RME ADI-2 vs. Behringer Ultramatch Pro SRC2496 A/D/A Converter

[ivansc]

I have the earlier non-96 capable behri and it works really well.
Doesnt see much use these days as I bought it mostly for converting AES ABU to spdif and extending spdif optical cables, which I dont need to do much any more.
Good little box for very little money. And if it had been out when I ought I would have bought the 96 version.

If it had been able to speak ADAT digital it would have been the perfect box for my purposes.

Come to think of it, I ought to sell it on and free up a space in my rack.

[silentsky]

Yeah, if I understand correctly, the original Ultramatch SRC2000 model was only a Sample Rate/format converter. The new one (Ultramatch Pro SRC2496) does all of that too, but adds the A/D/A conversion, which is how I'm using it.

[silentsky]

Believe it or not--sold the RME and kept the Behringer.

[jakson]

I love GS for all the great information i can get. However its amazing how many gear snobs there are here. And i only say that because i can imagine how many people would argue the fact that the adi-2 if much better than the behringer stuff. Yet your not hearing a huge difference. Im glad your using your ears and not your mind to make that decision.

[Sir Chris]

I would imagine the real difference between the 2 units would be more apparent in a final mix, not from just tracking an instrument and listening back and making comparisons. Meaning, he should have tracked an entire song with one unit, mixed it. Then, track the same song only using the other unit, mix it and compare it to the first one.

[silentsky]

Originally Posted by Sir Chris

I would imagine the real difference between the 2 units would be more apparent in a final mix, not from just tracking an instrument and listening back and making comparisons. Meaning, he should have tracked an entire song with one unit, mixed it. Then, track the same song only using the other unit, mix it and compare it to the first one.

From a practical standpoint, I couldn't track an entire song with it, since it's only a stereo A/D/A converter--so I couldn't record a full drumkit with it, for example--only two mono, or one stereo source. And I've got plenty of other inputs/converters with my Multiface and Behringer ADA8000, so I'm not strapped for converters.

Also, my listening tests included a wide variety of material--single tracks that were recorded through both units, tracks that were recorded using the Multiface converters, CD's from bands that I like, etc. And I'm telling you, there was virtually no difference. Definitely not enough of a difference to make the one unit worth 5 times the price of the other, and not enough of a difference that I felt like it would actually improve the quality of my mixes.

[silentsky]

Originally Posted by jakson

I love GS for all the great information i can get. However its amazing how many gear snobs there are here. And i only say that because i can imagine how many people would argue the fact that the adi-2 if much better than the behringer stuff. Yet your not hearing a huge difference. Im glad your using your ears and not your mind to make that decision.

Yeah, believe me, for what I paid for it, I WANTED the ADI-2 to be better than the Behringer. But it just didn't sound better (or even different, really) to my ears. So it only made sense to sell it, keep the Behringer, and use the money to buy myself a few new mics that I've been looking at.

[Sir Chris]

Originally Posted by silentsky

From a practical standpoint, I couldn't track an entire song with it, since it's only a stereo A/D/A converter--so I couldn't record a full drumkit with it, for example--only two mono, or one stereo source. And I've got plenty of other inputs/converters with my Multiface and Behringer ADA8000, so I'm not strapped for converters.

Also, my listening tests included a wide variety of material--single tracks that were recorded through both units, tracks that were recorded using the Multiface converters, CD's from bands that I like, etc. And I'm telling you, there was virtually no difference. Definitely not enough of a difference to make the one unit worth 5 times the price of the other, and not enough of a difference that I felt like it would actually improve the quality of my mixes.

Even with 2 inputs you could still do a song. It could have been a singer/song writer type stuff or you could have used a drum program and tracked Gtr, Bass, Vocals, Keys, etc one at a time.

But like I said, You can't make those kinds of comparisons from tracking "a" instrument and comparing the two. You're not going to hear much of a difference that way. But when you begin to compile track after track, that's when the converters become apparent. Especially when you begin to mix.

[sl4zhz]

beside using behringer src2496 for tracking, what can you do with this a/d/a ?
I heard people told me it used for up-sampling, Print, out to studio monitor
can someone explain more about this ?

[silentsky]

Originally Posted by sl4zhz

beside using behringer src2496 for tracking, what can you do with this a/d/a ?
I heard people told me it used for up-sampling, Print, out to studio monitor
can someone explain more about this ?

Yes, you can use the SRC2496 either as an A/D/A or a Sample Rate Converter (in which case you can use it for up-sampling), but not for both at the same time. So to use it as an up-sampler, you would need a separate D/A converter.

To connect everything up, you would take the digital output (S/PDIF, for example) of your recording interface and connect it to the Digital Input of the SRC2496. Set the SRC's "mode" switch to Sample Rate Converter, and set the desired output sampling rate (i.e., 96 kHz). Then, connect the digital output of the SRC to the digital input of the D/A converter.

I haven't tried this myself, but a lot of consumer audiophiles use the SRC in this way (as an up-sampler) and rave about how much better it makes their D/A converters sound.

[silentsky]

Originally Posted by Sir Chris

Even with 2 inputs you could still do a song. It could have been a singer/song writer type stuff or you could have used a drum program and tracked Gtr, Bass, Vocals, Keys, etc one at a time.

But like I said, You can't make those kinds of comparisons from tracking "a" instrument and comparing the two. You're not going to hear much of a difference that way. But when you begin to compile track after track, that's when the converters become apparent. Especially when you begin to mix.

Yes, one could technically track an entire song by doing one or two tracks at a time through the SRC. But I was only trying to make the point that I don't need to. I added the SRC to my setup so I could utilize the S/PDIF connections on my RME Multiface to give me a couple of additional analog ins & outs.

I also understand the logic behind the theory of how inferior converters don't really manifest themselves until you're "stacking" numerous tracks, and then there's a cumulative negative effect. But I suspect the converters would have to be really bad for them to have a significant sonic impact. I think things like the source, room, mic selection, and mic placement have a far greater impact than the converters.

Also, the idea of the negative cumulative effect of stacking tracks really only applies if you're using the SRC as an A/D converter. As a D/A converter, that's really a separate issue. And a large part of my comparison between these units was their effectiveness as a D/A converter--not just an A/D. And again, I didn't just record and listen to "a" instrument and compare. I listened to a wide variety of material.

[SabreChris]

Originally Posted by silentsky

Yes, one could technically track an entire song by doing one or two tracks at a time through the SRC. But I was only trying to make the point that I don't need to. I added the SRC to my setup so I could utilize the S/PDIF connections on my RME Multiface to give me a couple of additional analog ins & outs.

I also understand the logic behind the theory of how inferior converters don't really manifest themselves until you're "stacking" numerous tracks, and then there's a cumulative negative effect. But I suspect the converters would have to be really bad for them to have a significant sonic impact. I think things like the source, room, mic selection, and mic placement have a far greater impact than the converters.

Also, the idea of the negative cumulative effect of stacking tracks really only applies if you're using the SRC as an A/D converter. As a D/A converter, that's really a separate issue. And a large part of my comparison between these units was their effectiveness as a D/A converter--not just an A/D. And again, I didn't just record and listen to "a" instrument and compare. I listened to a wide variety of material.

All the manufacturers source AD DA chips from Cirrus or other chip makers.

High end prosumer chips now have Dynamic Range ~ -115 and are quite inexpensive. These have performance equivalent to what was considered high end just five years ago.

New Audiophile grade converters are more expensive and boast better specs, dr of ~-120. The RME is using this type of chip, but the difference is going to be very subtle at this level of performance. YOu can track great albums with the Behringer.

Obviously circuit design plays a factor as well, but this is not rocket science.

[jakson]

Originally Posted by SabreChris

Obviously circuit design plays a factor as well, but this is not rocket science.

+1
vinyl albums for the 60's and 70's still sound amazing to me. The last thing im gonna worry about is specs on a piece of gear. All i need to know is does it work and will it give me the sound i need. If not, try something else. And if i can save a few bucks in the process than even better. Because who are we kidding.. a true slut never has enough gear

[sl4zhz]

Originally Posted by silentsky

Yes, you can use the SRC2496 either as an A/D/A or a Sample Rate Converter (in which case you can use it for up-sampling), but not for both at the same time. So to use it as an up-sampler, you would need a separate D/A converter.

To connect everything up, you would take the digital output (S/PDIF, for example) of your recording interface and connect it to the Digital Input of the SRC2496. Set the SRC's "mode" switch to Sample Rate Converter, and set the desired output sampling rate (i.e., 96 kHz). Then, connect the digital output of the SRC to the digital input of the D/A converter.

I haven't tried this myself, but a lot of consumer audiophiles use the SRC in this way (as an up-sampler) and rave about how much better it makes their D/A converters sound.

I wondering how significant the difference using DAC as a up-sampler. does anyone every compare it? is it going to make your studio monitor sounds more open compared to normal audio interface?

is the concept the same like when you listening to music with itunes/whatever and you change your audio interface sample rate from 44100 to 96000 ? (lets say focusrite saffire pro 40).

[illacov]

Check this DAC out on Ebay. I have one in my studio hooked up to my RME HDSP 9652.

SMSL DIR9001+AD1955 DAC USB Optical Coaxial for T AMP B | eBay

High quality capacitors, high quality resistors, high quality AD Chip *used in the Lavry DA10 and by Bricasti. Works over USB, SPDIF (optical and coaxial), has a little wallwart PSU, plug and play on MAC and PC.

Opamps are socketed. It ships with a pair of OP275 opamps and a 5532 opamp. Compensation caps are in place already from the factory. Just pop out the opamps and install the ones you want. TOO EASY.

I swapped the 5532 for an OPA2134PA, which cost me 5 bucks. I may swap the OP275 for 2604 opamps at some point.

$120 shipped from NJ. It needs to burn in for a few days with signal running through it and left with power on. After she burns in, WOW.

PS Look up the unit on Headfi.org and the results you get from google.

My negatives? Runs RCA outs @ -10. You have to recalibrate your amp or active monitors to get these to run properly. If you use an active volume controller make sure you use an RCA to TRS cable into the -10 inputs.

Lacks a volume control and metering. For me this is not a full negative because I have RME totalmix which covers metering and volume control (slaved to a control surface via midi).

Now I found a portable one which is USB bus powered and has only a headphone output but the guts are intense. $20 from China. I will test that in a few weeks.

Peace
Illumination