Sm7b + art mpaii

[Moninosis]

I have a very similar question so I'll piggyback and bump this.

Should I get a cloudlifter If I'm using an sm7b with an ART MPA ii? Or will the art preamp suffice?

I haven't used either yet, I imagine the art could handle it but I would get a little less options on the final sound since I'm going to have to add the extra gain somewhere, then again maybe I'll like all the extra gain on the preamp and wouldn't want to bother spending the money on a cloudlifter, would anyone like to weigh in? This is for a podcast/live webcast with a radio aesthetic.

[mattjew24]

Tons of info out there. Try just the MPA. But if its like my MPA Gold, you will get some noise from the preamp at high gain

[KrisHayes]

Gonna be noisy. Those ART units are notoriously trashy sounding, which can be cool! But for a mic that requires so much gain, don't see it being a great combo, unless you're looking for a noisy/low-fi kinda thing. In which case, just use a 58! Haha

[Silent Sound]

I've used this combination many times. I don't know why people keep saying the MPA's are noisy. Maybe they just have bad units or bad tubes. I mean, I have two MPA golds and both are pretty quiet units. In fact, before I got the Cloudlifter, they were the only preamps that I really trusted with my ribbons and SM7b.

So yes, I've used my SM7b with my MPA Gold's many, many times, and never had any noise issues. However, having said that, to me the biggest problem with the SM7b is clarity. I mean, it's a dynamic, not a condenser. As such, I find it works best with a really clear and quick preamp, like all dynamics (in my opinion anyway. Other people may feel differently). Which is why I bought a Cloudlifter, so I could use my SM7b with my BLA Auteur and not have to worry about noise. And that is stunning vocal chain, in my opinion.

If preamp tubes do matter in the MPA, as far as noise is concerned, I'll go ahead and tell you that I have a pair of Telefunken 12ax7's in one unit and a pair of Sylvannia 12ay7's in the other. They have different characteristics but both sound great and have enough gain and a low enough noise floor to use with the SM7b on vocals. Though personally, I suspect a lot of this "the MPA is noisy" rumor is coming from people who either don't own an MPA and are just relaying what they've read, or are people who were expecting the quietest preamp known to man and disappointed that it's behavior is like most other preamps out there. No, it's not as quiet as a Millenia HV-3C. But as far as tube preamps go, it's pretty good! Better than it should be for the money, for sure!

[doncaparker]

I used to own an ART MPA Gold, and there were times when I would attempt to use it with a Shure SM7b.

That mic does need a lot of clean gain, more than you would expect. The ART did OK up through about half of its gain range, but the upper half of its gain range was really noisy. The lower half of the gain range is all you need for most condensers, but for a dynamic like the SM7b, I needed the upper half, too. But, that was the noisy half. So, the combination did not work for me.

If you are going to use these two pieces of equipment together, I do think it is reasonable to try it first and see what happens, but don't be shocked if you wind up feeling like you need to add another source of gain, like a Triton Fethead or a Cloudlifter.

[Silent Sound]

Are you guys gain staging your MPA's correctly? There seems to be a general consensus that this preamp is noisy, but I'm not experiencing that. I mean, it does get noisy at the very top, this is true, but even for the SM7b or my ribbons, I'm not usually maxing out the gain. Remember also, you don't want to be blasting your converters with a signal just shy of 0dB's. Keep it in the green to where it's just kissing the yellow. For vocals, I've never had a problem. Now, I have had a problem with using the MPA Gold and an Apex 205 ribbon on a finger picked acoustic guitar, but that's to be expected. That's a quiet source with a quiet mic and you're gonna use every bit of your 70dB's there. The results were unusable, so I had to switch mics. For what it's worth, when I get anywhere near the top end of these preamps, I'll max out the output (digital or analog) before I hit the half way point on the input. I also always have the +20dB engaged (unless using the DI) and have the plate voltage on high.

I don't know. Maybe my power is just really clean, or my units are particularly good, or my mics are unusually strong. Maybe the tubes are more important than I thought, especially when you get into the top of the gain range. I do have nice glass in them. But whatever the case, I get more usable gain out of these than I do out of my BLA Auteur, FMR RNP, my vintage Midas strips from an old mixing board, or any interface preamp I've ever used. They're not my favorite preamps, but they've always served me as a good workhorse preamp. That's why I own two.

[doncaparker]

I don't want to get into ART bashing, but I consider their products to be best described as follows: Great designs, cheap parts, built with cheap labor. If you get a good one, they are a wonderful value. But, cheap parts and cheap labor can sometimes lead to quality control problems.

Before anybody gets their pants in a bunch, I'm not saying that all ART products are crap. I'm saying that it should surprise no one that there will be some good units and some bad units, given how inexpensive these things are.

So, I see no inconsistency with Silent Sound having a great experience with ART and other folks (including me) having some issues here and there. I would expect that sort of thing to be true.

[Silent Sound]

Originally Posted by doncaparker

I don't want to get into ART bashing, but I consider their products to be best described as follows: Great designs, cheap parts, built with cheap labor. If you get a good one, they are a wonderful value. But, cheap parts and cheap labor can sometimes lead to quality control problems.

Before anybody gets their pants in a bunch, I'm not saying that all ART products are crap. I'm saying that it should surprise no one that there will be some good units and some bad units, given how inexpensive these things are.

So, I see no inconsistency with Silent Sound having a great experience with ART and other folks (including me) having some issues here and there. I would expect that sort of thing to be true.

Quite true. I've opened up these preamps before and had a look around the circuits. There are some well built areas (power supply with a toroidal transformer) and some junk parts (ribbon cables with cheap connectors). I once had a channel in one of my MPA's suddenly quit on me. To help diagnose the problem, I swapped out two of upper level boards to the channel on the other side. I wanted to see if the problem would follow the board or not to help narrow down where the problem was coming from. Funny thing was, the problem went away and hasn't come back.

[Moninosis]

Thanks for all the input guys I appreciate it.

Now another quetion: Do you think I should forgo the preamp (digital version) and just use the converters and preamp in the digi002 with a cloudlifter? I'm assuming the ARTs converters are superior. Am I wrong?

[Moninosis]

Originally Posted by KrisHayes

Gonna be noisy. Those ART units are notoriously trashy sounding, which can be cool! But for a mic that requires so much gain, don't see it being a great combo, unless you're looking for a noisy/low-fi kinda thing. In which case, just use a 58! Haha

No, haha I'm not going for jesus radio sound, definitely not feeling a 58. If anyone has any suggestions for a cheap kick mic alternative for broadcast vocals for the co-host I'm all ears, something that doesn't have a shitty proximity effect like most cheaper dynamics. I want an re20 for a different flavor that we can play around with, I like the lack of proximity effect and the clean lows and the mids are cool, like a smoother 421. I just can't fit everything I want in the budget.

I've never used an SM7 but it seems to have a similar proximity effect as an EV 767 I used to have, loved the mic I think it's 100-150 but I think it's probably too bright and a tad sizzly for broadcast. Any suggestions?