suggestion on overhead drum mics and other band mics stuff

[coffeecigarrette]

oh and if anybody has any suggestions on my other mic choices please let me know, thanks!

[zzzxtreme]

the t.bone SC 140 stereo set

currently I'm using AKG Perception 170, on the budget side, they sound "creamy and controlled".

[coffeecigarrette]

thanks dudeski im about to look them up

[coffeecigarrette]

so no large diaphragm, is small diaphragm better for overheads? or what? just preference?

[stuartb]

On a budget i'd DI bass rather than mic. Most amps will have a line out, either Jack or XLR that you can just plug straight into the recorder.

for cheap/decent overheads i'd recommend the superlux S502. Or Octava M012

and yes small diaphragm is 'generally' used for overheads as they deal with off-axis sounds a bit better. You do see Large diaphragm used a bit though, especially AKG414s and i've had some success in the past with Rode NT1s.

[NeoHippy]

whats your budged? but i really really really like 2x tlm102 on overheads in ORTF....sounds sweet, silky highend...love it!

cheers

[stuartb]

OP is buying a zoom because 'its the cheapest recorder' that fits the bill. and states he is on a 'serious budget'.

Now granted 'serious budget' could be seriously big or seriously small, but i'd put money on an £8/900 pair of neumanns being a bit out his price range!

[Neonknight]

Originally Posted by stuartb

On a budget i'd DI bass rather than mic. Most amps will have a line out, either Jack or XLR that you can just plug straight into the recorder.

Good advice, for bass DI is the most important part of a recorded sound and should be 1st choice IMHO.

Originally Posted by zzzxtreme

the t.bone SC 140 stereo set

Really nice mics for the money, i have a pair myself, comes with case and shockmounts if you buy the matched pair.

I also own a R16 myself which i use for live recordings and live pre production demos for my band. Great little unit, i like it a lot for what i use it for at least, havent tested it in any other way though, it is a very versatile unit.

[x_25]

Just as an asside, there is no reason drums have to be in stereo. Snare, kick and mono overhead can get the job done nicely.

With the guitars, it is hard to go wrong with sm57s, bass direct is certainly cheeper than micing and generally more useful if you are running cheeper gear.

For vocals, you would be supprised how well an sm57 works, though you could also use the drum overhead mic. This is assuming you are dubing the vocals in after. Getting a useable vocal track with everyone in the same room can be hard, so if you don't have somwhere to stick the vocalist I would do that.

My last project I used a blue spark as a mono drum overhead and it came out nicely. If you are on a really, really tight budget and do want stereo though, look into the CAD CM217. I have used a pair for a while, and while not the best they sound ok, and at $60 a pair, hard to go wrong.

[zzzxtreme]

Behringer xm8500 is a wonderful mic for vocals, kicks

[Neonknight]

Originally Posted by zzzxtreme

Behringer xm8500 is a wonderful mic for vocals, kicks

yes, good vaule for money.

Id like to add the t.bone MB85 Beta which IMHO is better than an SM58, i have three myself.

[indie folk guy]

first and foremost set a budget, figure out what type of sounds you are after
do you own any of the gear yet or are you just speculating the stuff you mentioned?
would you consider buying used gear or does it have to be new?

Here are some generalized suggestions not knowing your budget and assuming you are buying new and are starting from scratch:

there are tons of options for drum overheads do you want mono or stereo?
do you want a condenser, dynamic, or ribbon mic(s)?
condenser-large or small diaphragm (I like and use both it boils down to preference)
best cheap LDC (not knowing your budget) CAD M179
best cheap SDCs (not knowing your budget) Beyerdynamic MC530 set, AT4041 set, CAD E70 set (these are a brighter sound)
best cheap Dynamics Heil PR30
best cheap ribbons Cascade Fathead or VinJet (stock transformers are fine)
now before you even think about snare/kick how are you going to mic the kit up?
try some minimalist techniques you'd be surprised how good less mics can sound on a kit (of course you have to be going for the more cohesive instrument, organic tone)
Glyn Johns, Recorderman, FOK, at most I'd say use 4-5 mics (kick, snare, overheads, optional room)
My favorite budget kick mic is the Heil PR48 and my favorite budget snare mic is the Heil PR20UT, IMHO and IME these sound lightyears better than the industry standards (D112, Beta 52, D6 on kick and SM57 on snare they give the Beyer M201 a run for the money) I steer away from the popular pre-sculpted kick mics (it's hard to add back what they often take away).

Onto the bass, I'd suggest running it DI most mics that really start doing a good job on bass cabs are around $300+ (heil pr40, shure sm7, sennheiser md421, ev re-20, beyer m88, etc)

I think if you are trying to save money the Sennheiser e609 is a great guitar cab mic you can eliminate the purchase of two mic stands by getting those over SM57s. Plus you still get a great (sometimes better) sounding mic. Just drape em over the cabinet using a mic cable.

As for the vocal mic....male or female singer? what does their voice sound like? what style of music?
I tend to suggest the Heil PR35 for handheld dynamic or a condenser when you want even more detail.

Don't forget that treating your room is paramount as is having a great source to record
SOURCE>ROOM>MIC>PREAMP>RECORDING INTERFACE/CONVERTER/RECORDER>CABLES should be the order of your priorities for tracking
before you get caught up in gear do you guys know your material inside and out? can you perform flawlessly, etc. No gear selection will make up for a lack of talent (on the performing and engineering side). You can buy the most expensive gear in the world but not knowing how to use it can create major ro*******s.

Don't forget to get good monitoring for the band if you are on a budget you can do something simple like a headphone bundle
Presonus HP4 and AKG K77 4 pack would be my budget suggestion (4 pairs of decent sounding closed back cans and a decent headphone amp)

Don't forget to invest in mic stands, cables, pop filter, and whatever other accessories you'll need these can eat your budget quickly.

Make sure you have a good way to mix stuff, do you have a set of nearfield monitors? if no and you are on a budget buy one really nice set of headphones in the $200+ range (beyer dt770 would be my choice but there are a ton of options)

[x_25]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Or kick and a mono overhead. Or just a mono overhead, copy the wav and eq out the high frequencies on one of the tracks to boost the kick drum.

True, but this sounds like a rock band type setup, so the sound of close miced snare and kick are expected. If it were a jazz group I would be the first to say just use one mic.

[RoadToNever]

What's your budget OP?

[Wattie1096]

Check out a pair of the 12 Gauge Microphone Greens for OH's. Less than $100 a pair shipped and they are friendly in untreated rooms, which I assume you have. They do require Phantom; if you're Zoom phantom channels are tied up, look into a used Presonus Bluetube on Ebay; they can be had for around another $100. I often use my Greens for OH's and I have a few sets of SDC's that cost five times as much. No, they aren't "transparent" but the sound they have/the character of the mics is decent, especially if you are recording some type of "dirty" Rock And Roll. You'll also need to buy some spring clips to mount them, but they sell 4-packs of those on Ebay as well for under $15. I've also used my Greens in an XY set-up to record Polka horns with great results; the band leader liked the sound better than my Royers.

For less than $100 a pair, I can't believe these mics don't get more praise. May as well pick up a Red for $35 as well; mixed with a 57 or i5 on guitar cabs, you can get some pretty burly sounds. They also work great as an under-snare mic.

Just my humble 2-cents.

[Manfrensengensen]

I use just 2 mic's most of the time for live recordings. Kick and an overhead large diaphragm. If you go this route you've also got a decent vocal mic too.
Depending on budget look at the akg perception 220 or 420. Even the C214 if you can afford it. AT makes some decent LDC's in these price points as well.

I place the LDC By the drummer's shoulder pointed down at the center of the kit. it's more balanced then overhead to me which can be too bright.