Help me before I waste $500!

[Silent Sound]

If you're recording to cassette tape, then I don't think any noise introduced from the Pre73 should be an issue. I'm sure the SM57 would work fine. The Fathead, maybe/maybe not on a finger-picking guitar. You might need to pick up a Fethead or Cloudlifter since finger-picked guitar can be real quiet and it could be hard to get a ribbon in that close without getting a ton of proximity effect. It's hard to tell without actually testing it out. You've got too variables that are pushing in opposite directions that either one could skew the final results. Tape hiss which will mask some preamp hiss versus a quiet source with a ribbon mic that will cause it to be amplified.

I'd say buy the Pre73 if that's the preamp you want with some money set aside for a Fethead or Cloudlifter should you need it. You may find out you don't. At $100/$150, they're great and relatively cheap solutions to the problem should you wind up experiencing it. In any case, you're not going to find a preamp that does 80dB of ultra clean gain for anywhere near it's price, and with a Fethead/Cloudlifter, it'll work for sure.

My own personal take on it: I wouldn't grab a ribbon mic for a delicate instrument that I was recording to cassette tape. I would be too afraid of loosing too much high frequency information and recording too much hiss. I'd grab condensers and some of my higher quality dynamics for that type of job, but that's just me. There are no rules of course, and maybe you're more concerned with vibe than noise floor.

[jrod9900]

I have a stereo pair of Fathead IIs. I dig em. They can sound really cool on acoustic. Have to be careful because they are really succeptible to the proximity effect, but I use em on rooms a lot to tame down cymbals. They are a bit darker compared to other ribbons, but I still dig em.

JROD

[Strangeland]

The Fathead/Pre73 combo might not be ideal since both are pretty colored. I've had some successes with a Fathead and ISA One for fingerpicked guitar. Although the Fathead is not my favorite for strummed guitar--SDCs usually win out for me in that area. I think Cascade now offers to remove the innermesh before you buy a Fathead. You might want to look into that as it should improve the clarity of the mic.

[pwnies]

Originally Posted by Silent Sound

If you're recording to cassette tape, then I don't think any noise introduced from the Pre73 should be an issue. I'm sure the SM57 would work fine. The Fathead, maybe/maybe not on a finger-picking guitar. You might need to pick up a Fethead or Cloudlifter since finger-picked guitar can be real quiet and it could be hard to get a ribbon in that close without getting a ton of proximity effect. It's hard to tell without actually testing it out. You've got too variables that are pushing in opposite directions that either one could skew the final results. Tape hiss which will mask some preamp hiss versus a quiet source with a ribbon mic that will cause it to be amplified.

I'd say buy the Pre73 if that's the preamp you want with some money set aside for a Fethead or Cloudlifter should you need it. You may find out you don't. At $100/$150, they're great and relatively cheap solutions to the problem should you wind up experiencing it. In any case, you're not going to find a preamp that does 80dB of ultra clean gain for anywhere near it's price, and with a Fethead/Cloudlifter, it'll work for sure.

My own personal take on it: I wouldn't grab a ribbon mic for a delicate instrument that I was recording to cassette tape. I would be too afraid of loosing too much high frequency information and recording too much hiss. I'd grab condensers and some of my higher quality dynamics for that type of job, but that's just me. There are no rules of course, and maybe you're more concerned with vibe than noise floor.

Thanks for writing back. Regarding hi-freq loss, since I am solely recording acoustic guitar and vox, do you think this is still a prevalent issue? My genre of music is sometimes notorious for its DIY-recordings and I don't know if the hi-freq loss will be as damaging.

I (unfortunately) have 2 threads running the main page now due to an old bump, but the other thread told me that the 73 really won't help me chase the sound I want (see: "Lion's Mane" by Iron & Wine) and I'm better off sticking with the 57 and Fathead II and just getting 2 Fethead's boosting my sound. Do you agree with that?

Originally Posted by jrod9900

I have a stereo pair of Fathead IIs. I dig em. They can sound really cool on acoustic. Have to be careful because they are really succeptible to the proximity effect, but I use em on rooms a lot to tame down cymbals. They are a bit darker compared to other ribbons, but I still dig em.

JROD

I've heard great things.

Originally Posted by Strangeland

The Fathead/Pre73 combo might not be ideal since both are pretty colored. I've had some successes with a Fathead and ISA One for fingerpicked guitar. Although the Fathead is not my favorite for strummed guitar--SDCs usually win out for me in that area. I think Cascade now offers to remove the innermesh before you buy a Fathead. You might want to look into that as it should improve the clarity of the mic.

I have a SDC & LDC as well that I was going to try to stereo pair it with. Do you think getting the innermesh removed is crucial? I found a used one for $130 and don't want to spend an extra hundred where it could be elsewhere, unless necessary.

[siniarch]

pwnies,
Let me suggest to get a fethead (or cloudlifter) first. It would cost you about $100. If you can get one local, you can get back to your studio and plug it in and test it out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised as to how much clean gain it will give you.
If you still want the Pre73, you can get it after, as well as the Fathead mic. But take a listen with the fethead from Tritonaudio first. (you have nothing to lose IMHO)

[siniarch]

Oh, just saw you also had a SDC & LDC (which models?) I think putting those up next to your guitar might give you what you are looking for. But in any case, I'd get the fethead (or cloudlifter) for your SM57. Hell, if your interface allows you, I'd get the 3 mics plugged in and record each one to a separate track. This way you can hear the difference between them.

[pwnies]

Originally Posted by siniarch

pwnies,
Let me suggest to get a fethead (or cloudlifter) first. It would cost you about $100. If you can get one local, you can get back to your studio and plug it in and test it out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised as to how much clean gain it will give you.
If you still want the Pre73, you can get it after, as well as the Fathead mic. But take a listen with the fethead from Tritonaudio first. (you have nothing to lose IMHO)

Thanks. So I'm assuming I need 1 fethead per channel, but the Fethead on a M-audio Mobile Pre would be able to drive a ribbon & 57 without hiss? I think my pre has +40 DB. I really only wanted the pre-amp because I thought it would drive things okay and would make things warmer, but it seems I am naive.

[siniarch]

pwnies,

Yes, you need one fethead per channel. Though, the fethead only works on dynamics (like SM57) and ribbons (like the Fathead you are looking at). They do not work with condenser microphones. (so your current SDC and LDC would not benefit from it)

I've never used the M-audio Mobile Pre so I can't tell you regarding it driving the SM57. What I can tell you is that my SM57 sounded much better once I plugged in a fethead to it. I believe the fethead boosts the audio 20db. So you have 40 + 20 = 60. I believe that should be enough. (I also think the Cloudlifter boosts the audio 25db, so maybe that might be better for you for an extra $50. But you'll need one more cable per channel. You could also get the CL-2 which has 2 channels if you were already set on 2)

Also, if you read this from fethead, they specifically talk about their unit benefiting the SM57 & SM58 microphones.
FetHead - tritonaudio

Hope this helps.

[Strangeland]

Originally Posted by pwnies

Do you think getting the innermesh removed is crucial? I found a used one for $130 and don't want to spend an extra hundred where it could be elsewhere, unless necessary.

No, I don't think it's crucial, only something to consider if buying new. Actually, you could probably remove it yourself if you were feeling brave and able. I think the fathead sounds pretty solid stock.

[pwnies]

Originally Posted by siniarch

Oh, just saw you also had a SDC & LDC (which models?) I think putting those up next to your guitar might give you what you are looking for. But in any case, I'd get the fethead (or cloudlifter) for your SM57. Hell, if your interface allows you, I'd get the 3 mics plugged in and record each one to a separate track. This way you can hear the difference between them.

They're just the cheap MXL 990 and 991's I got a couple years back, but have been pretty happy with (needs lots of EQing). Looks like the CL-2 is my best bet to amplify the 57 and Ribbon simultaneously. Unfortunately it looks like my mobilepre won't cut it in terms of impedance. I believe the minimum that the Fathead wants is 1000, and I can't imagine my MobilePre even coming close to that.

[Strangeland]

Also, regarding pairing the ISA One with the Fathead instead of the GAP, you should be aware that the ISA also has variable impedance switching that covers 4 ranges versus the 2-way selector on the GAP. I think I have some clips of the Fathead through the ISA in a finger-picked song. If you want I can upload the raw guitar track tonight when I get home.

[pwnies]

Originally Posted by Strangeland

Also, regarding pairing the ISA One with the Fathead instead of the GAP, you should be aware that the ISA also has variable impedance switching that covers 4 ranges versus the 2-way selector on the GAP. I think I have some clips of the Fathead through the ISA in a finger-picked song. If you want I can upload the raw guitar track tonight when I get home.

I just called Cascade and they recommended the Cloudlifter. Man this is so confusing! Why can't there just be something that drives my mics without requiring all these extra purchases. I would appreciate that upload though very much so.

[pdx]

Don't waste money on mics. Write some songs, stick an SM57 in front, and get on with it.

[Strangeland]

Here's the fathead through ISA One sample. No processing except for the fade in-outs.

[pwnies]

Originally Posted by Strangeland

Here's the fathead through ISA One sample. No processing except for the fade in-outs.

Oh man that sounds beautiful. Just curious, how was the mic placed and what gain did you have to drive that at?

I've decided to stick with a Fethead and get my ribbon. My only worry is that my 48db gain junky mobilepre (which doesn't even list its impedance) will still be super noisy and hissy with the 57 and Fethead (which claims a 20db gain pickup at 1000ohms). Guess I'll return it if that's the case.

[siniarch]

Good Choice Pwnies. The thread after all is called "Help me before I waste $500!"
If you are unsatisfied with the results, then you can return it and get the other stuff, and you won't be left wondering if you spend too much without needing to.

[Strangeland]

I know that I had the mic placed around the neck-body joint, probably closer to the 12th fret. I can't remember the specifics of the settings on the pre, but I'm fairly certain that I didn't have to nail the gain. I generally record pretty low however, trying to max out around -10 or less. I don't have the ISA anymore and I mainly use the fathead for micing amps so gain isn't much of an issue; if anything I have to engage the preamp pad. But 68db of total gain should get you there pretty easily with a good amount to spare. Just try and find the sweet spot between volume and tone.