My home studio: weakest link?

[extempore20]

Bump. Anyone?

[guitarboy94]

If you're doing Indie, and from what I hear that's what you're doing based on your clips, I think you're doing a good job. What mic were you using in these clips for vocals? An SM7B would certainly capture warmer, fuller sounding vocals, but then again, Indie vocals tend to sound kind of thin/low-fi intentionally. Dude, you definitely don't need a U87 or an Avalon preamp to make pro recordings.

Wait a minute, are you saying you used an SM7b on these vocals?

[RARStudios]

You. Practice with what you have...

[Bunjji]

Try to get some room treatment. Place bass traps in the corners if you can't glue them.

[extempore20]

Guitarboy - thanks! I am doing indie and used the sm7b for the recordings.

I agree with practicing with what you have... I do have the gear bug. But it seems a good condensor is a long-term investment. Also I don't sing loudly and I'm curious to know what details a condensor will capture.

If I do get a condensor, what do you guys think of the blueberry paired with my dmp3 preamp for my voice? Its a cheap pre but has decent clean gain from reviews I've read.

Thanks again for your input!

[headspin]

Tascam interface?
As far as I know, Tascam stuff is pretty bottom of the barrel. Look into prosumer level conversion. Apogee has a two channel desktop device called the Duet that is very good.
Acoustic treatment is also a fantastic investment. Your mixing is easier and better, and if you record in the same room, your source material will sound better as well.... Build a bunch of traps and a couple gobos to move around where needed during tracking.

[extempore20]

Headspin - you are right its an old and cheap interface. But does that really make a big difference? I'm not well versed on interfaces but it seems they all convert analog to digital and that the quality of this conversion is basically the same but maybe I'm totally wrong?

[extempore20]

Headspin - you are right its an old and cheap interface. But does that really make a big difference? I'm not well versed on interfaces but it seems they all convert analog to digital and that the quality of this conversion is basically the same but maybe I'm totally wrong?

Ill have to educate myself more on traps and gobos...don't know anything about them but I'm sure there a bunch of threads on the topic I can find.

[headspin]

Originally Posted by extempore20

Headspin - you are right its an old and cheap interface. But does that really make a big difference? I'm not well versed on interfaces but it seems they all convert analog to digital and that the quality of this conversion is basically the same but maybe I'm totally wrong?

Ill have to educate myself more on traps and gobos...don't know anything about them but I'm sure there a bunch of threads on the topic I can find.

Yes there's a difference in quality of converters. At least up to a certain point. Something like Apogee will be just fine for your needs.

[npinero1]

U definitely need a better interface, everything else is workable or even better than that.

[RoadToNever]

Originally Posted by extempore20

Ill have to educate myself more on traps and gobos...don't know anything about them but I'm sure there a bunch of threads on the topic I can find.

How about a crash course in room treatment: Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms

[extempore20]

Thanks for the great responses.

Looks like I'll pick up a duet 2 (which I guess will render my dmp-3 irrelevant?) unless there are other suggestions. I will still need the Tascam for midi conversion though.

Thanks for the article on soundproofing. I'll definitely read it. Assuming I can put together some basic soundproofing, any recs for a condensor mic? I hear great things about blueberries and mojave for male vocals. The u87 is out of my budget but I could save up for it theoretically as it seems to be an all utility mic to have and a sure bet.

Or perhaps I should just focus on working with sm7b for now as the difference between that and a good condensor isn't relevant at my level of expertise?

[RoadToNever]

If you go the room treatment route why not get a nice LDC. I'd look at Kel, MXL 2003a, CAD M179, ADK S7.

[extempore20]

I looked up the differences between ldc and sdc mics and the discussions get technical fast. But basically, it seems that sdc mics emphasize transients making them a little better for details and worse for plosives while ldc mics are more open and airy sounding? Ill see if I can audition some different mics to get a better understanding of this..

[extempore20]

Also I'm in a temporary living situation so I'd can't spend a lot of time and energy sound proofing the room. That's why I thought that a mic shield or some other portable setup might suffice? I know this sounds silly but something as simple as a thick blanket draped in a tent shape over my mic? I realize this is a far cry from ideal but until I have a permanent space to invest in I wonder if something creative like this could work. Another thought I had was to create moveable sound proof walls that I can arrange around me and then stack away when done since space is premium in a small nyc apartment...

[i_got_screwed]

Allow me to give every cliche typical GS reply to this type of thread:

1. Focus on room treatment, spend money altering your apartment that you are moving out of in 6 months, because everybody wants to track in a dead sounding room, i haven't heard your room or seen it but i bet it sounds horrible
2. Monitoring - you need $5,000 monitors to record anything
3. You need an SM7
4. You will never be able to record anything without 50 years of experience with legendary talent, you should pay a studio $50,000 to record your demo
5. Its the talent (read: i'm a legend in my own mind) i could make a grammy winning record with a Fischer-Price tapedeck
6. Try different mic placement since i am the only person in the world who knows about that and you probably haven't tried it
7. You don't need more gear, you need more experience
8. You can't record on a PC, it simply can not be done
9. Converters are everything, whatever you are using you need to spend $2,000 more
10. Try a distressor, i don't know what they do but people seem to use them
11. You should have it professionally mixed
12. You should have somebody else master it
13. Reamp the DI'd parts at somebody else's questionable studio
14. Your AKG 414 will never sound good on anything, its an awful mic
15. Neve and API are always the best preamp regardless of what project you are working on which i haven't heard, and whatever you're doing Avalon is horrible for it.
16. Your acoustic guitar which i haven't heard isn't a $4,000 Martin or Taylor and will therefore sound boomy or boxy which doesn't suit my taste so you will never get a good recording with it.
17. Try heavier strings
18. Get closer to the mic because nothing can be recorded further than 2 inches from the mic.
19. Your condenser doesn't cost $3,000 therefore it doesn't work properly or sound good
20. Your songs which i haven't heard aren't good enough

[extempore20]

Originally Posted by i_got_screwed

Allow me to give every cliche typical GS reply to this type of thread:

1. Focus on room treatment, spend money altering your apartment that you are moving out of in 6 months, because everybody wants to track in a dead sounding room, i haven't heard your room or seen it but i bet it sounds horrible
2. Monitoring - you need $5,000 monitors to record anything
3. You need an SM7
4. You will never be able to record anything without 50 years of experience with legendary talent, you should pay a studio $50,000 to record your demo
5. Its the talent (read: i'm a legend in my own mind) i could make a grammy winning record with a Fischer-Price tapedeck
6. Try different mic placement since i am the only person in the world who knows about that and you probably haven't tried it
7. You don't need more gear, you need more experience
8. You can't record on a PC, it simply can not be done
9. Converters are everything, whatever you are using you need to spend $2,000 more
10. Try a distressor, i don't know what they do but people seem to use them
11. You should have it professionally mixed
12. You should have somebody else master it
13. Reamp the DI'd parts at somebody else's questionable studio
14. Your AKG 414 will never sound good on anything, its an awful mic
15. Neve and API are always the best preamp regardless of what project you are working on which i haven't heard, and whatever you're doing Avalon is horrible for it.
16. Your acoustic guitar which i haven't heard isn't a $4,000 Martin or Taylor and will therefore sound boomy or boxy which doesn't suit my taste so you will never get a good recording with it.
17. Try heavier strings
18. Get closer to the mic because nothing can be recorded further than 2 inches from the mic.
19. Your condenser doesn't cost $3,000 therefore it doesn't work properly or sound good
20. Your songs which i haven't heard aren't good enough

Haha, nice.

I will say though, everyone has been very helpful thus far. The only thing people seem to be hesitating on is recommending me a condensor mic...

[Grahamdwc]

Check out the Se2200a if you can some place.
Very good mic for the money.
Extremely happy with mine, I have a few budget/mid-range mics but this is my favorite.

Best,
Graham

[extempore20]

Originally Posted by Grahamdwc

Check out the Se2200a if you can some place.
Very good mic for the money.
Extremely happy with mine, I have a few budget/mid-range mics but this is my favorite.

Best,
Graham

Awesome, I'll check that one out. Read one review that compared it favorably to a U87 with focused listening required to discern the differences (a new stock U87, not the older or modded versions).

[guitarboy94]

honestly, you should be able to get pro recordings with your sm7b on vocals. That's certainly NOT your weakest link. I would upgrade that DMP3, though. It's clean (I used to own it), but I noticed that it always seemed to rob some of my frequencies. Everything I ever recorded with the DMP3 came out thin and brittle sounding. I think there are some issues with the caps in that thing. The GAP PRE73 sounds great with the SM7b. ART PRO MPA II with upgraded tubes is awesome as well, and gives you two channels to work with.

[hutzal]

Originally Posted by extempore20

Thanks for the article on soundproofing......

Just so there's no confusion, we're talking about sound TREATING, not sound proofing, which are two very different things.

[extempore20]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

honestly, you should be able to get pro recordings with your sm7b on vocals. That's certainly NOT your weakest link. I would upgrade that DMP3, though. It's clean (I used to own it), but I noticed that it always seemed to rob some of my frequencies. Everything I ever recorded with the DMP3 came out thin and brittle sounding. I think there are some issues with the caps in that thing. The GAP PRE73 sounds great with the SM7b. ART PRO MPA II with upgraded tubes is awesome as well, and gives you two channels to work with.

Thanks for clarifying. Would the Duet 2 pres not be equivalent to the ones you are recommending?

Also, at this stage, I'd like to upgrade to really professional quality stuff. I don't like buying low/mid-level stuff only to have to replace it in a year or a few years. My logic is that it is worth it to save up for a really awesome pre-amp/mic/etc. that I will keep using for decades rather than accumulating a lot of lesser quality equipment. So with that in mind, would people still recommend the duet 2 for an interface? I'm guessing the recommendations for pre's will change significantly...

[guitarboy94]

I've heard the Duet is very nice, however, I'm not sure if it has enough gain for the SM7b. You might want to check out those specs first. Sm7b needs like 65db of gain. Before you guying buying expensive preamps, I think you first need to ask yourself what sort of sound you're looking for: sparkly clean or warm vintage tones?

[Sir Chris]

i suggest before u drop $3k on a U87 that you audition mics before hand. Just cause it's the most hyped condenser you've ever heard of doesn't mean it's going to sound best on your voice. Case in point?

Smashing Pumpkins went in to record (I believe it was) "mellon collie and the infinite sadness". They blind tested around 10 different mics on Billy Corgan's voice. Everything from $4,000 mics to $100 mics. They all sat in the control and without knowing which mic was which they listened to each one. In the end they narrowed it down to one recording of his voice that they all felt sounded best. When they checked to see what mic it was. It was a $100 SM58. The vocals on that recorded were done with an SM58.

I believe you understand the moral of the story now. That's why a lot of peeps here are hesitant to suggest vocal mics. Which is also why you see "which ever sounds best with your voice" remarks when people ask that question.

[headspin]

The Duet is a great interface. Even if you get additional pres, you'll still want something on the level of Apogee for conversion.

You didn't say what your budget is, but it sounds like you've got money to get some decent kit. Before you get a nice LDC you should get some absorption panels for your music room. Check out GIK Acoustics' stuff.

There's a bunch of great vocal mics between $1k and $2k. Check out stuff from Peluso, Pearlman, Soundelux, Gefell and of course the trusty vintage U87.

Preamp- BAE neve clone? Great River? API?

Research it all. The good thing about buying high quality gear is that even if it doesn't end up working out for you, it holds it's resell value.

[Bunjji]

What about a Neumann TLM 103 for the mic? Or an AKG XLS. Definitely research and try them out first though.

[e3p0]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

I've heard the Duet is very nice, however, I'm not sure if it has enough gain for the SM7b. You might want to check out those specs first. Sm7b needs like 65db of gain. Before you guying buying expensive preamps, I think you first need to ask yourself what sort of sound you're looking for: sparkly clean or warm vintage tones?

I think the Duet has like 70dB of gain. I seem to remember this because when I bought the RME Babyface (60db of gain) I was concerned that it wouldn't work with RE20. I am happy to report the Babyface has plenty of gain for me.

To the O.P., I think you probably have a great start on gear. You may consider another mic for a different flavor, but SM7b is great for what you are doing. Possibly consider another interface, but it is not going to replace trial and error and honing your skillset.

Good luck and enjoy!
-e

[i_got_screwed]

Is that the DeMeter mic pre you have?

Do you have all the plugs you want?

BTW what specs do you have going on your MBP? Curious to know how it is working out.

[retrogradeorbit]

"Also, I live in an untreated apartment."

Room is your weakest link. Build or buy some room treatment. If you build it you can choose fabric that matches the decor of your apartment.

"Also I'm in a temporary living situation so I'd can't spend a lot of time and energy sound proofing the room"

You don't want to sound proof your room. You want to sound treat your room. These are different objectives. You might want to start with corner bass traps, or some large dense fibreglass/rockwool vertical baffles/gobos that you can arrange into an ad-hoc "sound booth" in the room, or use to baffle amps. And then when not in use can stand along a wall.

For what it's worth I'm a renter, so also in 'temporary living situation'. I built my own and made sure they're all moveable and rearrangable. Mine are just big rectangles of a decent thickness (at least 10cm) of very dense rockwool (120kgm-3) with a wooden frame, all wrapped in fabric.

Have a look on the studio building / acoustics forum for more info.