Fmr rnc to 1/4" patchbay

[jrakarl]

I'm just about to do this myself.
My plan is to simply have the positive and earth (mono ts) at the FMR end wired to hot and earth at the patch bay end, ie missing the neutral.

Is your patching bay: 1 integrated into a console (like mine), or; 2 a solder type (where you have to solder cable to terminals at the back of the patch bay) or ; 3 a plug type (where you plug your cable via a TRS into the back of the patch bay)?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Kyleseglin]

Originally Posted by jrakarl

I'm just about to do this myself.
My plan is to simply have the positive and earth (mono ts) at the FMR end wired to hot and earth at the patch bay end, ie missing the neutral.

Is your patching bay: 1 integrated into a console (like mine), or; 2 a solder type (where you have to solder cable to terminals at the back of the patch bay) or ; 3 a plug type (where you plug your cable via a TRS into the back of the patch bay)?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

It's a 1/4" balanced trs bay. I appreciate your feedback but I dont understand the grounding earth etc terms would you be able to say what you're saying telling me if I need ts trs or xlr ? Ha thanms

[mynaemisjonas]

I have a 4 channel cable made by redco, TS to 2 male XLR and 2 female XLR.

Its short, and I'll sell it to any interested parties.

[mynaemisjonas]

If you dont need it to terminate to XLR, call or email redco audio and they will make you a proper cable for this.

Professional Recording Equipment Accessories: Shop Our Selection of Audio Equipment Accessories, Custom Engraved Panels and Custom Audio Cables - Redco Audio Professional Audio Equipment Accessories

Believe it.

[Kyleseglin]

Anyone else got any suggestions? The instruction manual doesn't say anything about patchbays and seems vague in general

[jrakarl]

Originally Posted by Kyleseglin

It's a 1/4" balanced trs bay. I appreciate your feedback but I dont understand the grounding earth etc terms would you be able to say what you're saying telling me if I need ts trs or xlr ? Ha thanms

If your patching bay is TRS at the back, just use a normal mono jacket between the RNC and the patch bay. See if that works....

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by Kyleseglin

Anyone else got any suggestions? The instruction manual doesn't say anything about patchbays and seems vague in general

The manual isn't vague at all. Use unbalanced cables unless you use it as an insert, which can be done with a single TRS cable.

[Kyleseglin]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

The manual isn't vague at all. Use unbalanced cables unless you use it as an insert, which can be done with a single TRS cable.

What's an insert? Does that mean the part of the patchbay or only in a console

[axeman_uk]

if you had a mixing desk then you would use an insert this is basically a lead which has a stereo jack at one end (+ , - ,ground) connected to two mono jacks at the other sharing the ground of the stereo jack.one af the mono jacks ground and + , the other ground and -

the stereo jack would go in the mixing desk in the instert and the signal would flow down the lead to one of the mono jacks go through the compressor/ effect ,come back out of that via the other mono jack and return back to the stereo jack.

if your patchbay is mono then use a mono lead out of the rnc to the patchbay and a mono return lead out of the patchbay back to the compressor, thus creating a circuit for you to patch into.

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by Kyleseglin

What's an insert? Does that mean the part of the patchbay or only in a console

Let's slow down a minute here. We're going to go off on a tangent...

First off, congratulations on starting off right with a patchbay. I have been through many re-wiring days and except for moves, it was to integrate a new piece of gear. The patchbay has always sped that process up. Now, I'm at a point where I need to break out a whole new rack if I want to add anything and that affects my desk etc etc long story...bottom line, you have a long way to go but you're doing the right thing up until that point which is where expansion has to be carefully planned....

Now, you have a couple things to consider before starting this project. I'm not sure where your manley's mic inputs are but if they're in the back, you need some Xlr to trs jump cables (1-1.5ft), get as many as you have mic inputs x2 divided evenly between male and female.

If you have 2 inputs for example, you need 2 Xlr male to trs male and 2 trs female to trs male.

There's a specific way that TRS to XLR cables are wired and it's standardized.

So, you plug male Xlr to your pre input and male trs into the back of your patchbay. Then, use an XLR female plugged onto the mic and plug the trs male into the front on the same slot so the line runs through the patchbay but otherwise is a direct line from the mic to the mic ore input on your pre.

Now, just plug everything else on the back of your gear into the back of your patchbay...

Trs to trs is not an issue because of the way their wired, shield and negative are set up to be interchangeable. You run the risk of additional noise from the trs to ts cord so keep it very short, just long enough to run from your gear to the patchbay without coiling around in a loop and keep it away from power cables and ESP wal-warts as best as you can.

Now, get a pack of 10 1' trs to trs jumper cables. Now all of the plugs from the back of your limiter, compressor, preamp and a/d/a converter are in one convenient place.

Then, it's just a matter of not normaling everything initially, get used to thinking about signal flow by plugging in each piece how you want it to chain each time. Eventually, you will look into half-normaled and how that works and it'll blow you mind but for now, plug everything in every time, the long way, by hand.

So then your chain is mic > mic pre in - mic pre out > Rnc in - Rnc out > RNlc in - RNlc out > apogee in

Then when you mix,
Apogee out > Rnc > RNlc > apogee in

Or dual path and use more outputs and inputs on the apogee if you want to say use the Rnc for drums and the RNlc for the vocals.

Then, you can record those inputs onto new tracks and set something else to go through the apogee out.

just use the patchbay to bring the plugs in the back to the front.

Also, if your Manley pre has one of those Xlr/trs combo inputs, there shouldn't be any difference if you plug your guitar into the patchbay input that routes to a pn Xlr cable that goes to the pre in. The only change might be that the pre has some sort of automatic trs detection that changes the input impedance, consult your manual but I doubt it. All of the pres that I've used all have either mic and 1/4" inputs in the front or the Xlr in back and a ts high impedance input in the front.

You're about to make your rig modular. The other cool thing is its easier to integrate temporary gear with a patchbay because you are only dealing with the back of one unit and you don't want that to be a semi-permanent wiring setup anyway, you just want to quickly plug it in and get sounds. Now you can record a di guitar straight through the Rnc and then use a reamp box to send the output into your pedal board or straight to an amp. Or you can integrate a turntable for sampling temporarily if you don't normally do vinyl to digital transfers or if you are bringing a dj in. Or any other wild thing you come up with. I like to bring my guitar into my computer and affect it with any number of plugins live and then send that out to my amp to record. You get some latency from the plugins but you can optimize and reduce it or just find a cool tone, record the part dry and then apply the effect after the fact. All of this, especially when I'm combining hardware and software or using guitar pedals as plugins etc is possible because of my patchbay.

As for an insert, that only matters if you are using an analog mixing desk, don't worry about it yet and my advise still stands.

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by Kyleseglin

What's an insert? Does that mean the part of the patchbay or only in a console

If you don't know what it is you can probably forget about it. If you need to know I suggest using Google or reading your user manuals.

Just use unbalanced cables going in and out of the RNC and you won't go wrong. TS, not TRS.

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

If you don't know what it is you can probably forget about it. If you need to know I suggest using Google or reading your user manuals.

Just use unbalanced cables going in and out of the RNC and you won't go wrong. TS, not TRS.

Iirc, you can use trs for an unbalanced plug but I may be wrong

[Chrisc_o]

Originally Posted by donsolo

Iirc, you can use trs for an unbalanced plug but I may be wrong

TRS can be used in most gear, but the use of TS only for standard hookup is a special feature of the RNC and RNLA:

FMR Audio RNC FAQ

http://www.fmraudio.com/images/RNCQSV0.50.pdf

TRS on the input bypasses the output for single-cable insert hoopkup. If you want to use the ins and outs then don't use TRS.

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

TRS can be used in most gear, but the use of TS only for standard hookup is a special feature of the RNC and RNLA:

FMR Audio RNC FAQ

http://www.fmraudio.com/images/RNCQSV0.50.pdf

TRS on the input bypasses the output for single-cable insert hoopkup. If you want to use the ins and outs then don't use TRS.

That's actually really neat...

[Kyleseglin]

Originally Posted by donsolo

Let's slow down a minute here. We're going to go off on a tangent...

First off, congratulations on starting off right with a patchbay. I have been through many re-wiring days and except for moves, it was to integrate a new piece of gear. The patchbay has always sped that process up. Now, I'm at a point where I need to break out a whole new rack if I want to add anything and that affects my desk etc etc long story...bottom line, you have a long way to go but you're doing the right thing up until that point which is where expansion has to be carefully planned....

Now, you have a couple things to consider before starting this project. I'm not sure where your manley's mic inputs are but if they're in the back, you need some Xlr to trs jump cables (1-1.5ft), get as many as you have mic inputs x2 divided evenly between male and female.

If you have 2 inputs for example, you need 2 Xlr male to trs male and 2 trs female to trs male.

There's a specific way that TRS to XLR cables are wired and it's standardized.

So, you plug male Xlr to your pre input and male trs into the back of your patchbay. Then, use an XLR female plugged onto the mic and plug the trs male into the front on the same slot so the line runs through the patchbay but otherwise is a direct line from the mic to the mic ore input on your pre.

Now, just plug everything else on the back of your gear into the back of your patchbay...

Trs to trs is not an issue because of the way their wired, shield and negative are set up to be interchangeable. You run the risk of additional noise from the trs to ts cord so keep it very short, just long enough to run from your gear to the patchbay without coiling around in a loop and keep it away from power cables and ESP wal-warts as best as you can.

Now, get a pack of 10 1' trs to trs jumper cables. Now all of the plugs from the back of your limiter, compressor, preamp and a/d/a converter are in one convenient place.

Then, it's just a matter of not normaling everything initially, get used to thinking about signal flow by plugging in each piece how you want it to chain each time. Eventually, you will look into half-normaled and how that works and it'll blow you mind but for now, plug everything in every time, the long way, by hand.

So then your chain is mic > mic pre in - mic pre out > Rnc in - Rnc out > RNlc in - RNlc out > apogee in

Then when you mix,
Apogee out > Rnc > RNlc > apogee in

Or dual path and use more outputs and inputs on the apogee if you want to say use the Rnc for drums and the RNlc for the vocals.

Then, you can record those inputs onto new tracks and set something else to go through the apogee out.

just use the patchbay to bring the plugs in the back to the front.

Also, if your Manley pre has one of those Xlr/trs combo inputs, there shouldn't be any difference if you plug your guitar into the patchbay input that routes to a pn Xlr cable that goes to the pre in. The only change might be that the pre has some sort of automatic trs detection that changes the input impedance, consult your manual but I doubt it. All of the pres that I've used all have either mic and 1/4" inputs in the front or the Xlr in back and a ts high impedance input in the front.

You're about to make your rig modular. The other cool thing is its easier to integrate temporary gear with a patchbay because you are only dealing with the back of one unit and you don't want that to be a semi-permanent wiring setup anyway, you just want to quickly plug it in and get sounds. Now you can record a di guitar straight through the Rnc and then use a reamp box to send the output into your pedal board or straight to an amp. Or you can integrate a turntable for sampling temporarily if you don't normally do vinyl to digital transfers or if you are bringing a dj in. Or any other wild thing you come up with. I like to bring my guitar into my computer and affect it with any number of plugins live and then send that out to my amp to record. You get some latency from the plugins but you can optimize and reduce it or just find a cool tone, record the part dry and then apply the effect after the fact. All of this, especially when I'm combining hardware and software or using guitar pedals as plugins etc is possible because of my patchbay.

As for an insert, that only matters if you are using an analog mixing desk, don't worry about it yet and my advise still stands.

Thank you so much that was so helpful-- I'm getting there still figuring out how I want it to be

[Kyleseglin]

Does anyone know which type of cables you use for connecting the RNC and RNLA in the front of the patchbay-- TS or TRS?

[Kyleseglin]

Originally Posted by Chrisc_o

TRS can be used in most gear, but the use of TS only for standard hookup is a special feature of the RNC and RNLA:

FMR Audio RNC FAQ

http://www.fmraudio.com/images/RNCQSV0.50.pdf

TRS on the input bypasses the output for single-cable insert hoopkup. If you want to use the ins and outs then don't use TRS.

I'm still having difficulty. I have mono cables connecting the rnc and rnla into the 1/4" balanced patchbay. So do I need to then continue using mono cables in the front of the bay to patch it into my signal flow? I'm not getting any output at all when the rnc or rnla is in the flow.. But without it it's fine. I'm learning as I go.

[Highphi]

I would suggest you use one balanced cable (trs) to connect the RNC/RNLA to the patch bay. This will enable you to use one cable for getting signal both in and out of the compressor. At the patch bay side of things, use an insert cable to patch your other gear into the compressors. Consult the manual once again as I believe this is outlined in it.

[Kyleseglin]

Originally Posted by Highphi

I would suggest you use one balanced cable (trs) to connect the RNC/RNLA to the patch bay. This will enable you to use one cable for getting signal both in and out of the compressor. At the patch bay side of things, use an insert cable to patch your other gear into the compressors. Consult the manual once again as I believe this is outlined in it.

Hm I think the TRS only works with a console as an insert. I'm confused about how the balanced bay effects the signal coming from the unbalanced TS cables going from the compressors to the bay. What type of patch cables get used in the front??

[Highphi]

Because you are using a balanced patchbay that accepts 1/4 trs male phono plugs, one option is to use a balanced trs cable to connect to the RNC. On the front of your patchbay you will need to use a "Y" cable, other wise known as "an insert cable," for connecting your other gear. If you plan on using balanced gear with the RNC you will have to consult the manual for suggestions on making/buying a custom cable that essential unbalances the lines to and from your balanced gear. Hope this helps.

[Highphi]

This page on the FMR Audio website may help outline the many different ways of connecting a RNC to other gear: FMR Audio RNC FAQ