Black Lion Audio Mod for Liquid Saffire 56

[jkervin]

Has anyone gone for the BLA mod? How's it compare to the original?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[zvukofor]

Do not know about Focusrite, but i suppose there're a lot of cheap awful components inside it, same with all not high-end intefaces. I'm modding some of them, but i'm going deeper than BLA, and i must say that difference between stock and modded is like day and night, even with Digis.

There're a lot of marketing compromises inside - cheapest caps, opamps, unsufficient PSU filtering - all of it must be modded to get real high quality sound. It is one of the differencies of medium and high priced audio interfaces, so basically improving it makes, for example, Profire 2626 sound at the same level as Apogee Ensemble, easily. It is not a doubtable thing, it is engineering fact, which at least can be prooved by unbiased ears, and this was done many times.

[CPhoenix]

Originally Posted by kludge

"Measureable" with "specs" is not a good approach to audio gear. Scientific method wants things as simple and clean as possible, to eliminate variables. But music is inherently messy and variable. Look at THD, everyone's favorite spec when they want to pretend they know what they're talking about. It's measured with a 1khz sine wave. That's like measuring how well a car drives 60mph. MUSIC is made up of ten octaves of frequencies and a 20-60db dynamic range! Measuring "total harmonic distortion" in a way that is meaningful to actual music is nonsense.

A/B testing is a little better, but still not in any way perfect.

Now here's the question... do you think there's an audible difference between budget gear and pro gear? If so, then why? That's probably due to a: circuit differences, and b: parts quality. The mods are addressing both. So it makes sense than they'd show some improvement. Whether the improvement is worth the money is a judgment call, not something that can be measured.

Thank you.


The whole "shows me the specs" arguement is dumb (for lack of a better choice of word)

[jkervin]

Would love to hear someone who's had BLA mod their LS56 chime in

[Lala Land]

Originally Posted by jkervin

Would love to hear someone who's had BLA mod their LS56 chime in

Yeah - anyone got the mod? I'm not over the moon about my LS56 so think I would be a target market for this mod.

[jkervin]

Originally Posted by jkervin

Would love to hear someone who's had BLA mod their LS56 chime in

:D

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[poopynuggeteer]

Yeah I'm very interested in this as well. Maybe someone from BLA can chime in and elaborate a little bit on it.

[Robert(AOS)]

Go to the BLA Facebook page you will find some answers from pro 56 owners. I have a modded 2626 from them and the difference was day and night it's safe to say that it would be the same with the Saffire 56.

[Maldini]

Bumping to see if anyone has had one modded and can give an informed opinion

[jkervin]

I should have mine back next week. Once I've had a chance to check it out I'll reply.

[wearecreative]

Looking forward to your experience here for sure!

[jdbressler]

Can't wait to hear the results as well! Could we get a picture of the insides as well in high-resolution? I am curious to know what op-amps were used.

[jkervin]

Ok so I have a few comments on this. I'm not a pro by any means, I just do this at home so keep that in mind.

There were a couple of issues that I'll mention first. The first is that it took a lot longer for me to get it back than the normal 7 - 10 day turn that they quote. I think that this was because mine was there during NAMM, and also that they had an issue with the clock upgrade which is the other issue. I checked their web site recently and it looks like they're not even offering the clock mod for this anymore. They shipped mine back to me with a microclock MKII - which seems ok. I've been told that this is a better upgrade than I would have gotten with the upgraded internal clock. So be it. I had to go get cables for the clock so I haven't even tried that out yet to see how much difference it makes.

The first thing that I noticed was how much quieter it is. Much less hiss/noise. On the tracks that I was working on, I notice a very big difference in the mid range especially. Mixes sound clearer and have a lot more detail. I'll be doing a lot of tweaking now. I can't comment on how it compares to any high end stuff. It does sound a lot better to me, though - even without the clock.

I'm glad that I did it for sure, just wish that it hadn't taken so long. If the clock makes a huge difference, I'll comment on that too. Part of me thinks that for a little more I could have picked up an Apollo, but for what I've gotten I think it's well worth it.

[Arksun]

Originally Posted by kludge

Look at THD, everyone's favorite spec when they want to pretend they know what they're talking about. It's measured with a 1khz sine wave. That's like measuring how well a car drives 60mph.

To be fair it depends on the company. Some give a THD spec for just 1khz (which I agree is stupid),many give THD A-weighted, then the higher end stuff gives a THD spec based on a sine wave sweep through the entire audible range at near or max volume.

[jkervin]

I wanted to add something because I hooked up the microclock mk2 over the weekend. To my ears, it made a difference. I think made things open up a little, and I seemed to notice more clarity in the low mids (or I'm imagining things). My wife was in the studio with me and I asked her if she could hear a difference when I did some A/B'ing. She said without a doubt.

So yeah overall I'm really happy with this mod. I love the LS56 and to me this just takes it to a new lever.

[Lala Land]

Thanks for your review of the mod JKervin, some invaluable information .. I see thats a nice touch also giving you one of the microclocks, that included making it good value in your case anyway. Just a couple of questions, did they give you a full list of what exactly was changed in the mod? and also how are you finding the clarity of stacked tracks in your mixes? I find overdriven quitars through my LS56 never seem to glue themselves in the mix without a lot of work.



Cheers

Lance

[jholt57]

On one hand (after god knows how many months), we finally have a single, subjective opinion. I wonder how much of this debate could have been quelled by a few before-and-after files on the BLA site. Frankly, it surprises me that they don't simply post them. Not doing so only increases my skepticism.

That said, they have a pretty good rep and anyone who has worked in electronics knows that you can almost always improve something. Consequently, it's not difficult to imagine they have improved the 56

On the other hand, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I've grown weary of chasing unicorns. My LS56 sounds good to me. The pres are quite usable and the I/O options afford all the flexibility I need for what I am currently working on. I don't see the need, speaking strictly for myself, and I am not moved by reading about it, I want to hear the difference (in context).

After 40+ years of playing and recording (much of it professionally), I always ask myself if I am better than a given piece of kit. If the answer is no, I prefer to leave it alone. I've had and used many of the pres the LS emulates. It's no slouch. The stock pres are perfectly handy, too. Certainly worth the $700 (new) I paid for it and it does its job in my "project" studio.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by jkervin

The first thing that I noticed was how much quieter it is. Much less hiss/noise. On the tracks that I was working on, I notice a very big difference in the mid range especially. Mixes sound clearer and have a lot more detail. I'll be doing a lot of tweaking now. I can't comment on how it compares to any high end stuff. It does sound a lot better to me, though - even without the clock.

I'm glad that I did it for sure, just wish that it hadn't taken so long. If the clock makes a huge difference, I'll comment on that too. Part of me thinks that for a little more I could have picked up an Apollo, but for what I've gotten I think it's well worth it.

I think you'd probably hear a bigger difference between the upgraded pre's and a Daking MP1, or an API 512c, or a Neve 1073LB, or an Avedis MA5, than you could with all the upgrades combined that you had done to the Focusrite. If the Focusrite pre's are usable in the first place and the conversion isn't bad, then there's nothing wrong with having them around as utility pre's. I still keep my Mackie 800R around for exactly that reason. However, $575 + shipping would put a pretty big dent in something that you'd find in a professional studio, and you would still have the option of letting go of any component you weren't happy with for about as much as you put into it, without having to go back to square one.

Just my 2¢.

[ejbragg]

If I felt the fire of temptation to ask this company to do a mod on this unit, they pretty much doused it with their plethora of fees. First, let me quote their website on this matter - I'll tag the matters I'm complaining about in red font...
----------------------------
Pricing
Standard Liquid 56 Modification = $575 (+ return shipping)

Contact us to schedule an appointment for your modification.

Return Policy & Warranty
We extend a two-year warranty on all of our work beginning on the date your unit is delivered. *
Should your unit experience any mod-related failure during the warranty period, immediately contact us and we will gladly correct the issue at no charge (excluding shipping).

(Please note: Due to such high demand and because of our tight production schedule, we will charge a cancellation fee (30% of your down payment amount) if you cancel your appointment for modification once it has been scheduled. In the event you do cancel your appointment, please allow 3-4 weeks for your partial-refund to be processed. We do not offer any refunds for cancellations made within two weeks of the original scheduled appointment date.

If you wish to simply reschedule your mod's appointment date, we do require a two-week notice, and there is only a nominal $25 rescheduling fee.)
-------------------------------------------

First of all, anyone who has bought high end equipment knows that technical support is usually head and shoulders above mass-marketed equipment. Although the Liquid Sapphire 56 may be considered a mid-range (pro-sumer) unit, this mod is certainly an attempt to increase the unit's worth, and is likely a hands-on mod. In my estimation, it should count as a "high end" mod.

Asking the consumer to pay for the unit's modification + shipping does make sense, because it cannot be predicted how far away someone lives, and the packages should probably be insured. However, should the unit have problems, which are proven to be caused by said modification, which Black Lion would be responsible for, I see no valid reason to make the consumer pay for the shipping in EITHER direction. I could possibly have my arm twisted if they politely asked me to cover the expenses of shipping it out to them. But if their mod is indeed the problem, I see absolutely no reason to foot the bill for the return shipping, as it is likely going to be a costly inconvenience to me as the user, as it is. And really, they should pay for shipping both ways. If it were my handi-work, I'd gladly eat that cost to save my reputation!

Now this 30% nonrefundable fee... What in the world is THIS all about? Are they really charging $172.50 for cancelling your "appointment" for the mod? I can logically deduce that they will make an order for parts, but as they stated, "Due to such high demand..." they would very likely have another person in-line to use those parts. Furthermore, a $25 rescheduling fee seems another rip-off. If someone has a tight schedule themselves (as we work with clients every day) and a situation may arise where we can't afford not to have a specific piece of gear, then we are penalized by them. This is an insult. If their waiting list is so long to get my gear in there, and there's no such thing as a quick turnaround, then they had better NOT charge me a DIME if I have to reschedule.

And have I mentioned the fact that they are also claiming the right to hold our money for 3-4 weeks, AFTER they've already taken a third of it? What gives?!

C'mon, if we're willing to dish out over half a grand for a modification, we really ought to be getting more professional consideration than this!

[kafka]

Originally Posted by ejbragg

And have I mentioned the fact that they are also claiming the right to hold our money for 3-4 weeks, AFTER they've already taken a third of it? What gives?!

C'mon, if we're willing to dish out over half a grand for a modification, we really ought to be getting more professional consideration than this!

Dude, relax. They're just a bunch of gear modders. There is no reason why anybody on the planet NEEDS a BLA mod of anything. BLA only exists because some people habitually buy the wrong tools to begin with, and then think they're going to get out of that decision for a few hundred bucks.

[Hoegersson]

We also modded some Saffire 56s here in Germany since there was nobody here in the EU doing such mods. It's really worth it. Although BLA seems pricey...
Difference is huge if you know where it's weak spots are and how to modify it

[jkervin]

Originally Posted by Lala Land

Thanks for your review of the mod JKervin, some invaluable information .. I see thats a nice touch also giving you one of the microclocks, that included making it good value in your case anyway. Just a couple of questions, did they give you a full list of what exactly was changed in the mod? and also how are you finding the clarity of stacked tracks in your mixes? I find overdriven quitars through my LS56 never seem to glue themselves in the mix without a lot of work.



Cheers

Lance

So sorry for taking so long to respond. They didn't give me a list of what was changed. I can't comment on stacked guitars before and after as I never really did it before. What I can say is that after the mod I had to go into one of my mixes and tame the distorted guitar tracks as they were really overpowering. I may have overcompensated for what I couldn't hear before. I still haven't really done much stacking but will let you know how it goes.

I'm still very happy that I did this. I had considered buying an Apollo but I'm pretty happy with how this thing is sounding. Also - consider buying and modding can be done for about $1300.

[FilmNMusicman]

I own an MR816csx, NOW, BLA does Mods for these as well...Mine has been used on commercial releases from various artists. No one ever said that the quality of what was recorded was lacking and never had a problem with stacking etc.

Black Lion Audio mods gear for people who are looking for something "MORE" from something they already have. Their mods cost basically the price of if you just researched and purchased the right piece of gear in the 1st place.

I think BLA audio's gear is Legit (Sparrow, B12A etc)!!

Their MODS, with all the FEES is something I wouldn't recommend to anyone.

[richgilb]

They are pretty cool people. If you haven't started an email dialog with them I would. They are quick to respond and very helpful,

I don't remember any of that payment and contractual stuff. It is low priority. I had a Motu. It hissed at high gain. I didn't want to replace it as it is stable. I sent it to them. They modded it and returned it. Now it doesn't hiss on full gain. That and their good email communication is what I remember.

What's not to recommend?

[Lala Land]

I do think the mod is worthwhile but ...

I ended up going with a used HD2 system with a 96 i/o for slightly more than the asking price, I am still using the Focusrite for its preamps and outputs. I really like having the volume knob and headphone outputs on the LS56 to tweak volumes as the 96 i/o is only 16 in 2 out. But the beauty of this system is when I am recording in Ableton, which I use more than Protools, I use the 96 i/o for 16 great A/Ds or inputs from my Preamps including the LS56's pres, and I can use the LS56 for the outputs, head phone monitoring and it works prefectly.
In order to use the the HD Core and accel cards power I do have to use just the 96 i/o in Protools HD, and I know Protools 10HD is as far as I can go with this hardware, but I still can use normal Protools 11 with the LS56.

Running the Focusrite pres out into the 96 i/o inputs IME provides a slightly clearer sound, which in my short experience so far with this setup makes mixing a bit easier.

Just saying this is a great option for some of us, especially us small studio guys, as used HD rigs are going cheap these days, and some people will only use a studio running HD. LS56 is a great unit, and I will keep it on for as long as I need to.

[Lala Land]

Originally Posted by Lala Land

Running the Focusrite pres out into the 96 i/o inputs IME provides a slightly clearer sound, which in my short experience so far with this setup makes mixing a bit easier.

Haha there I said it

[Reverb]

The cost of the mod just doesn't make sense to me. It's really cost prohibitive. I 'd much rather use that kind of money towards a new product.

[FilmNMusicman]

Originally Posted by Reverb

The cost of the mod just doesn't make sense to me. It's really cost prohibitive. I 'd much rather use that kind of money towards a new product.

Yes, this is why I can't recommend the "MODs" plus you're gonna have to deal with downtime in your studio if say your main interface is gone.

At some point we all have to say to yourselves "Enough is enough" get back to making music and stop worrying.

I mean, good lord, a new product comes out every 2 years that claims to be the best thing at this price point ever. I mean, it's kinda fountain of youth mentality.

[Maldini]

Originally Posted by Hoegersson

We also modded some Saffire 56s here in Germany since there was nobody here in the EU doing such mods. It's really worth it. Although BLA seems pricey...
Difference is huge if you know where it's weak spots are and how to modify it

What kind of differences can you hear? LS56 with the mod is getting into Fireface 800/UFX level $$$ it'd want to be a marked difference

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk