Studio Monitor Upgrade

[TheFutureIsSweet]

The better your monitors, the better you'll be able to judge your mixes. I just got mine today (Adam A7x, 940 euros for the pair of them), and it's shocking to listen to my mixes through them. I'll be mixing a lot of my stuff from scratch, since I can now hear all the errors I made (used to mix on an old pair of technics hifi speakers).

As far as clear, pleasant sound to listen to, I can recommend the Adam A7x's (but I'm biased, since any set of monitors would be an improvement over the old technics, and I've just got them so I'm high on the new sound). However: don't make the mistake to buy the A5x's (smaller brother of the A7x). I've tested them in the shop and they don't translate half as well as the A7x's. I found the bass in them to be lacking in definition (wich isn't surprising, since they are tiny), and the highs to be harsh and ugly sounding. In contrast the A7x's reproduce high frequencies very nicely, and the bass is tight and well defined.

KRK's are not for me, but that's just one opinion, and a controversial one at that. If I wanted to buy cheaper monitors than I did now, Yamaha HS80M would be my choice (500 euros a pair). Their sound is less sophisticated than the Adams but still very nice, and they offer plenty of low end, although I found it to be a bit muddy.

Before you buy yourself a set of monitors, go to a shop where you can listen to different pairs to find out what you like. I think that is absolutely vital. If they let you, test some cd's you know well. After you've found a pair and bought it, placing them right in the room will be your next assignment (it's my assignment now, and I expect it will get tricky).

[GZsound]

That's great advice. Go somewhere you can listen to various makes and models of monitors. Take a CD of music you are familiar with.

I spent over three hours at Guitar Center trying every monitor they had repeatedly. I played a couple CD's that I was very familiar with.

I ended up buying the HS80's instead of the A7's that I thought I wanted when I walked in. Just a big difference in tone and almost too much high end in the Adams. I got a great deal on the Yamaha monitors and love them to this day. My mixes translate very well.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Originally Posted by GZsound

That's great advice. Go somewhere you can listen to various makes and models of monitors. Take a CD of music you are familiar with.

I spent over three hours at Guitar Center trying every monitor they had repeatedly. I played a couple CD's that I was very familiar with.

I ended up buying the HS80's instead of the A7's that I thought I wanted when I walked in. Just a big difference in tone and almost too much high end in the Adams. I got a great deal on the Yamaha monitors and love them to this day. My mixes translate very well.

I understand what you mean about the Adam's A7, even though I have chosen them over the Yamaha's. The high end sounds so crisp that sometimes it's scary. I like the HS80's, and I was trying to convince myself to buying them, since it would save me 500 euros, and lord knows what I could have bought with that money. In the end, I had to have the Adam A7x's though, and after a day of listening to them I can honestly say, I am very happy.

I'm glad you back me up, in that the only way to know what you like is listening to them. You don't even buy a pair of jeans without trying them on, so if the shop tries to sell you something you haven't heard, walk away, and go someplace else. I didn't have this experience myself, but I heard a lot of complaints from people that their music shops have no place to test monitors, or won't allow it. Seriously, that is just unprofessional, and you shouldn't put up with it.

[willrocks]

Thanks all for the responses. What I am mainly interested in how much of an improvement a set of studio monitors will be over a set of nice computer speakers. I have these now: Newegg.com - Logitech Z-5500 505 Watts 5.1 Digital Speaker System

Not made for recording, but not junk either.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

With all due respect to the high end computer speakers you own, I think monitors will still be a great improvement. My experience with computers speaker sets is that they are optimized for gaming and movies, meaning you'll get exaggerated bass and exaggerated highs, to create an "impressive" sound. I don't know those particular logitechs, so I can't comment on their performance, I am speaking in general.

I've mixed on hifi speakers for years, and I got fairly decent results from some of them. Now I own these Adams and they give me a better insight in my mixes. I can hear details I haven't been able to hear before, and I get a good idea of the frequencies that are over- or underrepresented in my mixes. This will help me to mend the errors I made on a lot of my work, and I'll feel a lot more confident my mixes will translate well on other speakers. Even so, I'll keep the original speakers I have on the side for reference, just to get a "second opinion".

However, as has already been said, we can debate this for weeks, and you'll be none the wiser. You'll need to test a couple of pairs out. Take a cd you know well, and preferrably a couple of your own mixes, and go and listen to them on different sets of monitors. Personally, I think you'll learn more in only an hour doing that, than you'll learn from any gearhead on this forum. Not because "we" don't know (quotation marks there, because I am rather new here, and I don't pretend to know as much as a lot of people on this forum), but because it is about what you feel comfortable working with, and what allows you to get a good insight into your mixes.

[AudioFocus]

+1 for the Yamahas. I have heard the HS80s and I personally have been mixing on HS50s for about 6 months now. I like them. A little lacking on the low end but very revealing in the mid-range.

[willrocks]

OK I have decided to go for a monitor. I only have money for one right now. My budget is up to $175. I was interested in the KRK Rokit 6 G2's, but I heard they are bass heavy. I will be recording rock/blues stuff, electric guitar & bass guitar, and acoustic stuff, and was concerned the Rokit's might muddy up the bass frequencies. What recommendations do you guys have?

[ksandvik]

Try instead to find a pair of used but good monitors, Mackie, Events, brands like that. Craigslist is your friend. You purchase low end KRKs and if your fidelity ear grows, you outgrow the KRKs within months or less.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

I doubt buying 1 monitor will improve your mixes much. Either shop for a pair of decent secondhand ones within your current budget, or save up some more money to buy new ones. 175 dollars will not get you something that will greatly improve your sound. Only one Yamaha HS50M costs 150 euros where I live, and personally I would be suspicious about anything costing less. So save up for a couple of months and then buy two decent ones, instead of buying one or a crappy pair now.

[willrocks]

Are those Yamaha HS550 better than the KRK for blues/rock recording? MF has a sale on them now. Also, is there no point in only buying one for now?

[TheFutureIsSweet]

As for the KRK's vs the Yamahas, you should listen to them. I'd choose the Yamahas over the KRK's anyday, but I have hear people give good reviews on the KRK's as well. My neighbour owns the HS50M's so I've heard them quite a lot, and they seem perfect for his electronic work. Another friend owns the bigger brothers of them, the HS80M's and does a lot of guitar work, wich sound pretty good as well. Ideally a monitor should do well on any type of music, but when budget is an issue, it stands to reason that corners were cut on all of your options, wich means that there will be big differences between them, and that means some will be better for one type of music, while other work better for another type of music.

But what you really want from your monitors is honesty, and that means a reasonably flat response. I say reasonably, because genuinely flat monitors don't exist, and they certainly don't exist in the price range you will be looking at. This goes for every type of music. So try to find a place where you can test monitors out and find what you like.

Your second question about the one monitor then. One monitor will give you a very one-dimensional reference. This is fine if you want to mix music for elevators or tannoy systems in stores, but keep in mind that everyone else listens to stereo. It's makes no sense to mix with a monitor on one ear and your logitechs on the others, or to use the one monitor as a sort of center speaker in your setup (at least not as far as I know and believe). It will simply not give you a good reference of how your mix will sound on a conventional stereo setup.

You need two, and you need to place them well, so that from your listening position you hear the stereo positioning well. Only then will having monitors be an improvement over your Logitechs. If I were you, I'd stick with the logitechs for now, and save up until you can afford at least the pair of Yamaha HS50Ms. The Logitechs are not necessarily very bad to work on for now. Ideally, save up some more, and widen your choices. There's Genelecs, KRKs, Adams, some people mention Mackies or Events, all offer some models in the 500/1000 euros for a pair range, wich will last you longer as you become more demanding. However, I realise that might not be an option for you, so I say HS50M's. That's around 300 bucks, wich means waiting a bit longer, but it'll be worth the wait.

[RoadToNever]

His speakers are THX-certified, why bother upgrading?

[willrocks]

Originally Posted by RoadToNever

His speakers are THX-certified, why bother upgrading?

Honestly man I really can't tell if your ****ing with me but I came here for some helpful advice and would appreciate that. Thanks.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Another small piece of advice. As long as you mix on the Logitechs, try to find out their limitations. Test music you know on them, and if you get a chance, on other speakers as well. For the time being that is your best option to avoid problems with your mixes later on. If for instance, they are exaggerated in the bass and high frequencies (wich I think is likely for reasons I mentioned before), keep that in mind while mixing (so if your Sub and Bass is sounding perfect on your Logitechs, turn them up a little bit more in your mix, and if the mid is sounding perfect, dip those frequencies a little bit.

If you know your speakers well (and keep a set of headphones handy for fixing details that your speakers won't allow you to hear well) you can achieve reasonably good results on a pair of household hifi speakers. In the meantime, save up money, read any article on monitors you can find, and jump at any chance to test pairs of them. Once again, the more money you save, the more choices will be available to you. And when it turns out the monitors you settle on are cheaper than the money you saved up for it: Great, that money can then be put to good use in buying room treatment, or be a starting buffer to buying that guitar amp you've always dreamed of (my examples).

Last bit of advice, don't be put off by ironic gearslutz who make silly remarks. There's a bunch of them on this forum, and they don't mean real harm (apart from a couple of unrelenting idiots, who loudly claim that spending anything less than a 100,000 dollars on an XLR cable is a waste of money, ignore those. Reality is they own only an old Sony tapedeck with a built in microphone and need to compensate somehow).

[RoadToNever]

Originally Posted by willrocks

Honestly man I really can't tell if your ****ing with me but I came here for some helpful advice and would appreciate that. Thanks.

Dude, if you are able to let go of the paranoia that someone is out to knock you off of your high horse and instead try to read between the lines (or simply take notice of the wink-wink smiley)you could probably extract some information from my remark.