Need Suggestions for Recording my band's LP

[zzzxtreme]

i love Audix D2 on rack doms
my D4 didn't arrive from ebay, but sennheiser E602 kills on floor toms

DI I use Palmer Pan02 reamp using Palmer Daccapo. Superior to twice-the-cost radials

[mattjew24]

More important than the gear - just play to a click and play as tight as you can...and have good song arrangement. I look forward to hearing it!

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by zzzxtreme

i love Audix D2 on rack doms
my D4 didn't arrive from ebay, but sennheiser E602 kills on floor toms

DI I use Palmer Pan02 reamp using Palmer Daccapo. Superior to twice-the-cost radials

thanks for the DI and mic suggestions! i'll take a look at that DI especially . Anything that's better for cheaper is right in my ballpark. i've always been curious about the e602. i'll see if i can find a deal on one. i know they aren't too expensive to begin with. thanks again!

i tried doing a search for that DI, but I only found foreign sites and sites I was unfamiliar with. Could you recommend a trustworthy site? I'm a bit paranoid as I recently got ripped off.

Originally Posted by mattjew24

More important than the gear - just play to a click and play as tight as you can...and have good song arrangement. I look forward to hearing it!

thanks! we probably going to start practicing with the clicks next month when i finish with them. It's a real pain making those for us haha. lots of changes. Gotten through more than half though.

anybody have any recommendations for close micing cymbals? particularly china?

[zzzxtreme]

Palmer MI - Musical Instruments

great prices at thomann

[RoadToNever]

I heard some impressive clips of CAD TSM411 on rack tom, if those are what you got in the mic pack you might not need to worry about rack toms I think.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by zzzxtreme

Palmer MI - Musical Instruments

great prices at thomann

thanks

Originally Posted by RoadToNever

I heard some impressive clips of CAD TSM411 on rack tom, if those are what you got in the mic pack you might not need to worry about rack toms I think.

unfortunately not. its these guys

CAD Pro-4 Drum Microphone Pack | Musician's Friend

i think ive used them once when i first got them- needed something cheap and fast at the time. not a fan of mounts either, they dont even fit on my drummers toms. i use the km212 occasionally still though if i cant get anything else for floor tom. if the tsm411's are really worth it though over the prodipes, ill check em out, though the things i've been hearing about the prodipes sound unreal.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Hire in an experienced engineer to handle that end of the work, and learn as much as you can from him while he is there. Unless the goal isn't to make a great recording for the band.

[indie folk guy]

I'm going to make some suggestions

Sell off the AT2035s, AKG Perception, Sennheiser e815s, CAD drum mic pack, and whatever mics you don't really use. I'd also sell the ADA8000 and the mbox 3. Reinvest that money into a pair of decent preamps, a focusrite octopre dynamic mkII, cables, stands, acoustic treatment (Idk where you plan to record and if it's even acoustically treated), a better mic for your singer, a good pair of mics to use for drum overheads and acoustic guitars, mics for your toms. This is gearslutz not hoarders so get rid of the unused/unwanted crap and get stuff that will work for you not against you.

Adopt the philosophy of quality over quantity. Having a bunch of mediocre mics to record with will never sound as good as a recording made with fewer higher quality mics regardless of musical style/context.

Invest in a good pair of microphones to use as drum overheads and forget all about spot miking every cymbal on your kit (that is money wasted imho). Better suggestions if you are open to them for budget overheads CAD M179, AT4033, KSM137, Oktava MK012, ATM450, or AT4041 any of these work great on overheads and acoustic guitars and are relatively inexpensive (and can be found easily used most of the time).

Buy a good pair of mic preamps such as GAP pre73 or Warm Audio WA12. Use those preamps for your drum overheads. You will also use those for your lead vocals and any other tracks you want to shine. The Focusrite preamps will excel in all around purposes. These two options are way better than the BLA you're considering and will be more colorful/versatile than the Saffire/Octopre preamps.

Now bear with me simplify how you are recording drums I am a semi professional drummer I get paid to gig and record with acts, I'm also a studio engineer I've run studios for years and am in the process of building a new one.

If you can't get 90% of your drum sound from a good pair of mics and a good pair of preamps miking up every piece of the kit isn't going to help you every mic you add means you'll have the potential for phase issues and means you'll be spending more time setting up and positioning things. Cutting down on drum mics may be able to save you money on buying additional mics/preamp channels as well. Which can also save you a headache. The other thing being pointed out aside from sound engineering talent is drumming talent, a single room mic should be all you really need for a good drum recording. But obviously modern music declares more punch/definition from individual drums especially the kick and snare. But if you can't get the overheads and kick to produce a great sound than the drummer doesn't sound good.

So spend your time tuning the kit, getting it sounding great before it hits tape/hard disk. No mics/preamps on any source will make up for a bad performer or a bad sounding room.

take my favorite drum miking method Glyn Johns, this is a tried and true technique and it works well for a lot of styles.

This technique really only needs 4 mics to work well a kick mic (I use beyer m88), a snare mic (beyer m201), and a pair of overheads (any number of things heil pr30, at4041, at4050, at4047mp, neumann tlm102, shure ksm141, cascade vinjet lundahl, etc), a fifth/sixth room mic(s) optional (if using ribbons for overheads I like a LDC, if using condensers I like a ribbon).

I'd mike your kick with your ND868, your snare with your e609 (a much better choice than either your 57 or 767), and then stick your new pair of mics on overhead duties.

Now I'd experiment with using 3 mics in different configurations if I were you just focus on getting the best sounds possible from a kick mic and two overheads.

Once you master that add in your snare (e609 works great) and toms (audix D2 on racks and D4 on floors). If you want to add a little ambience/dimension add a room mic. If you are looking to bring out maybe more stick definition or bell (a ride spot mic) or more hi hat chick/sticking (a hat spot mic) I highly doubt you need to worry about spot miking the ride, hats, or china though. And yes I play similar music in fact I play all styles semi professionally (classical-metal and quite literally everything in between I've played latin, hip hop, soul, motown, surf, country, blues, rockabilly, folk, you name it). I don't think I've double miked snares or toms in a long time and just see it creating more problems than great recordings especially if this is your first venture into this sort of thing. LESS IS MORE when it comes to recording drums.

When I don't use Glyn Johns I setup overheads in a Blumlein stereo pair, those are my preferred techniques after many years of playing/engineering. Don't be afraid to experiment though Recorderman, XY, Spaced, Mid-Side, etc can all yield great results.

Now onto your singer there are many things to consider here (I'd shop used and get the best mic you can with whatever money you can budget oftentimes I use a Neumann KMS105 for studio and live vocals because it just works great with my voice)
dynamics I suggest - Beyer M88 and Heil PR30
condensers I suggest - AT4047, TLM102, KSM32 (this gets tricky so I won't name more since I don't know your vocalist or your budget Blue makes some fantastic LDC mics aside from the blueberry the mouse, the dragonfly, bottle rocket, baby bottle, and bluebird all make great vocal mics for the right singer)

I think you should be fine with a radial DI box that's what I use (the pro di stereo) for bass/keyboard applications if you want to mike up the bass I'd use an Audix D4 (word of advice when you mike up a bass cab never use the same mike you used on your kick drum), if you dig the sansamp tone than go that route

Guitars are a personal thing these days I find myself blending a dynamic (usually a PR30 or M69) with a good ribbon (M160 or Vinjet Lundahl are my favorites). The e609 and SM57 are more than adequate though. I use a two amp setup and my cabs are both loaded with Weber Blue Dog/Silver Bell combos. Throwing up the more expensive mics isn't much to me when I factor in the thousands of dollars I have invested in my drums, cymbals, guitars, amps, and effects.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

Hire in an experienced engineer to handle that end of the work, and learn as much as you can from him while he is there. Unless the goal isn't to make a great recording for the band.

The goal is to make a great recording . i've been interning for that studio this past summer and have been going to school for it for the past couple years. I've also been going to that studio for past 6 years, i've gotten to know the place. I don't feel uncomfortable tracking, I just feel slightly uncomfortable with my equipment. I'm not one of those people that believe I need to spend huge amounts of money to get a decent recording but I am just trying to maximize what I have with whatever else I can get my hands on by december. Money is an issue. We would rather not be under the clock and get better performances with slightly worse sound, then be in a studio being charged by the hour and get mediocre takes. We would have preferred going to the studio for drums, but as I said, it will be shut down by the time we are ready to get in there. Also, if we screw something up, at least we have all the time in the world to fix it.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by indie folk guy

I'm going to make some suggestions

Sell off the AT2035s, AKG Perception, Sennheiser e815s, CAD drum mic pack, and whatever mics you don't really use. I'd also sell the ADA8000 and the mbox 3. Reinvest that money into a pair of decent preamps, a focusrite octopre dynamic mkII, cables, stands, acoustic treatment (Idk where you plan to record and if it's even acoustically treated), a better mic for your singer, a good pair of mics to use for drum overheads and acoustic guitars, mics for your toms. This is gearslutz not hoarders so get rid of the unused/unwanted crap and get stuff that will work for you not against you.

Adopt the philosophy of quality over quantity. Having a bunch of mediocre mics to record with will never sound as good as a recording made with fewer higher quality mics regardless of musical style/context.

Invest in a good pair of microphones to use as drum overheads and forget all about spot miking every cymbal on your kit (that is money wasted imho). Better suggestions if you are open to them for budget overheads CAD M179, AT4033, KSM137, Oktava MK012, ATM450, or AT4041 any of these work great on overheads and acoustic guitars and are relatively inexpensive (and can be found easily used most of the time).

Buy a good pair of mic preamps such as GAP pre73 or Warm Audio WA12. Use those preamps for your drum overheads. You will also use those for your lead vocals and any other tracks you want to shine. The Focusrite preamps will excel in all around purposes. These two options are way better than the BLA you're considering and will be more colorful/versatile than the Saffire/Octopre preamps.

Now bear with me simplify how you are recording drums I am a semi professional drummer I get paid to gig and record with acts, I'm also a studio engineer I've run studios for years and am in the process of building a new one.

If you can't get 90% of your drum sound from a good pair of mics and a good pair of preamps miking up every piece of the kit isn't going to help you every mic you add means you'll have the potential for phase issues and means you'll be spending more time setting up and positioning things. Cutting down on drum mics may be able to save you money on buying additional mics/preamp channels as well. Which can also save you a headache. The other thing being pointed out aside from sound engineering talent is drumming talent, a single room mic should be all you really need for a good drum recording. But obviously modern music declares more punch/definition from individual drums especially the kick and snare. But if you can't get the overheads and kick to produce a great sound than the drummer doesn't sound good.

So spend your time tuning the kit, getting it sounding great before it hits tape/hard disk. No mics/preamps on any source will make up for a bad performer or a bad sounding room.

take my favorite drum miking method Glyn Johns, this is a tried and true technique and it works well for a lot of styles.

This technique really only needs 4 mics to work well a kick mic (I use beyer m88), a snare mic (beyer m201), and a pair of overheads (any number of things heil pr30, at4041, at4050, at4047mp, neumann tlm102, shure ksm141, cascade vinjet lundahl, etc), a fifth/sixth room mic(s) optional (if using ribbons for overheads I like a LDC, if using condensers I like a ribbon).

I'd mike your kick with your ND868, your snare with your e609 (a much better choice than either your 57 or 767), and then stick your new pair of mics on overhead duties.

Now I'd experiment with using 3 mics in different configurations if I were you just focus on getting the best sounds possible from a kick mic and two overheads.

Once you master that add in your snare (e609 works great) and toms (audix D2 on racks and D4 on floors). If you want to add a little ambience/dimension add a room mic. If you are looking to bring out maybe more stick definition or bell (a ride spot mic) or more hi hat chick/sticking (a hat spot mic) I highly doubt you need to worry about spot miking the ride, hats, or china though. And yes I play similar music in fact I play all styles semi professionally (classical-metal and quite literally everything in between I've played latin, hip hop, soul, motown, surf, country, blues, rockabilly, folk, you name it). I don't think I've double miked snares or toms in a long time and just see it creating more problems than great recordings especially if this is your first venture into this sort of thing. LESS IS MORE when it comes to recording drums.

When I don't use Glyn Johns I setup overheads in a Blumlein stereo pair, those are my preferred techniques after many years of playing/engineering. Don't be afraid to experiment though Recorderman, XY, Spaced, Mid-Side, etc can all yield great results.

Now onto your singer there are many things to consider here (I'd shop used and get the best mic you can with whatever money you can budget oftentimes I use a Neumann KMS105 for studio and live vocals because it just works great with my voice)
dynamics I suggest - Beyer M88 and Heil PR30
condensers I suggest - AT4047, TLM102, KSM32 (this gets tricky so I won't name more since I don't know your vocalist or your budget Blue makes some fantastic LDC mics aside from the blueberry the mouse, the dragonfly, bottle rocket, baby bottle, and bluebird all make great vocal mics for the right singer)

I think you should be fine with a radial DI box that's what I use (the pro di stereo) for bass/keyboard applications if you want to mike up the bass I'd use an Audix D4 (word of advice when you mike up a bass cab never use the same mike you used on your kick drum), if you dig the sansamp tone than go that route

Guitars are a personal thing these days I find myself blending a dynamic (usually a PR30 or M69) with a good ribbon (M160 or Vinjet Lundahl are my favorites). The e609 and SM57 are more than adequate though. I use a two amp setup and my cabs are both loaded with Weber Blue Dog/Silver Bell combos. Throwing up the more expensive mics isn't much to me when I factor in the thousands of dollars I have invested in my drums, cymbals, guitars, amps, and effects.

woooaaaaa thanks for the reply. looks like i got some selling to do. (but i like my at2035's :( )The extra mics were mics that i started out with and never bothered getting rid of once i got new ones haha. i guess its time, though i don't even know if they are worth selling . i'll def try and get rid of the ada8000 though, as thats been one of the things that was kinda scaring me (heard horror stories of those things overheating and dying).

i still think I might need to close mic those cymbals. If i have the channels, i might as well throw something on them just in case. tracks we've done before where they weren't closed miced (even by other engineers) never cut through enough. china was the biggest issue as we want it IN YOUR FACE which the OH's alone never seemed to deliver. We have a lot of time to try out everything, so I have no problem adjusting things, trying mics, until everything is just right.

Thanks for the preamp suggestions. I was looking at the gap pre as well, as i heard a bunch of people on here seem to like it. what makes you prefer it over the Black lion stuff?

there's a lot of mic suggestions on here, i'm going to need to investigate further on some of these. I know where i can get the atm450's for cheap but i'm not so sure i want those as I have heard they pick up a lot of the kit (i'd prefer more cymbal oriented stuff if i can find it). i might know a place where i can find the oktavas or rode nt5s for cheap.

well off to craigslist!

well, this is a lot to think about! Thanks for the tips and suggestions!

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by thisismyusername

The goal is to make a great recording . i've been interning for that studio this past summer and have been going to school for it for the past couple years. I've also been going to that studio for past 6 years, i've gotten to know the place. I don't feel uncomfortable tracking, I just feel slightly uncomfortable with my equipment. I'm not one of those people that believe I need to spend huge amounts of money to get a decent recording but I am just trying to maximize what I have with whatever else I can get my hands on by december. Money is an issue. We would rather not be under the clock and get better performances with slightly worse sound, then be in a studio being charged by the hour and get mediocre takes. We would have preferred going to the studio for drums, but as I said, it will be shut down by the time we are ready to get in there. Also, if we screw something up, at least we have all the time in the world to fix it.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by thisismyusername

woooaaaaa thanks for the reply. looks like i got some selling to do. (but i like my at2035's :( )The extra mics were mics that i started out with and never bothered getting rid of once i got new ones haha. i guess its time, though i don't even know if they are worth selling . i'll def try and get rid of the ada8000 though, as thats been one of the things that was kinda scaring me (heard horror stories of those things overheating and dying).

i still think I might need to close mic those cymbals. If i have the channels, i might as well throw something on them just in case. tracks we've done before where they weren't closed miced (even by other engineers) never cut through enough. china was the biggest issue as we want it IN YOUR FACE which the OH's alone never seemed to deliver. We have a lot of time to try out everything, so I have no problem adjusting things, trying mics, until everything is just right.

Thanks for the preamp suggestions. I was looking at the gap pre as well, as i heard a bunch of people on here seem to like it. what makes you prefer it over the Black lion stuff?

there's a lot of mic suggestions on here, i'm going to need to investigate further on some of these. I know where i can get the atm450's for cheap but i'm not so sure i want those as I have heard they pick up a lot of the kit (i'd prefer more cymbal oriented stuff if i can find it). i might know a place where i can find the oktavas or rode nt5s for cheap.

well off to craigslist!

well, this is a lot to think about! Thanks for the tips and suggestions!

Depending on how long you have the house for, I'd really experiment with placement (as in, find the sweet spot in the room) before you buy/sell mics: the cymbals may never have cut through because:

a) the overheads were not positioned correctly
b) the room(s) were/are really dead.
c) possibly a different stick head/finish (but this likely doubtful; still worth a shot)

You need to walk around with the snare in your hand in the house and find a place where it sounds good; same with kick. Put the drums there. Forget about stage-like setups here, you're going for good sounding locations.

Totally agree on buying (better yet, building) acoustic treatment, especially gobos: see you if you can find office panels (some of them have OC 703 in them or some brand of rockwool) to use; they're dirt cheap at liquidators and can tame some flutter/highs. Also, pick up some acoustic packing blankets. Can't remember the brand, but there's a packing blanket company in the US that's been mentioned on GS a few times that actually markets their blankets as "acoustic blankets" because they have grommets for hanging and they are really popular around here due to the material and weight.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by gravyface

Depending on how long you have the house for, I'd really experiment with placement (as in, find the sweet spot in the room) before you buy/sell mics: the cymbals may never have cut through because:

a) the overheads were not positioned correctly
b) the room(s) were/are really dead.
c) possibly a different stick head/finish (but this likely doubtful; still worth a shot)

You need to walk around with the snare in your hand in the house and find a place where it sounds good; same with kick. Put the drums there. Forget about stage-like setups here, you're going for good sounding locations.

Totally agree on buying (better yet, building) acoustic treatment, especially gobos: see you if you can find office panels (some of them have OC 703 in them or some brand of rockwool) to use; they're dirt cheap at liquidators and can tame some flutter/highs. Also, pick up some acoustic packing blankets. Can't remember the brand, but there's a packing blanket company in the US that's been mentioned on GS a few times that actually markets their blankets as "acoustic blankets" because they have grommets for hanging and they are really popular around here due to the material and weight.

we'll have the place for a week- it wont take that long to get the takes once we are ready, so we'll have awhile to mess around with placement. thanks for the suggestions though! We've started buying some foam and stuff, though I've never heard of office panels being used for gobos. That's really interesting! I'll take a search around the forum for those packing blankets as well. This is all very awesome stuff thanks!

[indie folk guy]

I do a bit of shopping with another GS named Warren. His website is
zenproaudio.com
it's a great resource he actually has a section comparing mic preamps I'd take a listen/look at that it can give you a good overall frame of reference. If you shoot him an email he will probably be happy to help you pick the right gear for your needs. Plus whenever you order from him he sends some mighty tasty coffee.

to me the BLA just doesn't seem to have the same quality as the WA12 or the Pre73 I'd take a listen (granted this is one scenario/test) and it can be very tough to explain subtle differences. For the pre73 he does comparisons of the stock unit, TT mod unit, and full mod unit vs a Chameleon Lab 7602 mkII and an original Neve 1073.

Obviously I'd encourage you to get your hands on the preamps and try them, but I'm also aware that sometimes that's not a feasible possibility. Something you may consider is ordering one of each from AMS or Zzounds, buy them on the monthly payment plan (3 or 4 month respectively). This would give you a chance to do some real world comparisons and within like a month you can decide which one you like better and exchange to end up with the pair of the one you like best.

To give you an idea of the sound of the two the WA12 is based on a vintage API 312 and the Pre73 is based on a vintage Neve 1073. I wouldn't say that either are dead on clones but they share some similarities. I'd describe both as having vintagey mid range and an overall warm punchy character. I'd say where the two differ is how they handle transients to me the pre73 is a little slower and brighter on top and the wa12 is a little faster and has a softer treble response. If my buzz words are accurate of course again YMMV. I'd use his ISA one clips as a reference (since that's probably most similar to your Saffire preamp).

I know that Bryce has put a tremendous amount of thought and care into the WA12 and regardless of price point its a preamp you won't really need to mod/upgrade. Whereas with the Pre73 (while a fantastic value) has many things that can be modded/upgraded.

But I've used the Focusrite preamps/interfaces a lot over the years and to my ear the difference is more pronounced between the WA12/Pre73 and my interfaces than the difference between the BLA and the Focusrite.

For me I'd rather get something where I hear the difference a little more if I'm going to be spending a substantial amount of money. Otherwise I'd say just stick to the interface and the octopre. Some people try to hate on the low end and even high end focusrite stuff but it really is great bang for the buck if you want a nice clean, transparent preamp that works great in a variety of musical contexts. I've happily used their interfaces for about 10 years.

As to your mics the AT2035 really isn't too shabby but as for your other mics and gear I'd really take a look at what you have decide what is useful and what isn't what is the purpose of having tons of gear around that really serves no purpose when you have acoustic treatment, preamps, and other mics/gear that you have a need/use for? Use the junk/clutter to help fund your more needed gear.

I don't see the point in having an Mbox 3 if you are going to be using the Focusrite for probably 95% or more of your work. I don't see the point in having a bunch of cheap/mediocre mics that you don't use at all (ie the sennheisers, the perception, the cad drum pack, etc).

IMHO if you want to be budget check out Karma Audio they have some nice little bullet style condensers that could make great cymbal spot mics for cheap. SM57's also to my ear can make great cymbal spot mics because they offer a smooth character so you get enhanced stick definition and more of the cymbal being miked without it becoming overly bright when combined with a condenser overhead.

I still think that picking the right overhead mics and positioning them properly should eliminate the issue of having cymbals cut and if the drummer is playing appropriately the cymbals should sound right in the room (if it sounds right in the room and the overheads are positioned right) well yeah there shouldn't be anything to worry about. I think it's important to get the right sound in the room naturally and rely more on the performance than the gear. Another thing that could've been adding to your issues could've been how you EQ'd/comp'd those overheads.

I'd definitely say DIY treatment is a must. Diffusers, traps, gobos, broadband absorbers, the acoustic packing blankets are also a great suggestion.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by indie folk guy

I do a bit of shopping with another GS named Warren. His website is
zenproaudio.com
it's a great resource he actually has a section comparing mic preamps I'd take a listen/look at that it can give you a good overall frame of reference. If you shoot him an email he will probably be happy to help you pick the right gear for your needs. Plus whenever you order from him he sends some mighty tasty coffee.

to me the BLA just doesn't seem to have the same quality as the WA12 or the Pre73 I'd take a listen (granted this is one scenario/test) and it can be very tough to explain subtle differences. For the pre73 he does comparisons of the stock unit, TT mod unit, and full mod unit vs a Chameleon Lab 7602 mkII and an original Neve 1073.

Obviously I'd encourage you to get your hands on the preamps and try them, but I'm also aware that sometimes that's not a feasible possibility. Something you may consider is ordering one of each from AMS or Zzounds, buy them on the monthly payment plan (3 or 4 month respectively). This would give you a chance to do some real world comparisons and within like a month you can decide which one you like better and exchange to end up with the pair of the one you like best.

To give you an idea of the sound of the two the WA12 is based on a vintage API 312 and the Pre73 is based on a vintage Neve 1073. I wouldn't say that either are dead on clones but they share some similarities. I'd describe both as having vintagey mid range and an overall warm punchy character. I'd say where the two differ is how they handle transients to me the pre73 is a little slower and brighter on top and the wa12 is a little faster and has a softer treble response. If my buzz words are accurate of course again YMMV. I'd use his ISA one clips as a reference (since that's probably most similar to your Saffire preamp).

I know that Bryce has put a tremendous amount of thought and care into the WA12 and regardless of price point its a preamp you won't really need to mod/upgrade. Whereas with the Pre73 (while a fantastic value) has many things that can be modded/upgraded.

But I've used the Focusrite preamps/interfaces a lot over the years and to my ear the difference is more pronounced between the WA12/Pre73 and my interfaces than the difference between the BLA and the Focusrite.

For me I'd rather get something where I hear the difference a little more if I'm going to be spending a substantial amount of money. Otherwise I'd say just stick to the interface and the octopre. Some people try to hate on the low end and even high end focusrite stuff but it really is great bang for the buck if you want a nice clean, transparent preamp that works great in a variety of musical contexts. I've happily used their interfaces for about 10 years.

As to your mics the AT2035 really isn't too shabby but as for your other mics and gear I'd really take a look at what you have decide what is useful and what isn't what is the purpose of having tons of gear around that really serves no purpose when you have acoustic treatment, preamps, and other mics/gear that you have a need/use for? Use the junk/clutter to help fund your more needed gear.

I don't see the point in having an Mbox 3 if you are going to be using the Focusrite for probably 95% or more of your work. I don't see the point in having a bunch of cheap/mediocre mics that you don't use at all (ie the sennheisers, the perception, the cad drum pack, etc).

IMHO if you want to be budget check out Karma Audio they have some nice little bullet style condensers that could make great cymbal spot mics for cheap. SM57's also to my ear can make great cymbal spot mics because they offer a smooth character so you get enhanced stick definition and more of the cymbal being miked without it becoming overly bright when combined with a condenser overhead.

I still think that picking the right overhead mics and positioning them properly should eliminate the issue of having cymbals cut and if the drummer is playing appropriately the cymbals should sound right in the room (if it sounds right in the room and the overheads are positioned right) well yeah there shouldn't be anything to worry about. I think it's important to get the right sound in the room naturally and rely more on the performance than the gear. Another thing that could've been adding to your issues could've been how you EQ'd/comp'd those overheads.

I'd definitely say DIY treatment is a must. Diffusers, traps, gobos, broadband absorbers, the acoustic packing blankets are also a great suggestion.

awesome! what your saying makes a lot of sense to me! the warm audio pre sounds like it might be more for us because of the faster transient response so i'll look around for that. I'll check out those shootouts as well. I didn't know that site had those.

i actually have my mbox because i need to work with protools for school, so i can't really get rid of it yet haha. But you are right, I do mostly everything with my saffire. I did some research on the octopre and i've seen different opinions on it. Whats the benefit of the octopre over getting another saffire and daisy chaining them?

i'll see what i can get for those mics i don't need anymore and the ada8000

also thanks for the karma audio suggestion! those are so cheap those couldn't hurt to try out at least! I hope they can take the spl

thanks again! you've been very informative!

[indie folk guy]

well I think one advantage is if you choose the Octopre Dynamic you have 8 decent quality compressors built into it, this is very handy if you are using a strip for miking drums.

I guess this just boils down to preference. To me the Octopre is a piece you can grow with whereas at some point you may upgrade to a different interface or you may just go to standalone pres running to a set of converters.

Say two years from now you drop $2k on an RME or the like what are you going to do with the Saffires then? I don't remember if the 40 can be used as a standalone preamp, so perhaps this is a non issue. But it is definitely something to consider.

Karmas should be fine worse case scenario use a pad.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by indie folk guy

well I think one advantage is if you choose the Octopre Dynamic you have 8 decent quality compressors built into it, this is very handy if you are using a strip for miking drums.

I guess this just boils down to preference. To me the Octopre is a piece you can grow with whereas at some point you may upgrade to a different interface or you may just go to standalone pres running to a set of converters.

Say two years from now you drop $2k on an RME or the like what are you going to do with the Saffires then? I don't remember if the 40 can be used as a standalone preamp, so perhaps this is a non issue. But it is definitely something to consider.

Karmas should be fine worse case scenario use a pad.

makes sense to me! thanks again!

[indie folk guy]

Originally Posted by thisismyusername

makes sense to me! thanks again!

now something you could consider is getting a liquid saffire interface and using your 40 into that.

the 2 liquid channels may spare you the expense of the pair of GAP/Warm Audio preamps. Plus you get two ADAT ins so you could add up to 16 channels through ADAT a great expandability feature for someone recording music like yours were you could easily setup a dozen or more mics around a drumkit.

I hear BLA makes a nice mod for the liquid saffire as well. I'd get myself a liquid saffire but my new laptops are only USB so that's why I went scarlett. I do location work so I have to have an interface that's compatible with both desktops and laptops. I'm looking at the RME Fireface UC as an upgrade for my studio, I do a low end operation I definitely don't do it for the profit lol.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by thisismyusername

awesome! what your saying makes a lot of sense to me! the warm audio pre sounds like it might be more for us because of the faster transient response so i'll look around for that. I'll check out those shootouts as well. I didn't know that site had those.

i actually have my mbox because i need to work with protools for school, so i can't really get rid of it yet haha. But you are right, I do mostly everything with my saffire. I did some research on the octopre and i've seen different opinions on it. Whats the benefit of the octopre over getting another saffire and daisy chaining them?

i'll see what i can get for those mics i don't need anymore and the ada8000

also thanks for the karma audio suggestion! those are so cheap those couldn't hurt to try out at least! I hope they can take the spl

thanks again! you've been very informative!

I tried the Karmic audio silver bullets for overheads (Recorder man) and really didn't like them at all. Completely thin and lifeless. Now having said that, I was also trying to get an overall image of the kit, but as others have said, you can get into bad phase issues when you add too many mics so it's best to be happy with your overheads first (Glyn Johns, Recorderman, etc.).

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by indie folk guy

now something you could consider is getting a liquid saffire interface and using your 40 into that.

the 2 liquid channels may spare you the expense of the pair of GAP/Warm Audio preamps. Plus you get two ADAT ins so you could add up to 16 channels through ADAT a great expandability feature for someone recording music like yours were you could easily setup a dozen or more mics around a drumkit.

I hear BLA makes a nice mod for the liquid saffire as well. I'd get myself a liquid saffire but my new laptops are only USB so that's why I went scarlett. I do location work so I have to have an interface that's compatible with both desktops and laptops. I'm looking at the RME Fireface UC as an upgrade for my studio, I do a low end operation I definitely don't do it for the profit lol.

that's actually a fantastic idea. that would probably save me some cash too. are the liquid pres really that good?

Originally Posted by gravyface

I tried the Karmic audio silver bullets for overheads (Recorder man) and really didn't like them at all. Completely thin and lifeless. Now having said that, I was also trying to get an overall image of the kit, but as others have said, you can get into bad phase issues when you add too many mics so it's best to be happy with your overheads first (Glyn Johns, Recorderman, etc.).

i was planning on doing some extreme phase checking and editing if i needed to. might as well throw up the mics just in case is what i'm thinking. thanks for the heads up though on the karma mics- might still get some though to try out- not much to lose! :D could be useful on something- rooms or acoustics at least.

thanks guys!! this has been extremely helpful stuff!

[RoadToNever]

Recorderman is really nothing more than another way of keeping snare and kick centered and in phase in a spaced pair. Another way is the infamous Glyn Johns methos and yet another is decribed here and here.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by RoadToNever

Recorderman is really nothing more than another way of keeping snare and kick centered and in phase in a spaced pair. Another way is the infamous Glyn Johns methos and yet another is decribed here and here.

Yup. However, I find it easier to work with in less than ideal rooms than Glyn Johns. I also find getting it right takes less auditioning: with a spare patch cord or piece of string, you can easily measure out the distances from OHs to snare, and OHs to kick quite easily, which gets you more than half the way.

[thisismyusername]

i was actually planning on doing a spaced pair placed away from the hi hat and ride, keeping them equidistant from the snare.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by thisismyusername

i was actually planning on doing a spaced pair placed away from the hi hat and ride, keeping them equidistant from the snare.

That's pretty standard regardless. Have to think about the line that dissects the kit into two sides. It's typically not smack in the middle of the bass drum as you would think.

[Silent Sound]

Originally Posted by gravyface

Depending on how long you have the house for, I'd really experiment with placement (as in, find the sweet spot in the room) before you buy/sell mics: the cymbals may never have cut through because:

a) the overheads were not positioned correctly
b) the room(s) were/are really dead.
c) possibly a different stick head/finish (but this likely doubtful; still worth a shot)

You need to walk around with the snare in your hand in the house and find a place where it sounds good; same with kick. Put the drums there. Forget about stage-like setups here, you're going for good sounding locations.

Totally agree on buying (better yet, building) acoustic treatment, especially gobos: see you if you can find office panels (some of them have OC 703 in them or some brand of rockwool) to use; they're dirt cheap at liquidators and can tame some flutter/highs. Also, pick up some acoustic packing blankets. Can't remember the brand, but there's a packing blanket company in the US that's been mentioned on GS a few times that actually markets their blankets as "acoustic blankets" because they have grommets for hanging and they are really popular around here due to the material and weight.

This is the best advice here so far. Get it right in the room, and the quality of the equipment you use will be far less important. And since this will be a totally new room to you, I'd recommend spending a LOT of time learning the room. I especially suggest you do the walk around with the kick AND snare thing. That small step will make a huge difference on the final product!

I'm going to suggest you look at the BLA Auteur. As you know, it's a two channel preamp with a great clear and crisp sound that doesn't come off as boring or sterile. It's my go-to preamp (out of about ten) for vocals, acoustic instruments, and drum OH's. It absolutely kills on cymbals! However, if your mics or cymbals have a harsh sound to them, this preamp won't do much to hide that. It's very revealing, which is usually a good thing, but can work against you.

It sounds like you've got a pretty good plan. I did something very similar to this with my band a few months ago. It was really fun and our demo came out pretty good. Most people who hear it say it sounds like a major label release, but to me it's not quite there. To me, it just lacked the sheen of these big albums. But you could probably have bought a U47 for the price of our whole setup. Anyway, our biggest problem turned out not to be issues with equipment or experience, but rather issues with getting sloshed before the work part of the day was up. So my advice to you is to get the band to agree ahead of time on a work schedule and keep everyone sober during that time. Don't get too strict and suck all the fun out of it, but you know. It's not fun trying to track half the drums on the final day because everyone got too wasted everyday earlier in the week. Then, after 5 or whatever, enjoy that hot tub! We sure did! Just remember, it's a business venture, and a vacation. Do both, and do both well!

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by Silent Sound

This is the best advice here so far. Get it right in the room, and the quality of the equipment you use will be far less important. And since this will be a totally new room to you, I'd recommend spending a LOT of time learning the room. I especially suggest you do the walk around with the kick AND snare thing. That small step will make a huge difference on the final product!

I'm going to suggest you look at the BLA Auteur. As you know, it's a two channel preamp with a great clear and crisp sound that doesn't come off as boring or sterile. It's my go-to preamp (out of about ten) for vocals, acoustic instruments, and drum OH's. It absolutely kills on cymbals! However, if your mics or cymbals have a harsh sound to them, this preamp won't do much to hide that. It's very revealing, which is usually a good thing, but can work against you.

It sounds like you've got a pretty good plan. I did something very similar to this with my band a few months ago. It was really fun and our demo came out pretty good. Most people who hear it say it sounds like a major label release, but to me it's not quite there. To me, it just lacked the sheen of these big albums. But you could probably have bought a U47 for the price of our whole setup. Anyway, our biggest problem turned out not to be issues with equipment or experience, but rather issues with getting sloshed before the work part of the day was up. So my advice to you is to get the band to agree ahead of time on a work schedule and keep everyone sober during that time. Don't get too strict and suck all the fun out of it, but you know. It's not fun trying to track half the drums on the final day because everyone got too wasted everyday earlier in the week. Then, after 5 or whatever, enjoy that hot tub! We sure did! Just remember, it's a business venture, and a vacation. Do both, and do both well!

Love this post! Especially the first two sentences- makes me feel more confident! This is fantastic advice. We were actually just talking about scheduling out our time there and limiting our intake of intoxicating substances haha. I'll definitively be doing that walk around as well. Now for the BLA- i have conflicting opinions on this now haha. I was actually now leaning on getting the LS56 because of the liquid pres but i was waiting for some opinions on those as it sounds like an odd concept (but if they're great, i would totally go for it). Though if the BLA or GAP 73 is preferred, I'd rather go that route and get the octopre. Lots of choices to consider. Also, I realized I may want to pick up some triggers if i go the LS56 route and plug em into the ada8000- even if only for opening gates. Any one have any favorites? Don't own any triggers yet.

thanks again!

Originally Posted by gravyface

That's pretty standard regardless. Have to think about the line that dissects the kit into two sides. It's typically not smack in the middle of the bass drum as you would think.

I'll be sure to remember that! We'll take our time thanks again guys!

[indie folk guy]

I've used a Liquid Channel (my understanding is that the Liquid Saffire is just the pres and kinda stripped down) and it was pretty cool, don't expect it to be 100% authentic but for a low end operation I think it definitely has some cool things to offer. Plus it can give you an idea of what a lot of famous preamp flavors are so you can decide for yourself hey I really like the API sound or whatever the case may be. Think of it like a Line 6 (or whatever) amp modeler only for mic preamps. It's not really terrible but it's not 100% authentic to the real thing it can't be. They will be noticeably better than the stock saffire pres. This kinda kills two birds with one stone, so thats why I suggested it, I'm trying to think outside the box.

I'd say it's probably in league with a lot of the popular low end single channel mic preamps I don't think it's necessarily better or worse just different.

I really wasn't that wow'd by the BLA Auteur especially comparing it to the Pre73 and WA12, honestly I think that the WA12 is probably the best quality single channel mic pre below $500, might not be the most versatile but it's the sound I prefer. The WA12 in particular uses very well chosen high end components you simply aren't getting that quality with the Auteur. Again this is where letting your ears be the judge comes in handy. There are plenty of reviews comparing these and other preamps, there are also great resources like that zenproaudio clipalator I told you about. And as I said a lot of online retailers have 30-45 day return policies and payment plans so use those periods to evaluate gear for yourself. Even if you get charged a slight restocking fee it's a small price to pay knowing you are getting exactly the tone you are after at least imho and ime.

Again without knowing your exact budget it's tough to say I'd say go with whatever method is cheapest and gets you a useable end result (getting gear that you can easily work with and like is also a plus).

As for triggering your drums that can become an expensive and time consuming task. With all the other things going against you
-new recording environment
-only a week to do the tracking
etc.
I think it's probably best that you focus on the basics and execute them better. Than trying to do a million things and maybe just get a mediocre at best end result. I guess I'm old school I prefer my drums natural.

The other thing that we are forgetting to mention is the fact that we are still tracking a band, so there are going to be interpersonal issues, keeping people on schedule/track, just the usual working in group stuff to overcome. I just don't think it's always a great idea to plan to do this that and the other when you are in an unfamiliar environment you could easily spend a day tuning drums and learning the room and finding the mic placements, etc that you prefer. Just some food for thought.

I seriously think the best thing right now that you can do is experiment with some of these simpler things. If you guys are recording it yourself I think it's much easier settng up fewer mics than setting up tons of mics, tons of triggers, worrying if all your tom and cymbal mics are in phase, etc. At the end of the day the goal is to make a great recording. Most of the greatest recordings ever made weren't done so using a million mics, tracks, triggering, etc. In fact a lot of the greatest recordings ever were done with pretty primitive equipment looking back and with all the bells and whistles modern technology can afford it's still tough to match some of that magic. What made those recordings great was the musicians performing in them and the talent of the sound engineers making simplicity work in exceptional ways.

If you can practice some different mic placements/techniques to get a feel for your gear ahead of time I think that'd be helpful also. All I'm asking is that you try a minimalistic approach just to see how good you can get a drum recording with just 3 mics (kick and stereo pair). Those three mics (possibly a fourth snare mic) should be the foundation of your drum sound. Nailing those 3-4 things, getting the kit sounding great in the room, etc will do a lot more for the overall quality of your recordings, modern music focuses on ride/hats/crashes, kick drum, and snare drum. Because guess what if something goes wrong during tracking what mics do you rely on OVERHEADS, KICK, and SNARE.

And when positioning a spaced pair of overheads the snare drum is always the center of the kit, the toms should be considered left or right of that image. So take my kit that has three rack toms and two floor toms my largest floor tom is LEFT and my smallest rack tom is RIGHT. Pan your snare and kick close mics CENTER (and on my kit the 12" or largest rack tom). How aggressively you decide to pan your toms and overhead mics can be kind of personal preference I usually don't use extreme pan settings usually I pan about 50% right or left (at my most extreme). That way you still have space to pan guitars, bass, keys, horns, vocals (if you pan them), etc.

Obviously the recording environment will be crucial figure out where things sound best (both sources and mics). I'd suggest using fresh drumheads and really spend a good amount of time fine tuning the whole drumset. Really focus on the quality of playing and the sound of the kit in the room. This way you aren't performing surgery on your takes after the fact.

I like to think in terms of building blocks and foundations for my studio work and then slowly add to that foundation. which is why I really emphasize picking the right mics and preamps for your critical sources and GETTING THE ROOM RIGHT.

Maybe for your situation a pair of small diaphragm condensers (ATM450 work great and are cheap) would be better than your AT2035. The brighter nature may help you avoid spot miking your hats, china, and ride (eliminating three extra mics simply by choosing the right tools for the job). Again imho and ime about 95% of your drum tone in a recording regardless of musical style comes from your overheads. Close mics are often used to just fill out the sound. You wouldn't mute or cut your overhead tracks but you might cut out close mics.

Picking the right mic for your vocalist to flatter their voice and compliment there style (both vocal technique and how they work the mic).

Personally for your guitar recordings I'd try to mike up a real amp. I'd still encourage you to run a DI signal so that you can tweak and blend though. So use a DI box with a thru put run the thru signal to your amp and the DI out to your interface. I'm sorry but I just never really found most amp sims to be that authentic sounding. I guess I was just born with a snobby set of ears. I often find that when doing bass and guitar recordings it's best to blend the DI and amp mic signals though. It gives a more 3D sound.

So what I'd do if I were you is just create an inventory list of all the gear you currently have. Put it on here.

Then make a list of things you want, a list of things that you want to get rid of, the things you can't seperate with, etc. Set a budget for a dollar amount you want to spend on this "project" and don't include gear you may sell, you can consider that a bonus. You need to budget based on what you can afford to spend. While your list of wants may seem to be small purchases, they add up. Do you have the funds available to actually do everything you want to? You can't make a plan around a setup you won't actually be using right?

Then when you and everyone else know what you are working with and what your goals are you can build from the ground up and pick the right gear.

So before we really get detailed on a plan of attack let's get back to the basics and figure out what we have to work with. Then we can create a plan of attack utilizing that budget/gear.

[thisismyusername]

Originally Posted by indie folk guy

I've used a Liquid Channel (my understanding is that the Liquid Saffire is just the pres and kinda stripped down) and it was pretty cool, don't expect it to be 100% authentic but for a low end operation I think it definitely has some cool things to offer. Plus it can give you an idea of what a lot of famous preamp flavors are so you can decide for yourself hey I really like the API sound or whatever the case may be. Think of it like a Line 6 (or whatever) amp modeler only for mic preamps. It's not really terrible but it's not 100% authentic to the real thing it can't be. They will be noticeably better than the stock saffire pres. This kinda kills two birds with one stone, so thats why I suggested it, I'm trying to think outside the box.

I'd say it's probably in league with a lot of the popular low end single channel mic preamps I don't think it's necessarily better or worse just different.

I really wasn't that wow'd by the BLA Auteur especially comparing it to the Pre73 and WA12, honestly I think that the WA12 is probably the best quality single channel mic pre below $500, might not be the most versatile but it's the sound I prefer. The WA12 in particular uses very well chosen high end components you simply aren't getting that quality with the Auteur. Again this is where letting your ears be the judge comes in handy. There are plenty of reviews comparing these and other preamps, there are also great resources like that zenproaudio clipalator I told you about. And as I said a lot of online retailers have 30-45 day return policies and payment plans so use those periods to evaluate gear for yourself. Even if you get charged a slight restocking fee it's a small price to pay knowing you are getting exactly the tone you are after at least imho and ime.

Again without knowing your exact budget it's tough to say I'd say go with whatever method is cheapest and gets you a useable end result (getting gear that you can easily work with and like is also a plus).

As for triggering your drums that can become an expensive and time consuming task. With all the other things going against you
-new recording environment
-only a week to do the tracking
etc.
I think it's probably best that you focus on the basics and execute them better. Than trying to do a million things and maybe just get a mediocre at best end result. I guess I'm old school I prefer my drums natural.

The other thing that we are forgetting to mention is the fact that we are still tracking a band, so there are going to be interpersonal issues, keeping people on schedule/track, just the usual working in group stuff to overcome. I just don't think it's always a great idea to plan to do this that and the other when you are in an unfamiliar environment you could easily spend a day tuning drums and learning the room and finding the mic placements, etc that you prefer. Just some food for thought.

I seriously think the best thing right now that you can do is experiment with some of these simpler things. If you guys are recording it yourself I think it's much easier settng up fewer mics than setting up tons of mics, tons of triggers, worrying if all your tom and cymbal mics are in phase, etc. At the end of the day the goal is to make a great recording. Most of the greatest recordings ever made weren't done so using a million mics, tracks, triggering, etc. In fact a lot of the greatest recordings ever were done with pretty primitive equipment looking back and with all the bells and whistles modern technology can afford it's still tough to match some of that magic. What made those recordings great was the musicians performing in them and the talent of the sound engineers making simplicity work in exceptional ways.

If you can practice some different mic placements/techniques to get a feel for your gear ahead of time I think that'd be helpful also. All I'm asking is that you try a minimalistic approach just to see how good you can get a drum recording with just 3 mics (kick and stereo pair). Those three mics (possibly a fourth snare mic) should be the foundation of your drum sound. Nailing those 3-4 things, getting the kit sounding great in the room, etc will do a lot more for the overall quality of your recordings, modern music focuses on ride/hats/crashes, kick drum, and snare drum. Because guess what if something goes wrong during tracking what mics do you rely on OVERHEADS, KICK, and SNARE.

And when positioning a spaced pair of overheads the snare drum is always the center of the kit, the toms should be considered left or right of that image. So take my kit that has three rack toms and two floor toms my largest floor tom is LEFT and my smallest rack tom is RIGHT. Pan your snare and kick close mics CENTER (and on my kit the 12" or largest rack tom). How aggressively you decide to pan your toms and overhead mics can be kind of personal preference I usually don't use extreme pan settings usually I pan about 50% right or left (at my most extreme). That way you still have space to pan guitars, bass, keys, horns, vocals (if you pan them), etc.

Obviously the recording environment will be crucial figure out where things sound best (both sources and mics). I'd suggest using fresh drumheads and really spend a good amount of time fine tuning the whole drumset. Really focus on the quality of playing and the sound of the kit in the room. This way you aren't performing surgery on your takes after the fact.

I like to think in terms of building blocks and foundations for my studio work and then slowly add to that foundation. which is why I really emphasize picking the right mics and preamps for your critical sources and GETTING THE ROOM RIGHT.

Maybe for your situation a pair of small diaphragm condensers (ATM450 work great and are cheap) would be better than your AT2035. The brighter nature may help you avoid spot miking your hats, china, and ride (eliminating three extra mics simply by choosing the right tools for the job). Again imho and ime about 95% of your drum tone in a recording regardless of musical style comes from your overheads. Close mics are often used to just fill out the sound. You wouldn't mute or cut your overhead tracks but you might cut out close mics.

Picking the right mic for your vocalist to flatter their voice and compliment there style (both vocal technique and how they work the mic).

Personally for your guitar recordings I'd try to mike up a real amp. I'd still encourage you to run a DI signal so that you can tweak and blend though. So use a DI box with a thru put run the thru signal to your amp and the DI out to your interface. I'm sorry but I just never really found most amp sims to be that authentic sounding. I guess I was just born with a snobby set of ears. I often find that when doing bass and guitar recordings it's best to blend the DI and amp mic signals though. It gives a more 3D sound.

So what I'd do if I were you is just create an inventory list of all the gear you currently have. Put it on here.

Then make a list of things you want, a list of things that you want to get rid of, the things you can't seperate with, etc. Set a budget for a dollar amount you want to spend on this "project" and don't include gear you may sell, you can consider that a bonus. You need to budget based on what you can afford to spend. While your list of wants may seem to be small purchases, they add up. Do you have the funds available to actually do everything you want to? You can't make a plan around a setup you won't actually be using right?

Then when you and everyone else know what you are working with and what your goals are you can build from the ground up and pick the right gear.

So before we really get detailed on a plan of attack let's get back to the basics and figure out what we have to work with. Then we can create a plan of attack utilizing that budget/gear.

thanks again! I was leaning towards the liquid 56 so I'll probably end up going with that now. atm450's i've been looking at for awhile and have used before as overheads in school for a few sessions but never felt compelled to buy them. Though they aren't too expensive.

the gear i have is what i listed at the top
i'm looking at the liquid saffire now, prodipe tt1's, e602 (maybe, maybe not- the cad kbm412 is pretty neat on floor tom tracks ive done before), prodipe pro ribbon 8 monitors, some sort of DI- i like the palmer's mentioned but still looking for US dealer, atm450's or rode nt5's or the oktava's or my at2035's for overheads. the schools studio has the atm450's and nt5's so i might bring my at2035's there one day and do a shootout.

i'll probably skip out on the triggers, I don't really needthem, but figured they would make some things easier since we will probably be doing some sample augmentation. honestly the kick will probably be completely replaced for some parts to get the double bass parts even. i might still get a kick trigger.

our budget is something like $3000 but would prefer to spend less obviously.
so far with the things i've mentioned, we are still safely in the green i think.

thanks again!

[indie folk guy]

I will consolidate some things if this helps anyone else.

so the mics you have are the following?

EV ND868 (stick this on kick)
EV ND767 (these are handy to have around I like them on vocals and instruments)
Shure SM57 (stick this on guitar cab)
AT2035 pair (I'm not sure that I'd even keep these, that's up to you)
Audix F15 pair -gone-
AKG Perception 120 -gone-
Sennheiser e609 (snare drum, guitar cab)
cad cm217 (2) -gone-
sennheiser e815s (3) -gone-
cad kbm412 -gone-
cheap CAD drum mic kit -gone-

I'd cut the e815s ($60), the cad drum mic kit (idk which model this is but let's say $35), the cad kbm412 ($20), AKG Perception 120 ($50), Audix F15s ($60), and the CAD CM217 pair ($25). Dollar amounts in parenthesis would be what you'd likely acquire selling used. Sell the ADA8000 for $100. So that gives you an extra $350 to apply towards what you want/need (which might I add could get you something off your list).

So you have a maximum of $3350 to spend.

With the following needs to be fulfilled: TOM MICS, DRUM OVERHEADS (maybe, as your 2035 pair may work well in this regard to save you money), LIQUID SAFFIRE INTERFACE or OCTOPRE/2 CHANNEL OUTBOARD, STEREO DI BOX, SAMPLES FOR STRINGS/ORCHESTRAS, VOCAL MIC, MONITORS.

-$1000 for liquid saffire interface (this is likely the more cost effective option vs buying an 8 channel ADAT preamp and some type of "esoteric" option)

leaves you with $2350

-$120 for a stereo passive Radial DI box

leaves you with $2230

-$380ish for your Prodipe monitors

leaves you with $1850

first option
-$510 for 3 Audix D2 and 1 Audix D4 for tom mics (AMS sells the 3 D2's for $339, D4 is $169)
second option
-$500 for 4 CAD M179 tom mics

leaves you with about $1350

this leaves you still needing the samples, a possible vocal mic upgrade, and a possible drum overhead upgrade. Plus I'm not sure what stands/cables/acoustic treatments, etc. are still needed.

Personally I'd probably suggest another overhead option that can work well for other sources and imho will probably sound a lot nicer than the Oktavas or Rodes (I suggested the ATM450 because they usually work well and are cheap but if you aren't crazy about them I can give a better/different suggestion)

-$665 for a matched pair of Shure KSM137SL SDC mics (these are great, detailed, bright but have a great balance to them they work great for overheads, acoustic guitars, choirs, pianos, bands/orchestras, etc)

I'd probably suggest spending the remainder of your budget on a good LDC mic for your vocalist. Without knowing the voice it's hard to know what to recomend but I'd suggest looking used to get the most bang for your buck some of my favorite vocal mics in the condenser category are Neumann TLM102, Neumann KMS105, Audio-Technica AT4047, Kel Audio (they make many good ones depending on your vocalists range and desired tone), Shure KSM32, Mojave Audio MA201FET, Blue Baby Bottle, Blue Bluebird, Blue Dragonfly, Blue Mouse, Blue Blueberry, Oktavamod (he has a lot of great mods to low cost mics), etc. Again if possible I'd try before you buy or at least get an idea of the type of vocal mic that does flatter your vocalist. Preferring the 2035 to a Blueberry is comparing apples to oranges and you were kinda vague about that.

I'd probably sell off the AT2035 pair and use that and the remainder of your budget (depending on vocal mic choice) for your samples.

Again that's what I'd personally do to obtain the highest quality end result and kinda cut down on the mediocre gear that really won't get used. Plus I think having so many mics around your drumkit is just going to be a phase nightmare I don't really think it will help bring out more of the elements of the kit being recorded.

This is assuming you have adequate amounts of cables, stands, etc.