I've got so far.
And note, that I don't want to put down the stuff I've listed as "negative" examples, I might not like them as much as the "positive" ones but actually they're still great.

[mr. torture]

Best Christmas song ever! 220 Volt - Heavy Christmas (Bonus) - YouTube

[steelwizard]

Originally Posted by mr. torture

Best Christmas song ever! 220 Volt - Heavy Christmas (Bonus) - YouTube

Of course it is! It can take a while until you get to the end of that album. "Firefall" and "Mistreated Eyes" always seem to talk to me - "repeat me! repeat me!"

[dfahb44]

80's metal sounded awful. The only example I can think that sounds outstanding off of the top of my head is

Slayer - "Reign in Blood"

Because it doesn't sound like an 80's produced record. Judas Priests "British Steel" was almost there, but the whole album had a really bad mid honk. Better than the 80's super scooped sound I suppose.

[mr. torture]

Originally Posted by dfahb44

80's metal sounded awful. The only example I can think that sounds outstanding off of the top of my head is

Slayer - "Reign in Blood"

Because it doesn't sound like an 80's produced record. Judas Priests "British Steel" was almost there, but the whole album had a really bad mid honk. Better than the 80's super scooped sound I suppose.

Slayer and thrash metal in general sounded horrible in my opinion. I thought the 80's metal stuff was way slicker. Accept, Maiden, Priest all had superior sounding albums. Of course the musicians were better too.

[dubmunkey]

Originally Posted by drtechno

no triggers. It was all accustical drums, unless you were pop like the band ABC.

You see I too want to go back to the old metal standard.
reasons of creating listening experience.

dynamic range is more important than loundness because why--- well you wanted the radio listener of your song say: "cool ! this songs on !! lets crank it !!"

there was no loudness war. and quite frankly, super-compressing takes away from the mix and the experience.

Lets start off with monitoring. back in the day, before all that fancy gizmos that were used to tune the room we would play (usually a record) some music that had alot of everything. I personally used 'Have A Cigar' by Pink Floyd. used an eq between my console and amp and tune the eq such a way that it was sounded good punchy and a little warm. the reason behind this was the exact opposite effect the monitor to mix tone happens and I played off of that. when mixing turn the speaker amp all the way up.
set up another monitor chain containing a single 15" horn and suspend it without a box


when tracking guitars two mics one on the outside edge pointing into the center of the cone the other in the center 2 feet from the speaker enclosure. Remove back panel of speaker enclosure. when you mix send the up close mic to verb/delay and only compress the distant mic in the center. pan verbbed channel to one side and the dry opposite. then switch monitoring to mono speaker now adjust the tone clashes.


One of the techniques was to weave the channels that were verb back and forth (wet left dry right on one instrument and then switch wet right and dry left on another)

Whilst not metal you can hear this on appetite for destruction.

[dubmunkey]

Originally Posted by drtechno

when tracking guitars two mics one on the outside edge pointing into the center of the cone the other in the center 2 feet from the speaker enclosure. Remove back panel of speaker enclosure. when you mix send the up close mic to verb/delay and only compress the distant mic in the center. pan verbbed channel to one side and the dry opposite. then switch monitoring to mono speaker now adjust .

Sorry but do you mean mic the back of the cab?

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by SabreChris

Eddie used Duncan Custom Custom back then. Its really trebly but it doesnt have the top sparkle.

??Is this true? Almost anyone connected says that on the first album Van Halen used an old 50 watt Plexi amp. And Eddie repeated in numerous interviews that Ted Templeton drenched the guitars in reverb - and that gave it that 'end of the world' tone (EVH words).

And on top of that...that was the late 70's not the 80's.<G>