My home studio: weakest link?

[chk23]

Originally Posted by extempore20

Thanks for the great responses.

Looks like I'll pick up a duet 2 (which I guess will render my dmp-3 irrelevant?) unless there are other suggestions. I will still need the Tascam for midi conversion though.

Not necessarily - you can get a cheap Midi to USB adaptor for that.

[extempore20]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

I've heard the Duet is very nice, however, I'm not sure if it has enough gain for the SM7b. You might want to check out those specs first. Sm7b needs like 65db of gain. Before you guying buying expensive preamps, I think you first need to ask yourself what sort of sound you're looking for: sparkly clean or warm vintage tones?

That's an excellent question and I don't have an answer. I guess that's why people have large mic cabinets - to get whatever sound they need when needed. I would like a mic that offers a totally different sound to the SM7B so that's why I was thinking a condensor. I have no basis for comparison, but the SM7B seems to have a warm sound that emphasizes mids and lows (hence why people recommend it for nasally voices).

If anyone has heard the new album by Arrange entitled New Memories, I really like the presence, clarity, and the way it sits forward in the mix. I'm not sure if that's just the way he engineered it, or if it's the mic, but it gives his voice a sense of hushed urgency that I would like to replicate.

i_got_screwed - it's a 2.4 GHz Core Duo (4 GB ram) macbook pro 13" (about 2 years old). It works fairly well. Sometimes it freezes up when I have too many things running in logic. One simple solution is to freeze the tracks you aren't using to free up some computing power. This works well enough though it is a pain in the ass sometimes. I highly recommend getting a large monitor (I have a 27 inch) to supplement the MBP because using the tiny screen is just painful.

I agree w/ trying out mics, but I'm a bit too shy to go into guitar center and have a solo karaoke session! How do you guys try them out? Do you have studio friends who can let you try their mics? My vocal teacher has a bunch of mics so he might be able to let me test them out, but I worry he may want to charge me for the time...

[thehightenor]

Here's my experience -

I bought K&H 0300's yet spend 90% of the time mixing on a £10 pair of Sony SRS88's portable speakers.

I bought a Crane Song HEDD192 yet I'm virtually the only person who can tell the difference between these high end converters and my RME Multiface MK1 when recording single tracks at a time.

I bought many other fancy this and that .... all great BUT not essential.

My biggest single upgrade that really made me (and many others) go WOW .... now it sounds like a record was .... wait for it

Dropping my software bus compressor and buying a Rolls Music Stereo Bus Compressor (RMS755)
all my mixes are done totally ITB except I use this hardware bus compressor on the stereo bus.

If you do just one thing at least demo a decent hardware bus compressor - it will make a huge difference IMHO.

Software wise the other biggie for me was the Slate Digital VCC.

As long as I could have VCC and a hardware bus comp - I'd be set to make a record with whatever else was on offer (within reason of course).

Just a bit of food for thought.

good luck with it all
tht

[guitarboy94]

I own the SM7b as well. It's a terrific mic, but I hear what you're saying. It doesn't have the sheen and detail of a condenser. Sometimes the SM7b just sounds dull and lifeless. Other times, wow, it's just there. I suggest an Audio Technica 4040 to add to your mike locker. Between that and the SM7b, you'll have your bases covered.

Originally Posted by extempore20

That's an excellent question and I don't have an answer. I guess that's why people have large mic cabinets - to get whatever sound they need when needed. I would like a mic that offers a totally different sound to the SM7B so that's why I was thinking a condensor. I have no basis for comparison, but the SM7B seems to have a warm sound that emphasizes mids and lows (hence why people recommend it for nasally voices).

If anyone has heard the new album by Arrange entitled New Memories, I really like the presence, clarity, and the way it sits forward in the mix. I'm not sure if that's just the way he engineered it, or if it's the mic, but it gives his voice a sense of hushed urgency that I would like to replicate.

i_got_screwed - it's a 2.4 GHz Core Duo (4 GB ram) macbook pro 13" (about 2 years old). It works fairly well. Sometimes it freezes up when I have too many things running in logic. One simple solution is to freeze the tracks you aren't using to free up some computing power. This works well enough though it is a pain in the ass sometimes. I highly recommend getting a large monitor (I have a 27 inch) to supplement the MBP because using the tiny screen is just painful.

I agree w/ trying out mics, but I'm a bit too shy to go into guitar center and have a solo karaoke session! How do you guys try them out? Do you have studio friends who can let you try their mics? My vocal teacher has a bunch of mics so he might be able to let me test them out, but I worry he may want to charge me for the time...

[jakson]

Do some research on the SE X1. i read that it beat out a lot of great mics in a blind shootout and if memory serves.. jules was one of the participants. Maybe talk to him about it. And its at a great price.

[e3p0]

Originally Posted by extempore20

My vocal teacher has a bunch of mics so he might be able to let me test them out, but I worry he may want to charge me for the time...

Consider it a rental. A small upfront cost here beats buying (before trying) a mic YOU don't like or doesn't work with YOUR voice. It is much less awkward demoing mics in the comfort of your own home than on a PA at GC or something.
-e

[extempore20]

Originally Posted by thehightenor

Here's my experience -

I bought K&H 0300's yet spend 90% of the time mixing on a £10 pair of Sony SRS88's portable speakers.

I bought a Crane Song HEDD192 yet I'm virtually the only person who can tell the difference between these high end converters and my RME Multiface MK1 when recording single tracks at a time.

I bought many other fancy this and that .... all great BUT not essential.

My biggest single upgrade that really made me (and many others) go WOW .... now it sounds like a record was .... wait for it

Dropping my software bus compressor and buying a Rolls Music Stereo Bus Compressor (RMS755)
all my mixes are done totally ITB except I use this hardware bus compressor on the stereo bus.

If you do just one thing at least demo a decent hardware bus compressor - it will make a huge difference IMHO.

Software wise the other biggie for me was the Slate Digital VCC.

As long as I could have VCC and a hardware bus comp - I'd be set to make a record with whatever else was on offer (within reason of course).

Just a bit of food for thought.

good luck with it all
tht

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I just purchased the Duet 2 and I'm looking forward to trying it. I read a lot of concerning reviews about buggy software so hopefully that won't be an issue.

That's a really interesting suggestion about the compressor and Slate VCC. I think the compressor is out of my budget for the time being but definitely something I will invest in down the road. As for the VCC, do you think it adds something my collection of Waves plugins might not have? The price is quite reasonable for the promise of an analog sound...

It seems the SE X1, NTA1, and AT4040 get mentioned over and over again. They all seem like solid choices. Do you think it's worth waiting to invest in a more expensive mic like a Blueberry or will I not really get that much more bang for the buck? I'm thinking it may be smart to get one of these budget condensor's to start but I just hate having to later upgrade equipment..

Also, I recently suffered a real tragedy which is why it took me so long to respond. I've resolved to record an album for the person I lost, so all of your suggestions will go to this cause and I deeply appreciate them. You will all hopefully contribute to something beautiful.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by extempore20

That's a really interesting suggestion about the compressor and Slate VCC. I think the compressor is out of my budget for the time being but definitely something I will invest in down the road. As for the VCC, do you think it adds something my collection of Waves plugins might not have? The price is quite reasonable for the promise of an analog sound...

If you're after some analog coloration that can't be achieved with other plugins you may also consider Slates VTM - In combination with VCC unbeatable, but if you have to pick only one of them, you might be better off with picking VTM first, because while VCC is really great, the audible effect is rather subtle while using VTM on the single tracks and the master will give you "analog warmth" that makes an clearly audible difference.

Originally Posted by extempore20

Also, I recently suffered a real tragedy which is why it took me so long to respond. I've resolved to record an album for the person I lost, so all of your suggestions will go to this cause and I deeply appreciate them. You will all hopefully contribute to something beautiful.

Oh, that's sad to hear, my condolences! I think to work that into an album is a really great way to cope with your sorrow and will be a very special and personal kind of memorial for the person you lost. (sorry if my words seem inappropriate, it's always hard for non-native speakers express such things in a foreign language)

[extempore20]

Right now I'm leaning toward the SE X1 which appears to get great reviews for such a cheap mic. Anyone with any experience with Michael Joly's modded mics? If his mics really do get close to a U87-quality sound, why isn't this recommended more often?

Thanks for the VTM suggestion and the supportive words. The VTM certainly looks like a good investment...

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Get the x1...good mic. If Blueberry, get the OLD one, not the "assembled in China" version. If I had my choice, it would be the Latvian built Blueberry first, the x1 will work though.

Treat your room as best you possibly can with the money you have.

Get one decent analog compressor for tracking, and bouncing tracks through, 2 bus or not.

I haven't heard that Tascam, but not all Tascam is bad. I'd take their stuff LONG before maudio.

Lots of records done on da-88 back in the day ----see here under recorders:
On Location Recording Studio | Music Recording Equipment NJ

We ran a Tascam MX2424 for a while, and it sounded good. So did the guy in the above link I think. I also used there top line 16 and 24 track analog machines for years as well.

If you feel the interface is holding you back, and want to keep iy small, the new Focusrite Forte is coming soon. Or go bigger and get the Liquid 56.

They are making some very cool stuff nowadays.

Good luck,
john

[siniarch]

extempore20,
I have two Michael Jolly modded mics: NT1a and MXL R144 (ribbon)
I also have an unmodded R144. I can tell you that the difference between the modded MXL R144 and the non-modded one is very apparent. It is subtle, but apparent if that makes sense. I mean it doesn't sound like a totally new microphone with different characteristics, but it definitely picks up the sound better. Clearer, more open if you will. The idea for me is to send the 2nd R144 to Michael for modding so I have a pair, but I don't need a pair just yet.

As for the NT1a, I never heard the original. But what I can say is that it sounds amazing. It's not for every song, but the sound is super clear and precise, while still retaining the warmth of the Sebatron Preamp I run it through. (very nice combination IMHO)

If people are not recommending the modded one is be cause they either haven't heard it, or are not thinking about it at the time. The other thing to consider is that Modded mics will probably lose more value on the used market. I'm guessing people are more weary of buying used and modded for good reasons.

[electricity17]

I've got an Oktavamod NT1, I think it sounds fantastic and it's used on all the vocals I record. I think it's a really strong value, check out the comparison clips on Joly's website and see what you think of the sound quality.

Btw I got the NT1 before I knew much about recording, I was looking for something to make demos with using an Mbox 1 and it was cheap. I don't think it sounded that great, if I go back to some of my old demos, kind of harsh and sibilant. With the mod, I feel like I have a new mic.

[scruffydog]

Get a really good reverb....i like your stuff...but you need spaces.

[extempore20]

The more and more research I do, the more convinced I become that I should just get a U87 (vintage if possible). It seems that with every other mic I could potentially go wrong but that even if the U87 doesn't work out, I can easily sell it... and on clips I've heard, I almost always seem to prefer it. How well do you think it will work with the Duet 2 pre's? Is it totally absurd to use a U87 in an untreated room with something like RealTraps? I just wonder if my SM7B will end up sounding better in this situation which would be a disappointing and a big waste of money.

In my next apartment, I am definitely going to sound treat it so that will be a different story.. but I'm stuck here for a year and I want to make use of this time to record.

Also, how much of a difference do you really think it will make to get a hardware compressor? I find that the Waves compressors are pretty good but then again I have no basis for comparison. Is it really that night and day? Is the same true for EQ's, reverb, etc? Or are compressors the one piece of gear that really make sense to purchase while using software for the rest?

After some more research, I think I may pass on the modded mics. It seems its a good option for those who got a mic they want to upgrade but for buying a new mic the quality of existing new mics seem to be comparable to the modded versions if not better.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by extempore20

Also, how much of a difference do you really think it will make to get a hardware compressor?

It could have a great impact on the way you capture your vocals.

Singing in to a compressor can really change your performance.....at least that is how it is for me. I like to get my voice sounding just right on the way in and compression does that for me......in different ways for different songs.

I just tracked vocals for a very soft acoustic piece and I dialed in my compressor until it was working perfectly in tandem with how I was singing that particular song. Might not even need that RComp in the mix.

[guitarboy94]

A U87 is a luxury, and a very fine mic, but honestly, if you can't get a pro recording with any of these sub 500 dollar microphones you're doing something wrong: Shure sm7b, any of the Kel mics, Stellar CM6 or CM5, Audio Technica 40 series, Shure KSM 27 or 32, most Cad mics, any high end dynamic mic, any modded mic from Oktavamod or JJ Audio, etc, etc, etc. The list of sub 500 dollar mics that can easily deliver pro recordings that compete with the U87 sound is endless these days. I'd try a few of these first before you spend 2K.

Up to you, though.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by extempore20

The more and more research I do, the more convinced I become that I should just get a U87 (vintage if possible). It seems that with every other mic I could potentially go wrong but that even if the U87 doesn't work out, I can easily sell it... and on clips I've heard, I almost always seem to prefer it. How well do you think it will work with the Duet 2 pre's? Is it totally absurd to use a U87 in an untreated room with something like RealTraps? I just wonder if my SM7B will end up sounding better in this situation which would be a disappointing and a big waste of money.

In my next apartment, I am definitely going to sound treat it so that will be a different story.. but I'm stuck here for a year and I want to make use of this time to record.

Also, how much of a difference do you really think it will make to get a hardware compressor? I find that the Waves compressors are pretty good but then again I have no basis for comparison. Is it really that night and day? Is the same true for EQ's, reverb, etc? Or are compressors the one piece of gear that really make sense to purchase while using software for the rest?

I personally think with Compressors and EQs it's mostly a matter of taste (and workflow) if you prefer outboard vs inboard. While no software can replace a good mic pre (or magically turn a cheap mic into a Neumann), compressor and EQ emulation plugs got very close to the originals, although you might get the last 1% only with an outboard device. My advice would be, first invest into outboard Pre and/or Mic, then replace the other gear in the chain later piece by piece, if you really want to go more "outboard analog". I only own a low end outboard compressor, which does it's job, but for the "special analog coloration" I prefer fairchild, LA2A and CLA76 plugin emulations, because I won't be able to afford one of those classics in a while.

I do own a quite high end outboard EQ since lately though, but I mostly end up using plugin EQs, because if you only own ONE outboard EQ it can be become quite an obstacle in your workflow, if you can't "save" settings and have to retune it for every track and project...

[extempore20]

Originally Posted by guitarboy94

A U87 is a luxury, and a very fine mic, but honestly, if you can't get a pro recording with any of these sub 500 dollar microphones you're doing something wrong: Shure sm7b, any of the Kel mics, Stellar CM6 or CM5, Audio Technica 40 series, Shure KSM 27 or 32, most Cad mics, any high end dynamic mic, any modded mic from Oktavamod or JJ Audio, etc, etc, etc. The list of sub 500 dollar mics that can easily deliver pro recordings that compete with the U87 sound is endless these days. I'd try a few of these first before you spend 2K.

Up to you, though.

Thanks for suggestions. I totally see your point... really, the biggest limitation is my own musical abilities and very limited sound engineering experience.

I'm going to swing by GC this week and try a few out. But I'm thinking the Miktek CV4... What do you all think? It gets such rave reviews, and it's not unreasonably priced for a high quality mic. Of course, I have to factor in the cost of the Realtraps and down the road, a good pre but I figure the Duet 2 pre's can probably get the job done for now?

I appreciate the recs for condensors but I think I'm gonna hold off for now. I like the workflow on my DAW and I don't think I'm ready to make the leap into hardware besides a pre/mic/interface. I might get that VTM however which seems to be a nice simple way to get an analog sound...

Also, I've decided to create an EP in the memory of a loved one who recently took her own life. I'm not sure if any of you out there have had an experience such as this, but if you would like to contribute to this project in anyway, please let me know. I'm hoping to get a finished project and to try to raise funds to donate to a suicide foundation.

If you want to contribute through your expertise or in any other way, please contact me. I live in NYC so if you are a musician, I'm always open to collaboration. Just send me a PM.

[extempore20]

So I think I've decided after a ton of research on the Miktek CV4. It's within my budget (kinda) and it seems to be comparable to the best mics out there according to reviews.

It also seems that the Duet 2's pres should be good enough for a mic of this caliber?

Thanks everyone for the help!

[Bunjji]

The Duet's pres won't give you anything extra, but they won't bottleneck your mic either.

[ironman187]

Don't bother with a U87, they are truly wonderful mics, but they won't make you sound better than you do. Buy a decent quality mic and focus on room treatment. You can make some bass traps and acoustic panels out of Owens Corning 703 wrapped in fabric. This is all stuff you can take with you to your next dwelling, and use there as well. The reason people are not suggesting a mic for you is that you haven't posted a budget for your studio, what are you willing to spend on it? You could probably treat your room for about $200.00 and spend whatever you have left on a mic. as for a "vocal booth" a thick moving blanket draped over a mic stand works great!

[Bunjji]

Originally Posted by extempore20

So I think I've decided after a ton of research on the Miktek CV4. It's within my budget (kinda) and it seems to be comparable to the best mics out there according to reviews.

It also seems that the Duet 2's pres should be good enough for a mic of this caliber?

Thanks everyone for the help!

I don't think that a tube mic is a good compliment to the SM7B. They will be different, but still have a similar frequency response. One good option is a stereo pair of AKG C414 XLS microphones. You can find them on ebay new for 1500 from ProAudioStar. They are a little bright, which is nothing like the SM7B. Getting a stereo pair will be good because you can practice stereo micing things and mid side recording and all kinds of stuff.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-C414-XLS...&forceRpt=true