best placement for drum overheads

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by bachconnelly

Oh.. one more thing.. what is this placement called... i will forever know it as the recorderman placement.. but if someone else asks.. what do I call it?

D-

modified spaced pair

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

explained in video!


http://sfrecording.com/videos/DrumRecording.mp4

Thanks Brotha!

[tgrokz]

here i am, reporting from my basement/unfinished studio. i just tried the recorderman method in a completely untreated, open, filled with shit basement with 7' ceilings...and DAMN! i have neevr gotten my OHs to sound like this before. i panned each 70% left and right, and my one concern, the stereo spread, was sooo good. perfect.
i would take a picture, but i dont have a camera at all. this method WORKS, and quite well at that. this is something i will continue. my only problem is, i keep hitting the mic over my right shoulder when i play my ride. ill fix that though. ill post a sample later.

[AdamJay]

that's the beauty... it makes recording drums in bad rooms totally doable.
except when the bad room is in the drummer's house with ungrounded power..

here's some samples of the Recorderman in such a room (so please ignore the hum! ), un mixed. just panned the OH, and gated the toms/kick/snare
but 95% of the sound is in the OH which is a pair of Beyer M160's into a pair of A-Designs P1's

http://www.boldrecording.com/adamjay/drums/Drums1.mp3

http://www.boldrecording.com/adamjay/drums/Drums3.mp3

[tgrokz]

ok so heres a quick sample i just did. dont mind the bad playing.....i havent played my kit in many months (big regret). this is just OHs, completely unprocessed. nothing at all. the snare is too loud, so ill position the mics a bit differiently next time i suppose. i would do it now, but its girlfriend time.
the kit is a Tama Starclassic EFX going into C4's going into my mbox

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by tgrokz

ok so heres a quick sample i just did. dont mind the bad playing.....i havent played my kit in many months (big regret). this is just OHs, completely unprocessed. nothing at all. the snare is too loud, so ill position the mics a bit differiently next time i suppose. i would do it now, but its girlfriend time.
the kit is a Tama Starclassic EFX going into C4's going into my mbox

I don't think your snare is too loud Brotha.
You may want to add some samples of guitar and bass before repositioning the overheads.... I think you may find that the snare volume is just fine in a mix.
Hope you are enjoying the girlfriend time! lol

[DeadPoet]

Doing the recorderman-thing while tracking a grungy rock album this week. The drummer has a somewhat unusual setup (his kick is waaaay to the right, his right foot isn't even in parallel with the kick pedal) thus the left mic is more over the racktom than over the snare. Small room, kinda boomy sounding.

But boy .... KICK ASS DRUMS !!!! (it helps that he's one kick-ass-drummer, knowing how to tune his kick-ass-kit and playing kick-ass-tunes )

Used KM-184's -> LineAudio preamps (we used the 'money' pre's for the close mics) -> RNC (supernice, 4db GR on highest peaks) -> Tascam 1" 16track

Pics later this week.

(KickIn Shure91, KO:SM-7, SnTop&Bott:414, Tom&Floor Shure clipon-condensers, Hats Brauner Phantom AnnivEd, Ride SM-94, Room: Chinese Ribbon and Solidtube)


Herwig

[Gaston69]

Nobody loves a beautiful ORTF setup from behind the drummer? It sounds soooo gooood.
Regards Tamas Dragon

I totally agree with the ORTF, no phase problems, very good stereo image. I place 2 AKG414 or 2 AKGC391B in ORTF above drummers forehead approximatly 2meters. Use panning untill desired result.

Gaston

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by Gaston69

Nobody loves a beautiful ORTF setup from behind the drummer? It sounds soooo gooood.
Regards Tamas Dragon

I totally agree with the ORTF, no phase problems, very good stereo image. I place 2 AKG414 or 2 AKGC391B in ORTF above drummers forehead approximatly 2meters. Use panning untill desired result.

Gaston

Any pics of the ORTF set up?
Maybe AdamJay can find another instructional video clip?

I am going to have fun trying these options out on a new project starting next week,

[tamasdragon]

I have no pics, but believe what you hear. It may look little assymetric according to the drumset, but sounds good. Make it like the snare is the centre of the ortf.
Regards Tamas Dragon

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Gaston69

Nobody loves a beautiful ORTF setup from behind the drummer? It sounds soooo gooood.
Regards Tamas Dragon

I totally agree with the ORTF, no phase problems, very good stereo image. I place 2 AKG414 or 2 AKGC391B in ORTF above drummers forehead approximatly 2meters. Use panning untill desired result.

Gaston

i really like ORTF... but i have to be in a good room. And that is not always a luxury i have.

[Dougie Murray]

Hi guys,

sorry for the verry late posting of the mp3s of the album

all four tracks can be found at www.myspace.com/sabretung

if your not a member of myspace post me a comment here on gearslutz or email the band at sabretung@hotmail.com

[danno812]

I also tried the recorderman setup a week ago after reading about it here.

All I can say is...GREAT RESULTS!!

Thanks again GS!

[sammyp]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

Nobody loves a beautiful ORTF setup from behind the drummer? It sounds soooo gooood.
Regards Tamas Dragon

I agree! Sound time ago i did some stereo drum micing experiments with my Groove Tube Am51s. I remember liking ORTF better than XY. I usually use spaced pair just 'cause i like the width but i found ORTF to be a nice middle ground between spaced pair and XY. Gotta remember to try that again next time i have a drummer in.

[Dougie Murray]

BUMP

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

(but still measure to snare and kick for phase coherency)

I always get the snare equidistant but to this day can't for the life of me get the kick in that picture.

And if I do, it's such a whacked out spacing that my drummer threatens to kill the 'tom' mic.

And to be honest, I'd rather save my 4038's from that fate...

Any tips from y'all?

R.

[digibird]

Originally Posted by warhead

Since we're just kind of talking about results of drum mic'ing in general now, I got FANTASTIC results on a blues drummer the other day by putting two small condensors about 2' off the floor and 4' from the snare on both sides of the kit pointing in. Not above, just right into the middle height of the kit. Absolutely wonderful sound, picked the spot by moving around and listening and those two spots were just smokin'. The imaging was great, if you don't mind things not being perfectly centered like kick and snare...the kick was a bit right and the snare was a bit left of course!

Those are side address pencil mics on eval from Audio Technica so no...they're not pointing at the ceiling! New mic coming out called the ATM450.

War

It's very cool to read this now, as I just tried a similar thing with great results. I used 1 SDC just where you have it aimed mostly toward ride and floor tom . The second SDC was about 3 1/2 feet directly above the snare and exactly perpendicular to the 1st SDC. So, this approach is 1/2 War & 1/2 Recorderman. We can call this Warderman. Or not. But it sounded great.

[Recycled_Brains]

Originally Posted by danno812

I also tried the recorderman setup a week ago after reading about it here.

All I can say is...GREAT RESULTS!!

Thanks again GS!

Cool how-to video for the Recorderman technique:

http://sfrecording.com/videos/DrumRecording.mp4

[John Peacock]

Originally Posted by Gaston69

Nobody loves a beautiful ORTF setup from behind the drummer? It sounds soooo gooood.
Regards Tamas Dragon

I totally agree with the ORTF, no phase problems, very good stereo image. I place 2 AKG414 or 2 AKGC391B in ORTF above drummers forehead approximatly 2meters. Use panning untill desired result.

Gaston

I use OTRF as well. I place them just above the drummers head so that it is pretty close to what the drummer is actually hearing.

-Jp

[Dr Funk]

ORTF here as well, pair of KM184s into a Neve Portico, more or less over the drummer's head. Not exactly zero phase problems for me, but damn close! And a great stereo image.

Frank

[firstbat71]

How would I use the recordeman method with double bass setup? Could I make the reference point in the middle of both the bass drums instead of the way the video shows?

[Oroz]

ORTF here too. Have been experimenting with M/S also (mainly beause I wanted to use my R-122 as an OH mic, in conjunction with a SM81) but liked ORTF better (SM81's). Gonna try recorderman's aproach! Love this forum! Great info. and videos.

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by Yetti

Any pics of the ORTF set up?
Maybe AdamJay can find another instructional video clip?

I am going to have fun trying these options out on a new project starting next week,

Hope this helps:

ORTF (Office de Radiodiffusion' Television Francaise)
Cardioid Microphones
55º each/ 110º splayed
6.7 inches (17 cm) apart at the capsule.

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by Oroz

Hope this helps:

ORTF (Office de Radiodiffusion' Television Francaise)
Cardioid Microphones
55º each/ 110º splayed
6.7 inches (17 cm) apart at the capsule.

Thanks Brotha!
I will be experimenting for the best placement, but...
Is there a standard location?
Behind the drummer? Above? In front? How far?

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by Yetti

Thanks Brotha!
I will be experimenting for the best placement, but...
Is there a standard location?
Behind the drummer? Above? In front? How far?

I like it behind and above the drummer. I read on a magazine that this is how Frank Fillipeti places his OH mics, instead of putting them in front so I started to experiment with this technic and really like it. Keep the same distance from the snare to both mics as always.

[jeronimo]

what about a BUMP!

[jld!]

i used to do side mics (which take forever to get right) because i knew a guy who swore by it... come to think of it, he was a bit of a burnout, probably not the best guy to take any sort of advice from! haha!

from what i've read and heard here, i think i am going to be changing my drum mic set up! i'm not a fan of over processed, fake sounding drums, this just might breathe the life i needed in my mixes.

how well does this set up transfer over for other types of music?

p.s. thanks to everyone for the tips!