R-19 for DIY bass traps?

[Steve Ouimette]

Since my budget isn't allowing for prebuilt bass traps (I have more time than money) I was considering building traps for my room (13'3"x17'x9-12' sloped back
ceiling). Somebody had mentioned at one point that 12" thick R-19
insulation would be as good as 705. Would you think that would be a good
way to go or perhaps it would be better to use the 705 and distance it from
the wall?

There are a few studios in my area that like the results they get but before go building crazy I thought I'd ask for the help of the experts here. My room has saltillo tile floors with rugs and the rest is just bare walls with some Auralex T-Fusers on the left and right of my mix walls. No foam or any other treatment as of yet.

The bass is incredibly bad in this room!

Thank you for the help.
Steve

[6strings]

Bookmark this page and come back after you've digested everything...

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html.

[Chris Parsons]

For R-19 to do the same thing as 703/705 you would just need a lot of it. That would take up much more space and cost much more money than just getting some 703/705.

[RedWallStudio]

If you are getting the R-19 at a huge discount, go for it... but you will get much better results with 2 or 4 inch 703 or 705. Plus the 703 and 705 is rigid.. so you can wrap it with fabric and it looks a hundred times better... R-19 is floppy and compresses way too easy.

Here is the place to find 703 & 705. http://www.spi-co.com/servicecenterdirectory.mv

also go to www.johnlsayers.com Tons of info there. Just do yourself a favor and do some research on that site before you put up any blind posts asking for help... for some reason they occassionally don't take kindly to people jumping on the site and just asking for help.tutt

[Steve Ouimette]

Thanks for the help guys. I've done a lot of reading on Ethan's page and am digesting a lot of information. No special discount on the R19, it's just more readily available around the corner, but that doesn't mean it's the way I want to go...certainly not looking to shrink my room...just the bass!

And.. I hear you on the rules. More research to do...and I appreciate not getting flamed for asking the question.

Steve

[Ethan Winer]

Steve,

> Somebody had mentioned at one point that 12" thick R-19 insulation would be as good as 705. <

I've never packed fluffy fiberglass tightly like that, but in theory it could work as well as 705 if you compress it enough. One problem is it's pretty messy to do that. 705 is cleanly cut, fairly rigid, and it keeps its shape well.

When I've seen people compress the fluffy stuff they usually sandwich it between pieces of chicken wire, which makes the outside ugly and lumpy and difficult to deal with. If you're on a tight budget, the easiest thing to do is buy batts of fluffy fiberglass, leave them tightly packed in the plastic bundles, and simply stack them up in the room corners. It looks like hell, but it works well enough. Or wrap some gift paper around the plastic bags to make them look like really big Xmas presents.

--Ethan

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

..... Or wrap some gift paper around the plastic bags to make them look like really big Xmas presents.

--Ethan

Man, of many talents, Ethan's a comedian too. thumbsup

Oh, and I clicked on redwall's link and it seems you can get a case of 6 2'x4' panels of 2" (with the facing, though) for like $90. That means for under $120 for 6 cheaply made panels... I haven't looked into r-19 prices... but that's pretty cheap.

[Steve Ouimette]

Thank you both for the tip (and Ethan for the humor). I totally see the point about the ugly nature of squashed insulation. Earlier today a call to my local Lowes confirmed that while they don't stock 705 they can order it and it would still come at a discount. I'll see what that price is because even if it's a bit higher than a good deal out of town I can just pick it up here and drive it home.

I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again.

Steve

[Rick Sutton]

The rigid is really the way to go but I have constructed bass traps without it and it can be done quite cheaply....but it usually takes up more cubic footage. Some R19, some celotex, add in some 2x2 framing and stretch some fabric over your creation and you can make an effective and clean looking bass trap. probably all this is covered on the sites mentioned already....just thought I'd chime in and encourage you to give it a go. Good luck.

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by Steve Ouimette

....Earlier today a call to my local Lowes confirmed that while they don't stock 705 they can order it and it would still come at a discount.....

Cool. I asked at Lowe's one time when I was there and the guy just sort of looked at me... then pulled out their owens corning catalog and pointed to everything in there and asked if that was it...

[6strings]

Originally Posted by nathanvacha

Cool. I asked at Lowe's one time when I was there and the guy just sort of looked at me... then pulled out their owens corning catalog and pointed to everything in there and asked if that was it...

Same experience here with every place I tried locally. Eventually ordered the materials online...

[überschall]

What's the difference between 703 and 705? Does anyone know how those materials are called here in Germany?

[David French]

The difference between 703 and 705 is density; 703 is 3 lbs/cu. ft and 705 is 6 lbs/cu. ft. 703 and 705 are trade names for Owens Corning's version of compressed glasswool insulation. In Germany, you will likely have an easier time locating rockwool, which is very much loke glaswool but made from basalt insead. Call an insulatin dealer, anyone you can get ahold of in all of Deutchland, tell them what you're looking for, and they will point you in the right direction.

Best of luck with your search.

[mhartman]

I'm a bit off topic, but Sound on Sound has a cool article about building bass traps in the upcoming issue (available on-line already). If you are building traps, you might want to give it a read.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by mhartman

I'm a bit off topic, but Sound on Sound has a cool article about building bass traps in the upcoming issue (available on-line already). If you are building traps, you might want to give it a read.

Link?

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by überschall

What's the difference between 703 and 705? Does anyone know how those materials are called here in Germany?

David hat recht. Es wird sehr schwer sein, 703 oder 705 in Deutschland zu finden. Bleib bei der Glasfaserewolle.

David is right finding 703 or 705 in Germany is rather hard. Stick with the mineral wool if you can find it.

Glenn

[überschall]

Danke! [thanks]

[Steve Ouimette]

Well, I've done a lot more research and another call to Lowe's confirmed that they can only order it by the truckload, so that's not happening.

In town (Phoenix) there is a place called Southwestern Insulation that carries 705 for 2.38 a square foot, or about $20 a panel. Not totally cheap but there's no shipping. I was hoping it might be a bit less than that considering each trap is going to be 4", so basically $40 per trap for the insulation.

Then again, I can't complain because it could be a lot worse...my room ain't sounding too good right now and it's time to tighten things up.

Steve

BTW, did I mention that it's REALLY HOT out here today? Sheesh, you'd think I was living in the desert or something!

[RedWallStudio]

Are you paying that per-square-foot price for 4" thick or 2" thick 705? If its 4" thick, thats a decent price... SPI is more expensive than that.

[Steve Ouimette]

No, unfortunately it's $2.38 per sq foot on 2" so each panel, so each 2x4x4" will run just under $40. I'm planning on making 8 of them and then more 2" versions for absorption on mids and highs.

Maybe I need to dig around a bit more to find better prices. Stil, I see with shipping it will add a bit to it. Is this a rip off?

Thanks
Steve

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Steve Ouimette

No, unfortunately it's $2.38 per sq foot on 2" so each panel, so each 2x4x4" will run just under $40. I'm planning on making 8 of them and then more 2" versions for absorption on mids and highs.

Maybe I need to dig around a bit more to find better prices. Stil, I see with shipping it will add a bit to it. Is this a rip off?

Thanks
Steve

That price seems really high to me. But then again all this stuff is going up in price.

Glenn

[Nutmeg II.]

For the euro and especialy the german I would advice you to check out the Carouso ISO Bond (compressed PE fiber with 40kg/qm).

[Glenn Kuras]

Do you have a link to that stuff and where to buy it in Germany?

Glenn

[Nutmeg II.]

Originally Posted by myfipie

Do you have a link to that stuff and where to buy it in Germany?

Glenn

I think they only sell direct usualy in bigger amounts (don't try to ask for 6 sheets, ask for 30).
http://www.caruso-ebersdorf.de you will find the phone# and email at the bottom.

Here is some data of the ISO Bond stuff, but you should be able to get more info from them direct. http://www.caruso-ebersdorf.de/techndattext.htm

[Steve Ouimette]

So I did a bit more checking around the country and found that the 6 pound is running about the same price ($2.38 sf) and the faced stuff is even more, up to $3. I've heard that it's just getting really expensive because it's going up along witht prices of home insulation.

Hmm...looks like I might bite the bullet on a smaller amount and see how it goes.

Steve

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Nutmeg II.

I think they only sell direct usualy in bigger amounts (don't try to ask for 6 sheets, ask for 30).
http://www.caruso-ebersdorf.de you will find the phone# and email at the bottom.

Here is some data of the ISO Bond stuff, but you should be able to get more info from them direct. http://www.caruso-ebersdorf.de/techndattext.htm

Thanks for the link I will book mark it.

Glenn