Fav "warm" mic around $200 for vocals/acoustic guitar only?
Looking at the CAD M179 a lot..
But wanted to make sure I got something WARM. I've owned a few entry level LDC's and they've ALWAYS been harsh I'm willing to go DARK sounding even lol, and then add some EQ to brighten.
Also, I dont mind buying used...so a $300 LDC used for $200 works for me...of course $100-200 brand new is not out of the question.
This would be for vocals and acoustic guitar only...no cab micing, overheads, etc.
Warm, meaty vocals and fully capable of saddling up to any acoustic instrument including hand percussion and effects percussion. Also a killer mic for live apps that's rugged enough to be a workhorse on stage for years.
Hey Jason, it's Greg. I just picked up a MXL v67g if you wanna get together and have a test with it. It sure is cheap, but so far I think it sounds pretty dang good on my vocals.
I've heard a lot of people say the MXL 2003 is really flat in its frequency response and has been described as slightly "darkish" on top if I remember correctly.
Have you seen this thread? kidvybes did a shootout with these two among other low end mics, with reggae vocals and acoustic guitar no less! I know this is up your alley:
I've had SM7b, Cascade Fathead, Apex 205, Kel HM2d. Best all around for me would have to be the Kel. It's neutral and meaty without loss of detail. I wouldn't want to use the SM7b on acoustic, and didn't really like it on vox either. Good for 'radio announcer' voice though.
The 'biggest' sounding is definitely the Apex 205 - just 3d and huge, killer proximity effect, sounds like Bing Crosby or Sinatra big crooner vocals. A bit grainy though, and wouldn't want that sound on everything. A sleeper on bass cab.
The Cascade is a good all arounder, too, but not as nice as the Kel IMO. Keep in mind that ribbons are figure of eight - you may or may not want to capture more room sound. The Kel and SM7b are much better with rejection.
You could also look into an Oktava MK 219 or 319 - they are said to be very smoky and dark, tho I have never used one.
Your pre will have an impact on your sound as well. I recommend browsing CL for something like the Yamaha RM or MC series from the 80s. I once bought an 8 channel wood panel board for $40, and the pres were super sexy and thick, like a 55 year old black woman in a purple dress. My stock Profire 2626 sounded quite thin by comparison, and I even preferred them to my ART MPA Gold.
Ya the Apex 205 is essentially the same mic as the Vin-jet. They're both long-ribbon designs which give more detail and high frequency range than a short ribbon like a Fathead. You won't find a warmer sound than this, or anything that takes eq this well. The Vin-jet has better quality control compared to the Apex and has a few internals upgraded.
"Warm" is a very tricky and subjective term. Full lows. Rolled off trebles (or just flat rather than peaked). Both. Neither. Beautiful mids. Etc. etc. Describing your take as "precisely" as you can will help.
Also, keep in mind that most entry level LDC mikes have K67-style capsules, but without a de-emphasis circuit to compensate for their brightness. Changing such capsules for K47-style instantly solves the hyped brightness (although some harshness could remain from poor parts in the circuit).
The CAD M179 isn't as bright as most of the other LDCs in its price range BTW.
If correcting hyped trebles to flat isn't enough and rolled off trebles are favored, do look into ribbon mikes. Other than that they have condenser-like qualities.
Dynamic moving coil mikes could be described as "warm" by nature, too. They're not nearly as fast as either condensers or ribbons, though.
One example that was mentioned here is the EV N/D 767. It has full lows and an extended treble range (as compared to average moving coils that is). Its brother, the 967, has less deep lows and less extended trebles. These two are interesting again in this context, as one camp would call the bassier 767 warmer, while another camp will call the less bright 967 warmer.
(FWIW, I once ordered both, expecting to like the 767 better, but ended up with two 967s.)
I guess i'm calling the 4040's absence of any brittleness, warmth.
It's got a nice bottom with smooth top,
gives it a bit of a scooped sound, but not really.
Just smooth in the mids, at least on my voice.
Oddly, the sm7b sounds processed to me... compressed.
Still like it though, for the right kind of delivery.
Yeah, I would call the 4040 more transparent than warm, but compared to some of the ultra low cost LDCs it may be considered warm-er because of the lack of brittle high end and low self noise (handles high gain well without hiss, you can really drive a tube pre without unwanted racket from the mic's electronics). The 4040 is fantastic on acoustic guitars, but can either work very well, or somewhat badly for vocals. Depends on the singer, there is very little middle ground though. I highly recommend the mic, but if you plan on singing through it I would say try it before you buy it. Don't give up on it just because it doesn't work with your voice though, you will be very happy with it on other stuff.
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What do you mean "make it cut through the mix"? I've been trying all afternoon to bury it with a stake through it's heart!
I'd say go with a ribbon mic. They tend to take eq very well, and definitely have a warm, rich, but accurate sound characteristic. I like the DIY Austin Ribbon mics, if you are willing to put in some work, or pay somebody to assemble them for you. You do need a nice pre to get the levels up, or a Cloudlifter type booster.
To the OP, have you used any LDCs you thought didn't sound harsh?
Im gonna have to go thru all these suggestions one-by-one lol. Greg, thanks for that link to those tests.
I'm thinkn ribbon now too..but yes, room rejection is something I kinda want and is why I'm looking into the SM7b also. Someone I know wasn't totally happy with it though (Greg lol..). I'd be running thru a GAP Pre73. My room is fairly well treated...and I can probably add more, but building panels isn't my idea of fun anymore >:(
I've never used ribbon mics...the Cascade and Apex are going to pickup sound from behind the mic with the figure 8?
Lots of helpful suggestions on this thread--and I'm getting more and more tempted to pull the trigger on that Kel. But I can't help but wonder how many of us search out the "warm" mics and then turn around and boost 10K in the mix? Be honest!
Check out the used section at guitar centers online page and type in
' studio vocal mic " lots of good choices will pop up,some of the ones suggested will too. Pretty prices also i talked down a store manager into letting me get a Sterling Audio ST66 for $129.
Hey bro, its not so much that I thought the sm7b was bad- I just felt it wasnt very "magic" on my voice. Keep in mind that my budget at the time was considerably larger and I passed on the sm7b in comparison to an $1800 Telefunken AR-51. Its a pretty great mic in this price range, and it is certainly less bright and hyped than A LOT of condensers in this price range. You could definitely make some great recordings with it. Its room rejection really is an attribute of note for the small project studio.
My gut feeling is that Ribbons, although totally cool for the color they bring to the party, MIGHT not be the best choice for a home studio's only mic or among just another choice. It seems like versatility should trump most requirements for your first couple of mics.
I think if your really scared of crappy highs, and you still want versatility, look toward the Kel Hm-2d, the Mxl 2003a, or the sm7b.
Kel has a generous return policy, and you could buy and return an sm7b from sam ash if you dont like it, so I'd start there man.
Like I said, feel free to hit me up and try out my v67g though too. I picked it for MY vocals because it has a nice healthy mid range without the sibilance of a lot of mics I tried. And it was under $100 for gods sake!
Oh I didn't realize this would be your only mic...
While micing everything with a good ribbon would be workable and give you a very distinctive sound, I wouldn't really suggest it for no other reason than that if you manage to destroy the mic, which is relatively easy to do with ribbons, then you can't record anything until it is fixed.
Re: picking up room sound with ribbons, I don't find that this is too pronounced. Fig 8 patterns actually reject extra sound from everything but the back lobe, so they can give better isolation than cardioid, as long as you are smart about where you point them.
If it is your only mic, then I would suggest a good quality dynamic, esp a sennheiser md441 if you can get one at a good price. Still needs a pretty good pre. The Kel offering might be worth checking out too.
@lpedrum, I think boosting highs is ok. Why it works better sometimes to EQ something like a ribbon mic than to use a cheap bright condenser, aside from differences in the ways the types of mics respond to transients, is that a lot of that harshness in the cheap LDCs is actually distortion.
sE Electronics sE X1 is not a bad choice in this catagory. I was using a CAD M37 which is the ezaxct same model as the M177 which is the cardiod only version of them M179. We were noticing a proximity effect. Close up it was great but pull back it started to lose its fullness. We grabbed X1 on the fly and it has worked out great. No proximity effect and just as Warm as the CAD. The singer was even impressed.
sE Electronics sE X1 is not a bad choice in this catagory. I was using a CAD M37 which is the ezaxct same model as the M177 which is the cardiod only version of them M179. We were noticing a proximity effect. Close up it was great but pull back it started to lose its fullness. We grabbed X1 on the fly and it has worked out great. No proximity effect and just as Warm as the CAD. The singer was even impressed.
I'm not too keen on the CAD mics.
Had a M37 myself for years but never was happy with it in any application really. Ended up selling it to buy an 3035 - instant joy.
You're right about the electronics too, the M37 has the same PCB as the 177. Says it right on the board itself. Always thought that was interesting.
I have an Oktava MK319 that I modified per Scott Dorsey's article, and I very much like it for rich, full acoustic guitar and some vocalists (though I do have other mics that get more use on vocals). Still, the modded version is quite nice, though the quality of the capsules seems to vary significantly from mic to mic, so you might just have to luck into a great mic.
If you get a good one, though, it can be very good indeed, FWIW.
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I'm willing to go DARK sounding even lol, and then add some EQ to brighten.
