Apogee duet 2 vs dedicated mic pre + other AD

[eplust]

I can vouch for the Duet's quality; it's exactly how you've described it. now the optimal setup would obviously be purchasing dedicated pre's, and generally maximizing quality at each stage of signal flow. sadly, since we find ourselves in this subforum, low budget is our reality

i've found duet to be the best bang for the buck for sound quality (i prefer it to the MOTU, RME, and Digi gear I've used). it'll also retain its value as your budget increases; as you continue building your studio you may opt for more I/O, but the duet's always great as a high-end portable interface too

[hopeless_opus]

I faced this exact decision for my little home writing/tracking set up a year and a half or so ago. At the time, I had a pair of high end pres and over the years went thru several interfaces, mbox, digi002, and profire610. For whatever reason, I was never totally happy with the results and spent a lot of time obsessing about making gear changes.

Eventually, when Apogee released the Duet 2, I decided to sell the profire610 and upgrade. My original intention was to only use the Duet 2 for it's converters, however, for simplicity sake, I began using the pres. After a while, I ended up selling the high end pres to finance something else. I'd love to get another set of high end pres at some point in the future, but in the meantime the Duet's pres are totally solid.

There are a few downsides to going this route. It takes using outboard gear during tracking out of the equation, and doing things like reamping is a little trickier. In the end I decided that the sound outweighs any inconvenience. But if you want to use compressors, etc, during tracking you're better off going the other route.

[Call_me_Switters]

You all folks maybe right. Maybe Duet 2 sounds like gold! I am not a MAC user, so I have never had the chance to use it.
But I could never convince myself to give back my ISA one, with the pretty VU meter, the full sized gain controller, the impedance switches, the pad, the fantom button and all that for a gizmo like that, in a studio situation.
Sometimes size matters! Even as an obsession or simply ergonomically!

Not to mention that sound really stellar, although without direct comparison to the Apogee's little interface.

[hopeless_opus]

LOL, I definitely struggled with that at first. I kept the preamps around on the desk for quite a while before finally committing to selling them. You get used to the clean desk after a while.

I'm not saying the Duet pres are the same as a set of high end transformer balanced pres, they're not. They are however really nice clean pres with a little warmth to them. For me, the simplicity and sound of the the Duet's pres and converters has worked better than the high end preamp with lesser converters combination did, ymmv.

Now, if I could only settle on a set of monitors as easily, all would be good...

[joshscribble]

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

Eventually, when Apogee released the Duet 2, I decided to sell the profire610 and upgrade. My original intention was to only use the Duet 2 for it's converters, however, for simplicity sake, I began using the pres. After a while, I ended up selling the high end pres to finance something else. I'd love to get another set of high end pres at some point in the future, but in the meantime the Duet's pres are totally solid.

There are a few downsides to going this route. It takes using outboard gear during tracking out of the equation, and doing things like reamping is a little trickier. In the end I decided that the sound outweighs any inconvenience. But if you want to use compressors, etc, during tracking you're better off going the other route.

That's awesome to hear. Thanks for that. Exactly the scenario I find myself potentially facing. To hear you ended up taking your high end pres out of the equation and are happy with the quality is very reassuring. I've got a budget, but more important than the budget is making the right choice sonically. Sounds like a solid choice.

cheers,
j

[joshscribble]

Originally Posted by Call_me_Switters

You all folks maybe right. Maybe Duet 2 sounds like gold! I am not a MAC user, so I have never had the chance to use it.
But I could never convince myself to give back my ISA one, with the pretty VU meter, the full sized gain controller, the impedance switches, the pad, the fantom button and all that for a gizmo like that, in a studio situation.
Sometimes size matters! Even as an obsession or simply ergonomically!

Not to mention that sound really stellar, although without direct comparison to the Apogee's little interface.

Hey mate, thanks for that. Did you get the standard ISA one, or go for the AD converter mod? Curious about what you use as the converter for your pre and how you feel this effects your sound as this is one of the benefits of the duet having both pre and AD built in. Sounds like you don't have a problem with the amount of noise you're hearing in your mix?

cheers,
j

[Call_me_Switters]

Originally Posted by joshscribble

Hey mate, thanks for that. Did you get the standard ISA one, or go for the AD converter mod? Curious about what you use as the converter for your pre and how you feel this effects your sound as this is one of the benefits of the duet having both pre and AD built in. Sounds like you don't have a problem with the amount of noise you're hearing in your mix?

cheers,
j

I got the ISA one digital hooked through SPDIF. So yes I use the Focusrite converter. But even If I had the pre rooted to an external converter such as ADI, why should I have noise in my mix? ISA is clean as hell and the AD sounds pretty nice and transparent. I also have the same way an Audient Mico.
There is no benefit on build in pres and ADs! Where did you read that?

I also have an external DA converter from Sonifex. Should I also have problems there because its not "build in"?

Or if we go in the upper floor an 1073 rooted to a Lavry introduces more noise than the Duet?


Duet is great , if I got a MAC it would be in my back pocket, but let's get real. A dedicated pre and/with AD might not be such a huge leap, but definitely it could sound better, without more noise and it will help you on various recordings from an "easy to use" point of view, plus all the controls and options.

[joshscribble]

Originally Posted by Call_me_Switters

I got the ISA one digital hooked through SPDIF. So yes I use the Focusrite converter. But even If I had the pre rooted to an external converter such as ADI, why should I have noise in my mix? ISA is clean as hell and the AD sounds pretty nice and transparent. I also have the same way an Audient Mico.
There is no benefit on build in pres and ADs! Where did you read that?

I also have an external DA converter from Sonifex. Should I also have problems there because its not "build in"?

Or if we go in the upper floor an 1073 rooted to a Lavry introduces more noise than the Duet?

Hehe... Sorry man... Maybe what I wrote was a bit confusing. I didn't mean that built-in is inherently better as a rule or anything remotely close. This whole thread runs contrary to that. All I meant by "built-in AD as a benefit" is: 1/ cost and 2/ that with the apogee the AD conversion is a known entity. A lot of people have good pres running into not so good converters.

I've been advised that if I'm going to invest in a decent mic pre then there's little point if I'm going to ruin the chain with a dodgy converter... I'm prepared to pay extra if it's worth doing so, but that's where my extra cost might come from, hence my questions. Make sense?

An engineer advised me that a way to keep costs down with a high quality super clean base system was to go with the apogee because it would upgrade both my pres and my AD as opposed to me having to shell out a bunch of extra cash for both as separate units. I've heard good things about the ISA and other pres too so my question regarding the ISA with the converter was simply to gauge how you used it, what your experience was with it and whether it's worth my shelling out the extra cash for it over the duet. Sounds like it's clean so that's interesting.

Essentially, I'm asking for votes of agreement, or reasons to spend the extra cash. I'm happy to be swayed either way.

cheers,

[Call_me_Switters]

Originally Posted by joshscribble

Hehe... Sorry man... Maybe what I wrote was a bit confusing. I didn't mean that built-in is inherently better as a rule or anything remotely close. This whole thread runs contrary to that. All I meant by "built-in AD as a benefit" is: 1/ cost and 2/ that with the apogee the AD conversion is a known entity. A lot of people have good pres running into not so good converters.

I've been advised that if I'm going to invest in a decent mic pre then there's little point if I'm going to ruin the chain with a dodgy converter... I'm prepared to pay extra if it's worth doing so, but that's where my extra cost might come from, hence my questions. Make sense?

An engineer advised me that a way to keep costs down with a high quality super clean base system was to go with the apogee because it would upgrade both my pres and my AD as opposed to me having to shell out a bunch of extra cash for both as separate units. I've heard good things about the ISA and other pres too so my question regarding the ISA with the converter was simply to gauge how you used it, what your experience was with it and whether it's worth my shelling out the extra cash for it over the duet. Sounds like it's clean so that's interesting.

Essentially, I'm asking for votes of agreement, or reasons to spend the extra cash. I'm happy to be swayed either way.

cheers,

Oh,now it makes sense!

I prefer an expandable than a replaceable system. If you go for the Duet you will have a great sounding sweet interface. But in the future if you need more I/Os, to try an other pre or to upgrade your converters you will need to sell it and start from square one. If you go for a seperate convert and preamp, in the future, depending on your needs you could add or replace separate units and not all your system.

[joshscribble]

Originally Posted by Call_me_Switters

I prefer an expandable than a replaceable system. If you go for the Duet you will have a great sounding sweet interface. But in the future if you need more I/Os, to try an other pre or to upgrade your converters you will need to sell it and start from square one. If you go for a seperate convert and preamp, in the future, depending on your needs you could add or replace separate units and not all your system.

hmm... Good point regarding the upgrade path and flexibility. Definitely worth thinking about.

[RCM - Ronan]

The Duet 2 is an outstanding piece of gear, and stunning for its price point. The conversion is great and the mic pres are surprisingly good. They are on the clean side. I did some blind A-B testing against some Millennia mic pres, and while the Millennia won in the end, it was not a blow out. The Apogee pres were very close in quality.

Using the Duet 2 pres and upgrading your mic is a VERY good plan.

[Call_me_Switters]

Originally Posted by RCM - Ronan

The Duet 2 is an outstanding piece of gear, and stunning for its price point. The conversion is great and the mic pres are surprisingly good. They are on the clean side. I did some blind A-B testing against some Millennia mic pres, and while the Millennia won in the end, it was not a blow out. The Apogee pres were very close in quality.

Using the Duet 2 pres and upgrading your mic is a VERY good plan.

I just can't consider a studio built around an one inch gizmo! It's crazy! It certainly sounds great but when the hardware compressor or this warn tube preamp will jump in the house, where would you put it?

[hopeless_opus]

Unlike most small format interfaces, you can fully bypass the built-in preamps on the Duet 2. So if one were to acquire more front end gear, preamps, compressors, etc, you can still use the Duet 2 for it's converters. That was my original intention when I got it. Don't get me wrong, if I had the dough, I'd definitely be looking at putting a 500 series rack together to run in front of it. However, as things are, I can't complain about what the Duet 2 delivers on it's own.

It all comes down to what your needs are. If all you need is a great sounding two channel interface for tracking at home, then I don't think you can do any better. If your intention is to build up a complete studio rig, with 16+ inputs and lots of rack gear, then no, the Duet 2 isn't gonna be the answer.

[joshscribble]

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

Unlike most small format interfaces, you can fully bypass the built-in preamps on the Duet 2. So if one were to acquire more front end gear, preamps, compressors, etc, you can still use the Duet 2 for it's converters. That was my original intention when I got it. Don't get me wrong, if I had the dough, I'd definitely be looking at putting a 500 series rack together to run in front of it. However, as things are, I can't complain about what the Duet 2 delivers on it's own.

It all comes down to what your needs are. If all you need is a great sounding two channel interface for tracking at home, then I don't think you can do any better. If your intention is to build up a complete studio rig, with 16+ inputs and lots of rack gear, then no, the Duet 2 isn't gonna be the answer.

That's really interesting - didn't know you could bypass the pres. People always seem impressed with the converters so if I've got the option to add some colour preamps later on with perhaps tubes or nice compression and simply continue to use the duet as a converter that would be a great option.

I really don't need the extra channels, just quality sound for mainly vocals and acoustic. The only other things I'll be doing is perhaps a little amp mic'ing and bits of percussion here and there.

I'd love to be able to put a little more into a mic/ or two

All these responses are REALLY helpful! Thank you all. Every opinion for and against definitely helps to round out my understanding of my choices. Much appreciated.

[Call_me_Switters]

Touché!
I didn't know also that you could bypass the preamps. If the OP is fine with 2 ch. and happy with pres and converters I +1 the Duet 2.

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by Call_me_Switters

I just can't consider a studio built around an one inch gizmo! It's crazy! It certainly sounds great but when the hardware compressor or this warn tube preamp will jump in the house, where would you put it?

True, you loose a bit of flexibility. But for some one that wants great quality with a small foot print and without spending a bunch of money, its a pretty great option.

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by RCM - Ronan

The Duet 2 is an outstanding piece of gear, and stunning for its price point. The conversion is great and the mic pres are surprisingly good. They are on the clean side. I did some blind A-B testing against some Millennia mic pres, and while the Millennia won in the end, it was not a blow out. The Apogee pres were very close in quality.

Using the Duet 2 pres and upgrading your mic is a VERY good plan.

[joshscribble]

SOLD! Thanks everyone.

[joshscribble]

... now to narrow down mic choices!

[cserrano]

Is the Duet's ADC conversion going to be inferior to a stand alone converter? There are stand alone converters now that cost less than an Apogee Duet 2, like Ross Martin's ADC 4222 - but then I'd also have to buy a decent DAC. But because of simplicity's sake I am so tempted to just buy the Duet 2 and be done with it all.

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by cserrano

Is the Duet's ADC conversion going to be inferior to a stand alone converter? There are stand alone converters now that cost less than an Apogee Duet 2, like Ross Martin's ADC 4222 - but then I'd also have to buy a decent DAC. But because of simplicity's sake I am so tempted to just buy the Duet 2 and be done with it all.

what are your needs? You can pick up a used Duet 1 for $300 all day... quality has never been so affordable!

[fastfwdd]

forget about the Ross Martin, from my experience the Duet 2 converters are best-in-class

[Dpro]

Originally Posted by cserrano

Is the Duet's ADC conversion going to be inferior to a stand alone converter? There are stand alone converters now that cost less than an Apogee Duet 2, like Ross Martin's ADC 4222 - but then I'd also have to buy a decent DAC. But because of simplicity's sake I am so tempted to just buy the Duet 2 and be done with it all.

Duet 2 has superior conversion to the Duet 1, It's AD is 114db A weighted. Which is pretty much up there in the $1500-2k range and the DA is 123db A weighted which is absolutely phenomenal for its price range.
There is nothing to sneeze at in this unit its best in class at its price point. A RME Babyface will cost more.
I looked at the Ross Martin unit and while it looked good for the money it did not solve enough of the equation. IMO

I actually picked up a Quartet because I wanted to step up conversion and wanted at least 4 in. I track mostly vocals at my place so 4 inputs plus having the an extra 8 via Adat made it doable.

The unit is amazing and specs out AD/DA wise just like the Duet 2 though it might have an edge in the analog section following the DA.

Its a great unit and I am totally happy I stepped up to the Apogee converters with 4 great mic pres's to boot. I also use external mic pres( Warm Audio WA12) but have not taken the time yet to compare them.

In short you won't go wrong using a Duet 2 conversion wise.

[cserrano]

Thanks Dpro. This is great to hear. I will definitely be using outboard pres with the Duet 1 or 2. I also enjoyed the WA12 while I had it and I'm considering buying it again. Conversion is the last thing in my chain that I needed to give some attention to. I ended up getting both the Duet 1 and 2 and I'll A/B them to listen for a difference in quality.

[nixoblivion]

So. Have you compared them yet? Are thez much different?

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk

[cserrano]

I will be doing that this week and will let you all know.