Basstraps

[vls]

Hi!

I need Bass traps for my studio. How do the following ones compare?

t.akustik SA-2 RAS
(http://www.thomann.de/de/the_takusti...llabsorber.htm)

Auralex MegaLERNDS

Realtraps Mondotraps

mbakustik BAB150
(http://ipx20208.ipxserver.de/webseit...arget=shop_pg1)

Which ones are effective and which ones are useless?

Volker

[Cap'n Spanky]

Originally Posted by vls

Hi!

I need Bass traps for my studio. How do the following ones compare?

t.akustik SA-2 RAS
(http://www.thomann.de/de/the_takusti...llabsorber.htm)

Auralex MegaLERNDS

Realtraps Mondotraps

mbakustik BAB150
(http://ipx20208.ipxserver.de/webseit...arget=shop_pg1)

Which ones are effective and which ones are useless?

Volker

I can vouch for the ReaTraps. They made a big difference in my room.

[NesNeedsGear]

Real Traps are prob your best choice.

Ethan's on here, and he's sure to pop up in a few posts.

No ludicrous promises, just results. Easy mounting, great craftsmanship, etc...

I'll let him sell his own product...lol. But Ethan's Real Traps references speak for themselves.

[vls]

Hi!

The only question is: Should i buy the realtraps *now* (would be only 2 mondos or so by price) or buy at first a cheaper solution, and then, in 1 or 2 years, finally treat the whole control room with enough realtraps ? How do the other work, especially thomann?

Volker

[6strings]

Here's a good source of comparative info:

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=534

[vls]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Here's a good source of comparative info:

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=534

Hi! Interesting - so foam absorbers in corner would be a good first treatment? what about wavepanels?

Volker

[SpiderM69]

Realtraps. Don't get foam stuff. I could've gotten more RealTraps with the money I spent on foam and wish I had (although I didn't know about RealTraps at the time).

[Reza]

Don't even consider the foam stuff. Waste of time and money.

Buy once and buy right.

Check these out for great value: www.gikacoustics.com

Rez

[6strings]

Originally Posted by vls

Hi! Interesting - so foam absorbers in corner would be a good first treatment? what about wavepanels?

Volker

Take what you want from the info (and the related links within), but I don't think it says the Mega LENRDs are the best solution, just one of several options.

Even if the data is accurate, it's still way too much money to pay for foam, IMHO.

[Acoustic Cloud]

yes, foamstuffs are a waste of money, generally. I got a bit crazy with the designs, and it looks cool......wow......

The glue that Auralex gives you in the tube, is rebranded liquid nails!

AAGGHH.... as long as your house burns down, before you ever have to remove any of the foam panels, you are ok...

Traps....more effective, and some in your room can be moveable. Just a better deal alltogether.

[6strings]

yes, foamstuffs are a waste of money, generally. I got a bit crazy with the designs, and it looks cool......wow......

I'm thinking of using my extra 2" Auralex panels for decor to cover some of my muslin-covered homemade broadband panels/traps. That cheap fabric makes the place feel like I raided a low-rent hotel room...

[vls]

hi!

has someone got more information about the wavepanels? they look good for a first solution...

Volker

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by 6strings

I'm thinking of using my extra 2" Auralex panels for decor to cover some of my muslin-covered homemade broadband panels/traps. That cheap fabric makes the place feel like I raided a low-rent hotel room...

That is not a bad idea, just keep in mind that it is going to absorb more high end. But if that is what you are looking for then GO FOR IT!!!

Glenn

[vls]

Originally Posted by myfipie

That is not a bad idea, just keep in mind that it is going to absorb more high end. But if that is what you are looking for then GO FOR IT!!!

Glenn

Hmm the main problems are the lows: Will the Corner blocks (300mm x 300mm x 900 mm) or the Big Panels (600 mm x 600 mm x 300 mm) really help nothing in the frequency range under 150 Hz?

Thanks,

Volker

[6strings]

Originally Posted by myfipie

That is not a bad idea, just keep in mind that it is going to absorb more high end. But if that is what you are looking for then GO FOR IT!!!

Glenn

Looking at these numbers:

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Don't they suggest that 4" of rigid insulation already absorbs approx. 100% of the high frequencies anyway? Or am I mis-reading the stats?

Anyway, it's either that or sell the extra panels on eBay... I'm already getting used to the "infant mattress" look of my room's corners.

``````````
Volker, the general concensous online is the best bass traps are thick (4" minimum) panels made of dense material (rigid fiberglass insulation) mounted in the corners of your room. Use enough of these and you may start to tame those low frequencies. Whether you make them yourself or buy amung the various offerings depends on your budget I guess.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Anyway, it's either that or sell the extra panels on eBay... I'm already getting used to the "infant mattress" look of my room's corners.

``````````.

HAHAH!

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Looking at these numbers:

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

Don't they suggest that 4" of rigid insulation already absorbs approx. 100% of the high frequencies anyway? Or am I mis-reading the stats?

Anyway, it's either that or sell the extra panels on eBay... I'm already getting used to the "infant mattress" look of my room's corners.

``````````
Volker, the general concensous online is the best bass traps are thick (4" minimum) panels made of dense material (rigid fiberglass insulation) mounted in the corners of your room. Use enough of these and you may start to tame those low frequencies. Whether you make them yourself or buy amung the various offerings depends on your budget I guess.

You may be right on that and actually the more I think about it you may actually pick up a little more low end with the foam on the front because of the over all thickness. It is hard to say, that is what a test lab is for.


Glenn

[vls]

hmmm... i just visited the gik acoustics site - how can there be an absorption coefficient > 1 ?

Volker

[Glenn Kuras]

Because we are better then 100%.

Just kidding, one big thing is the sides are open so sound is coming in from the sides. This is one of the reasons I tell people not to cover up the sides of the panels when they are DYIing bass traps. It goes deeper then that, but that is one of the biggest reasons on "A" mounting. With "J" mounting the panel is spaced off the wall so sound is coming in from the sides and now the front of the panel is farther from the wall so more low end is being picked up.

Glenn

[vls]

My room:

http://www.programmierung2000.de/songs/improv.jpg
(I already moved the things a bit more to the wall for the 38% rule)

Would 2 or 4 GIK Monsterbasstraps bring a significant differrence in the bass range of the room? [and: what means European Linen (EL) - is this the shipping price to europe (i live in germany)... and: are the stands included?]... one problem is that i couldn't move the two left edge absorbers fully in the wall edge because there is a cabinet (Schrank), like in the drawing - will it also work in the cabinet-wall edge?

Thanks,

Volker

[Glenn Kuras]

>Would 2 or 4 GIK Monsterbasstraps bring a significant differrence in the bass range of the room?<

4 panels is a pretty good start, but I have found most rooms need more like 6 to 8.. BTW, because you are in Germany, shipping of the Monster is reallllllllly high.. I would stick with either the GIK 244 or the Tri Trap. The Tri Trap is nice also because it fits right into the corner and does not take up as much room.

>what means European Linen (EL) - is this the shipping price to europe (i live in germany)... and: are the stands included?]... <

No they do not come with the stand, stands are $48.00 each. European linen is a type of fabric you can get for the panel not shipping.

If you would like you can email me in German and I can have someone write you back in German. One of the owners is from Munich.

Wir können auch gerne in deutsch kommunizieren. Einer der Inhaber von GIK is deutsch.


Glenn

[vls]

Hi!

Do the other traps also have good bass absorption ? And - how much would the shipping to germany cost for the different traps?

Thanks,

Volker

[Glenn Kuras]

Hey,

There is nothing more I love to do is talk about myself, but really for info on all that just email me at glenn.k@gikacoustics.com.

Thanks,

Glenn

[Ethan Winer]

Volker,

> How do the other work, especially thomann? <

I didn't see much in the way of absorption data on that site:

Absorbtionsbereich über 60% bei 80-400Hz

I assume that means more than 60 percent absorption from 80 to 400 Hz? That's not very specific. This does not mean the panels are bad! But a graph showing absorption versus frequency would be much more useful.

> foam absorbers in corner would be a good first treatment? <

Probaby not. This is a big problem with the comparison linked above. It doesn't take into account that better trap designs favor absorption at low frequencies with less absorption at mid and high frequencies. If you're on a tight budget just get some rigid fiberglass or mineral wool and stuff it in as many corners as you can. If that absorbs too much treble you can cover the front with cardboard or heavy paper. But if you're looking for a more professional solution, and a better ratio of absorption versus frequency, the commercial traps from RealTraps and GIK are a better choice.

--Ethan

[vls]

Hi!

When i put 10-12 inch thick glass wool panels in the corners like this:

__________
| . . . . /X/
| . . . /X/
| . . /X/
| . /X/
| /X/
|/X/
|

Would this give a hearable result in bass response? Which distance to the wall (corner <----> panel) should i take? So i think i will do this and then save some money for high quality treatment.

thanks!

Volker

[6strings]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

if you're looking for a more professional solution, and a better ratio of absorption versus frequency, the commercial traps from RealTraps and GIK are a better choice.

I'll add the considerable time investment you'll need to invest for DIY traps. Running around finding all your project materials (mounting hardware!) and figuring out how to do it proper and actually building the traps will cost you plenty of man hours. Not counting the research already conducted (including driving to various spots for supplies), it takes me about 90 minutes per trap to build and hang. With little free time, at this rate I won't have all my treatment up for a few more weeks...

Just some real-life factors to consider for those looking into aquiring acoustic treatment in some form. I certainly would have given more consideration towards purchasing "pro" traps instead of building them myself if I didn't have to buy the materials for an acoustical cloud anyway...

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by vls

Hi!

When i put 10-12 inch thick glass wool panels in the corners like this:

__________
| . . . . /X/
| . . . /X/
| . . /X/
| . /X/
| /X/
|/X/
|

Would this give a hearable result in bass response? Which distance to the wall (corner <----> panel) should i take? So i think i will do this and then save some money for high quality treatment.

thanks!



Volker

If I understand your question right, you really want to use a 2 foot face to the panel. 10-12 inch face, straddled across the corner will help but not enough to help with the lowest low end.....

Glenn

[cramseur]

Originally Posted by 6strings

I'll add the considerable time investment you'll need to invest for DIY traps. Running around finding all your project materials (mounting hardware!) and figuring out how to do it proper and actually building the traps will cost you plenty of man hours. Not counting the research already conducted (including driving to various spots for supplies), it takes me about 90 minutes per trap to build and hang. With little free time, at this rate I won't have all my treatment up for a few more weeks...

Just some real-life factors to consider for those looking into aquiring acoustic treatment in some form. I certainly would have given more consideration towards purchasing "pro" traps instead of building them myself if I didn't have to buy the materials for an acoustical cloud anyway...

Listen to this man. He know what he's talking about. I built 17 different sized traps and absorbers last summer, and can say that the amount of work involved is a consideration. Since Glenn's product wasn't available then, my choice was clear (I couldn't afford Ethan's RealTraps). But now, <sigh> I don't know that I'd build them myself.

I'm glad I did it because I was able to customize better to my irregular space, but I dunno if I'd do it again. Strange, when you get about halfway through you wonder why you ever started this mess in the first place..."what was I thinking"!

[vls]

i just calculated the shipping on the gik page when i'm right it's more than the trap price can someone confirm this? Or have i selected the wrong thing

Volker

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by vls

i just calculated the shipping on the gik page when i'm right it's more than the trap price can someone confirm this? Or have i selected the wrong thing

Volker

Yes shipping to Germany is not cheap at all, but if you would like email me the quanity and I can work it up for you.

Glenn