need help with pci card and ad converters

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

The first RME card that comes to mind is the RayDAT. You'd need to couple it with converters, and there are a couple of options that would work depending upon your budget. you can use 2 RayDATs in one machine if you need more channels.

[popmann]

Cheapest option is a pair of MOTU 24io...or a 24io and 2408 to give 32x32 analog AND 24x24 digital...but, I think is does total limit to 48x48--but gives you ADAT, SPDIF, and 32x32 analog.

New ones will actually be PCIexpress...but there's a pair as described for sale in the classifieds here right now--that I'd have bought if it were Express, but it's PCI.

[jakson]

So basically i buy that card then i still have to get 32 channels of adat convertors. Im looking of something with no preamps or possibly bypass-able pres. Any suggestions on that? I need something at a decent price but something with great quality and will last me awhile

[popmann]

Not mine....$1000 used....32x32 analog balance line IO. No preamps. And some digital IO to boot should you need or want to hook up more. If you want, you can add another two...any two of the MoTU 424 line. memory serves, maxes at 128x128?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...l-station.html

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by jakson

So basically i buy that card then i still have to get 32 channels of adat convertors. Im looking of something with no preamps or possibly bypass-able pres. Any suggestions on that? I need something at a decent price but something with great quality and will last me awhile

You know, the RayDAT may be PCIe... anyway, I've always subscribed to the idea that i wanted my interface to be all digital, with outboard and therefore upgradable AD/DA. In my studio we used the Frontier designs Dakota/Montana for 32 channels, and a Multiface for 24. This gave us the flexibility to buy some 'golden' AD/DA channels and some lesser ones, and allowed us to upgrade incrementally as we could afford to do so. Just to put that into a modern perspective, you can buy an acceptable Behringer ADA 8000 which is 8 channels of line and mic and conversion for around $230. To get 32 channels of AD, DA, line I/O and mic pres for a little over $900 is very cheap. At your comfort level, upgrade them to whatever quality you can afford, without ever having to mess with the computer, deal with drivers, a new learning curve, or any of that other nonsense, just plug in the new gear and continue. We liked Mytek converters and settled there, but the sky can be the limit.

[jakson]

I just looked up the motu stuff and that looks to be exactly what im looking for at a price i like as well. Any word on quality? Does it perform well for the money or are there better options for less money???

[jakson]

Ive been doing some research and ive seen nothing but bad reviews about motu stuff.. but nothing real specific about the 24io. Even though a couple of 24io is exactly what i need at a price i can afford.. im worried about quality and support. So i guess ill go for rme stuff... but its much much more expensive. Is there anything else out the thats better quality than the motu stuff but cheaper than rme?

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

I just want to mention (and yeah, I am a former unhappy Motu owner, too...) that the really big deal for me about the RME stuff is that when it is installed, I never have to think about it afterwards, There is a GREAT big headache removed from the whole recording process, and for -me- it was worth every penny. Plus, the RME gear has legs... they maintain and support their gear for a very, very long time, thus it will last a very long time. My old studio (I'm not there anymore) is still running on the Mulitface we bought when it was a brand new product.

[popmann]

No one will call an ADA8000 going through the preamp a better conversion than a MOTU. I question that. Youre mixing issues...Your relative happiness is about RME drivers. Yes, you will have easier function with RME. And functionally never see 88.2 with all the ADAT ports meaning when you need to work at 88/96, you have SPDIF. 2x2. Or you can spend many thousands on SMUX compatible conversion (none of the inexpensive options support it).

You were unhpy with MOTU's PCI solution? Or a USB or FW that also relies on a whole other layer of OS drivers?

I will just say look somewhere other than here. There are some really bizarre feedback loops here...Lynx great, MOTU bad...TLM103 is a terrible mic...the LA610 is a distortion box ...

You're on a budget that 99.9% of the market today would just be mixing in software...no use for so much IO.

[popmann]

RME's great. There's just no big IO option at 88/96. And you KNOW that Multiface sounds better at 96--it's what it was designed for. To beat Digi/Avid to high sample rates.

But, if you're the guy that says it make no difference...even no difference with inexpensive converters? Then sure, I'd rather have the RME, too, on Windows.

[psycho_monkey]

Why do you need such a large io count?

[jakson]

The studio i intern at caters to a large market of local bands that think since there recording at a million dollar studio, that they ought to be able to track, mix amd master there full cd in 1 day. This mentality keeps the engineer from having the proper time to find the right mic/pre combo for the situation. So 90% of the time he just has time to get as many mics up as possible and live track the entire band at one time.

Example.. the engineer will set up 2 cabs for every guitar player and throw up 4 mics between the 2. Usually a royer 121 - md421 - 57 - AT 4047. Now if there are 2 guitar players.. that 4 mic set up just got doubled. And now during mixing he can pic and choose the mics/ sound he thinks will fit the mix most.

I know 32-48 seems a bit ridiculous, but when i start my own small studio i know ill be pulling the same kinds of bands. And i just want to know under any situation ill be covered.

[studio825]

AudioFire 12 | Echo Audio Corporation

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by jakson

The studio i intern at caters to a large market of local bands that think since there recording at a million dollar studio, that they ought to be able to track, mix amd master there full cd in 1 day. This mentality keeps the engineer from having the proper time to find the right mic/pre combo for the situation. So 90% of the time he just has time to get as many mics up as possible and live track the entire band at one time.

Example.. the engineer will set up 2 cabs for every guitar player and throw up 4 mics between the 2. Usually a royer 121 - md421 - 57 - AT 4047. Now if there are 2 guitar players.. that 4 mic set up just got doubled. And now during mixing he can pic and choose the mics/ sound he thinks will fit the mix most.

I know 32-48 seems a bit ridiculous, but when i start my own small studio i know ill be pulling the same kinds of bands. And i just want to know under any situation ill be covered.

Fair enough - but what a terrible way to work! Surely if you're short of time, rather than a load of mediocre badly positioned options, it's better to record one well placed mic - that's the benefit of experience and go-to options.

Please - don't base your methodology on this way of working. You'd do far better with fewer, quality options - and people working under pressure in high end situations (we still have to work quickly there too) don't work like this.

It just adds plenty of time at the mixing stage for a start.

[DCT3]

FWIW I have a MOTU 2408 PCI (NOT the PCIexpress) and love it. I got it used off of ebay and never had any problems with it. If for some reason you NEED PCIexpress in the future you can buy just the controller card itself.

[jakson]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Fair enough - but what a terrible way to work! Surely if you're short of time, rather than a load of mediocre badly positioned options, it's better to record one well placed mic - that's the benefit of experience and go-to options.

Please - don't base your methodology on this way of working. You'd do far better with fewer, quality options - and people working under pressure in high end situations (we still have to work quickly there too) don't work like this.

It just adds plenty of time at the mixing stage for a start.

He is an amazing engineer with great ears. But i agree with you that with all that experience and knowledge you would just sort of know what works. Because bonestly 9 times out of 10 he ends up using just the royer. But he apparently loves having the options at mixing time.

[jakson]

Originally Posted by studio825

AudioFire 12 | Echo Audio Corporation

Just looked that up real quick. Looks awesome, got alot of good reviews amd is an AWESOME price. Any word on how the converters compare to rme stuff?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by jakson

He is an amazing engineer with great ears. But i agree with you that with all that experience and knowledge you would just sort of know what works. Because bonestly 9 times out of 10 he ends up using just the royer. But he apparently loves having the options at mixing time.

I'm sure he is talented. Maybe it really is the perfect way for him to work.

If you have the resources, sure, record everything and ignore half of it come mix time.

But you don't have the resources really. You're spreading a budget thinly in order to be able to accomodate this (in my eyes) flawed way of working.

I would be much more confident of getting a good sounding recording with one great mic on a guitar amp running through one quality preamp, than I would be with 5 cheap options.

If there is such a thing, the "standard" setup of a PT rig in a reasonable size studio is 24in/48out (3 x 192s with extra analogue output cards). Rarely should you need anything more.

In your situation, I'd record each guitar part with a maximum of 2 sources. 2 mics if you have the time to phase align them properly and they're reasonable quality, or one mic plus a DI in case re-amping is needed. No more. That's just overcomplicating things.

It's probably hard (and maybe feels disloyal) to realise, if you've not had a lot of other professional experience other than working for this guy, that his way of working is quite unique. Most pro guys really don't work like this - it overcomplicates the mix situation if nothing else. But were I looking to start my own space, I would in no way base it on this way of working. Are you really going to have the recording space to justify a 48 input recording path? Are you content using cheaper gear if there's a lot of it (would you rather have the choice of 5 different mcdonalds burgers, or one great steak - Hey! you've got options...tired analogy I know) or would you do better work with one great set of tools?

Just food for thought. On your budget, I'd be looking for fewer quality tools. I wouldn't even want to run my own drum-capable setup to be honest, I'd rather hire someone else's for the days I'd need to record drums.

Talking of which, if you do "start your own studio", why would you not focus on the overdubbing section, and hire the studio you currently intern at for the one day out of 5-6 that you actually need to record drums for? Believe me, things work out a lot cheaper that way! Let someone else cover the cost of the multitudes of mics and large space needed for a small part of the process, and concentrate on investing in a few quality pieces for vocals and overdubs.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by DCT3

FWIW I have a MOTU 2408 PCI (NOT the PCIexpress) and love it. I got it used off of ebay and never had any problems with it....

seems to be the way that it works.. for the many for whom they work, the users are very happy and life is great. But for the few who end up with problems, those problems can't always be solved. Obviously they could not have the great market penetration that they have if the gear was bad, it is not bottom budget stuff, and the feature sets are usually pretty cool, too.

I'm in the 'once bitten, twice shy' category.

[jakson]

I actually agree with you. Id rather set up a royer 121 on a guitar cab through a great pre and call it a day. He just sticks to a rule of leaving all your big decisions towards mix time.

The only problem with your drum idea for me, is that most bands in our area are only getting a day at a time and trying to walk away with 4-5 rough tracks in a day. I doubt i can talk them into tracking drums at one studio for $500 a day, then coming to my studio for everything else for less. At that point they should have just went to the big studio.

Dont get me wrong.. these arent the bands i always want to work with, however its def where the money is at in our market. And its a great way to spread my name locally

[jakson]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

seems to be the way that it works.. for the many for whom they work, the users are very happy and life is great. But for the few who end up with problems, those problems can't always be solved. Obviously they could not have the great market penetration that they have if the gear was bad, it is not bottom budget stuff, and the feature sets are usually pretty cool, too.

I'm in the 'once bitten, twice shy' category.

Im only hesitant on the motu gear because it seems that the only people talking about it are the ones who have had problems. Maybe thats because the ones that like it are busy tracking as we speak. Lol.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by jakson

The only problem with your drum idea for me, is that most bands in our area are only getting a day at a time and trying to walk away with 4-5 rough tracks in a day. I doubt i can talk them into tracking drums at one studio for $500 a day, then coming to my studio for everything else for less. At that point they should have just went to the big studio.

Fair point. In which case, get a solid dependable setup that stays in place with minimal variation. Few options bar maybe vocals and stuff to cover you if something breaks, and leave everything setup permanently. Ideally you'd leave the kit set up as well, but that does depend on bands.

Originally Posted by jakson

Dont get me wrong.. these arent the bands i always want to work with, however its def where the money is at in our market. And its a great way to spread my name locally

Bands....have NO money in general!

[George Necola]

Originally Posted by jakson

Im only hesitant on the motu gear because it seems that the only people talking about it are the ones who have had problems. Maybe thats because the ones that like it are busy tracking as we speak. Lol.

motu hd192. a bit dark sounding and flobby lows, but was mostly stable all the time on win xp back in the day and better then the most stuff in this price range. the conversion was a lot better then the io24 one to my ears.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk

[jakson]

so true. Bands are always broke.

Does anyone have any input on the echo audiofire 12???