Home studio - stumped newbie.

[Kinetic_beats]

Y do u need so many inputs? Aren't u just recording vocals?

[Cool Tool]

Yes, for now, but I suppose I could get by with less.

[Frodebro]

If you're only recording vocals, and you only have one mic, you only need one input.

[Cool Tool]

Okay, I just found out that the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 does have phantom power. It's a cheap interface with few inputs. But, if I'm understanding the impedance bridging thing right, the interface isn't adequate for the mics I'm looking at (output impedance of the Scarlett is < 10 ohms, impedance of the AT4040 for example is 100 ohms). Am I correct? But if I'm going to have a pre-amp between the mic and interface, what effect does it have?

Or should I just forget the interface and get an A-D converter? I'm so lost.

[Rev. Eslam]

Welcome to Gearslutz Tool!

Firstly, if you are a contralto then it seems you sing everything falsetto (in your head like Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees)?

Secondly, an AD (analogue-to-digital) converter is an "interface" - an interface between the analogue world out there and the digital world within the computer. In consumer jargon it is called a "soundcard" and in professional audio it is normally referred to as an "audio interface" but they are essentially one and the same.


I VERY STRONGLY recommend the following for your needs:

For your microphone, assuming that you sing in the chest and not falsetto, the BLUE Bluebird or RODE NT1-A, both of which I own. I've never used the Audio Technica mics but I am sure they are also suitable. If you can afford a tube mic look into one of the RODE valve microphones, which you can easily find secondhand for the same price as a new solid state unit.
The reported "dark" colouration must be due to a defective unit, since mine is far from such.
For your audio interface/soundcard/converter I would not hestitate to run out and grab the Roland OCTA-CAPTURE which has a couple of microphone preamplifiers buit-in plus arguably the most solid drivers on the market. I have used this unit and the older Roland units sold under their EDIROL moniker (ED = education ROL = Roland, or so I was informed).

If the built-in preamps on the Roland are unsatisfactory to your requirements (which admittedly they probably would be) then the Studio Projects VTB -1 or Golden Age preamps would be the way to go. I own a pair of the former. The VTB1 also features a tube circuit which would negate the "need" of a tube microphone.

Let us know what you decide.

[kraku]

I can't recommend any mics - since they're a very subjective thing - but I can recommend you check out RME Audio and MOTU audio interfaces. They have a really nice selection of really usable and affordable audio interfaces that sound great. Many of those interfaces also have one or two mic pres in them, which would get that box check on your wish list.

[Cool Tool]

Thanks for your reply Rev, I'll look at the Rode mics, and that Roland interface. And Kraku, if they're reliable, I'll check them out too.

Can someone explain mic - preamp impedance to me in simple terms? When I try reading explanations I've found through Google, if they don't use a bunch of physics terms to describe it, they use confusing analogies. Some people also seem to use output and input interchangeably. The preamp INPUT should be 10x the ohms (?) of the mic OUTPUT, right?

[kraku]

RME makes one of the most reliable hardware, drivers and software. MOTU is well regarded atleast on the Mac side. No idea how the drivers perform on the PC side.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Rev. Eslam

Welcome to Gearslutz Tool!

Firstly, if you are a contralto then it seems you sing everything falsetto (in your head like Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees)?

Secondly, an AD (analogue-to-digital) converter is an "interface" - an interface between the analogue world out there and the digital world within the computer. In consumer jargon it is called a "soundcard" and in professional audio it is normally referred to as an "audio interface" but they are essentially one and the same.


I VERY STRONGLY recommend the following for your needs:

For your microphone, assuming that you sing in the chest and not falsetto, the BLUE Bluebird or RODE NT1-A, both of which I own. I've never used the Audio Technica mics but I am sure they are also suitable. If you can afford a tube mic look into one of the RODE valve microphones, which you can easily find secondhand for the same price as a new solid state unit.
The reported "dark" colouration must be due to a defective unit, since mine is far from such.
For your audio interface/soundcard/converter I would not hestitate to run out and grad the Roland OCTA-CAPTURE which has a couple of microphone preamplifiers buit-in plus arguably the most solid drivers on the market. I have used this unit and the older Roland units sold under their EDIROL moniker (ED = education ROL = Roland, or so I was informed).

If the built-in preamps on the Roland are unsatisfactory to your requirements (which admittedly they probably would be) then the Studio Projects VTB -1 or Golden Age preamps would be the way to go. I own a pair of the former. The VTB1 also features a tube circuit which would negate the "need" of a tube microphone.

Let us know what you decide.

Is the vtb a true tube or "starved plate" design? Most cheap preamps featuring tubes aren't really "tube" preamps in the classic sense...they run at much lower voltages and are more sales gimmicks than anything.

GAP73 is a much better choice.

RME and even MOTU are likely to be a league above the Roland interface mentioned. Roland/edirol are pretty much consumer level stuff, i would avoid, most interfaces have stable drivers these days. The Focusrite interfaces are pretty good, the mix control software they have is very flexible and they're nice and clean.

Mics? Lots of options, but I'm not really a Rodes fan, particularly their valve mics - there's simply better options for the price. The original NT1 was a class leader in the fact there weren't many cheap condensers at the time, but things have changed.

[Cool Tool]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

The Focusrite interfaces are pretty good, the mix control software they have is very flexible and they're nice and clean.

Glad to hear it. So, could I get away with the simple/cheap Scarlette 2i2, or would I be limited on what mics I could use?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Cool Tool

Glad to hear it. So, could I get away with the simple/cheap Scarlette 2i2, or would I be limited on what mics I could use?

I can only comment on the Pro 24, I have that for my home editing rig.

Assuming the Scarlet 2i2 is as good or better, there'll be plenty of gain for a condenser mic.

Using a dynamic mic on quiet sources, you might find they get a little noisy - but to get more "quiet" pre gain, you'd need to invest serious cash - we're talking 1k+ per channel on something like a Grace pre. My GAP73 also gets a little hissy at this sort of gain levels, so it's nothing to worry about in general use.

[Cool Tool]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

I can only comment on the Pro 24, I have that for my home editing rig.

Assuming the Scarlet 2i2 is as good or better, there'll be plenty of gain for a condenser mic.

Using a dynamic mic on quiet sources, you might find they get a little noisy - but to get more "quiet" pre gain, you'd need to invest serious cash - we're talking 1k+ per channel on something like a Grace pre. My GAP73 also gets a little hissy at this sort of gain levels, so it's nothing to worry about in general use.

Well screw it, I'll just get the 2i2. One less thing to worry about it.

[mattjew24]

Yep grab the Focusrite and demo a few mics...return them if you don't like them...its that simple

[Cool Tool]

It seems Musician's Friend has a pretty reasonable return policy.

I'll go ahead and grab prerequisites; cabling (I hear Mogami gold cables are pretty good?), mic stand, pop filter, and so on.

[kludge]

Don't forget your monitoring! Make sure you have decent speakers (they need not cost a fortune) and a pair of headphones with good isolation for tracking. The classic cheap but decent tracking headphone is the Sennheiser HD280 (around $100). They're loud enough for a drummer, very little leakage, sound okay. For a step up, I use Beyerdynamic DT770, which are accurate enough for some mixing, and very comfortable (and also don't leak sound). No, I haven't compared to everything else on the market.

Your ability to record and mix your music is limited by your ability to HEAR music, hence the importance of monitoring. And don't freak out about room treatment! Just use your nearfield monitors as NEARFIELDS, set them in an equilateral triangle just a few feet from your listening position, keep the volume down to reasonable levels, and a lot of the room problems will go away.

Budget for software too. I don't know what you use for electronics, but if you're in Reason, the latest Reason has audio recording/editing built in. I've produced a full album and a substantial amount of other music entirely in Reason, and it works well. Otherwise, consider Reaper over the alternatives. It's inexpensive and has a terrific workflow.

[chessparov]

IMHO for a neutral-ish LDC, the Studio Projects CS series is "thee bang for the buck" choice (it's not boring BTW). Also has a variety of onboard EQ switching options. It's the first one under $1000, that stacks up well to $1000 to $1500 range LDC's on my voice.
So I'd get a CS before otherwise excellent alternatives, like the AT4050 or MXL 2003A (CR-24 is same model).

Also, the VTB-1 is a nice sounding pre-although I preferred it straight solid state. (works VERY well with ribbons BTW)

Chris

[Cool Tool]

Hey kludge, I've gotten some headphones for monitoring (ATH-M50'S), I still have to choose speakers.

I've heard quite a bit about Reaper and Reason, and would like to try them out. Thank you for the speaker placement tips!

Chris, I was thinking the same thing. Do you find that the mic ensures your voice stands out in the mix? I've seen some complain that the CS5 doesn't give vocals any presence.

[jrod9900]

Hope you realize you're opening a box or worms, or better yet starting a new crack addiction...

I would say to get a good interface with 2-4 built in pres (Apogee Ensembles have great pres, high quality convertors, and sound great used for around $1100).

Good luck,

JROD

[Cool Tool]

I guess it would be better to just buy a higher quality interface with good pres, that way I don't have to worry about running the whole path of mic -> good pre-amp -> cheap interface.

Plus, it saves me the trouble of finding the right pre-amp.

However, I don't own a Mac, so Apogee stuff is out of the question.

[MickeyMassacre]

Get an RME babyface. That was it can grow when you need it, but it already has 2 mic preamps, headphone out and speaker outputs for you.

[Cool Tool]

I'm looking at the MOTU 4Pre, does it have high quality mic pres than the Scarlette 2i2? Or is the higher price mainly due to the USB/FireWire hybrid?

[jrod9900]

Originally Posted by Cool Tool

I'm looking at the MOTU 4Pre, does it have high quality mic pres than the Scarlette 2i2? Or is the higher price mainly due to the USB/FireWire hybrid?

Motu vs Focusrite, that's like saying do I wanna hook up with the fat chick or the ugly chick with pimples. Sucks either way.

JROD

[Cool Tool]

So do you actually have any suggestions besides gear that I stated in the OP that I couldn't use? An interface with a few high quality pres and the other bare necessities?

[jrod9900]

I was just playing. Not a very helpful remark, I know.

To be honest, if you are looking at the $2k range, I would pick up a used Apogee Ensemble. It has 4 great preamps, 8 I/O, lightpipe, and is expandable if you grow.

I had an Ensemble for 2 years, and I loved it. They are firewire, but I never had any issues with speed. And right now, they can be had on the used market for a grand. I just sold mine for like $1150 I think, maybe $1100. It's quite a bargain for what you get. It will last you at least a couple of years with quality conversion and some good preamps to boot.

I started with an Mbox, quickly moved to a 003Rack, and then to the Apogee. In hindsight, I would have started with the Apogee. I wasted a lot of money going the other way. If you are remotely interested in recording and get it, I would highly recommend the Ensemble.

Just my $.02.

JROD

[akn0ledge]

He doesn't have a Mac....

Sent from my Inspire 4G using Gearslutz App

[jrod9900]

Damn. Scratch that.

Or become a convert and never look back...

I talked to BLA about a mod they are doing to the M Audio Octane that they say is phenominal and is their best mod. That'd be very similar in features for about the same price. Could be a possibility.

JROD

[Nizzyo]

Man, if you had a Mac you could just get an apogee duet 2 and call it a day. I just got mine last week, best 638 dollars I've ever spent in my life! Oh come on and let me gloat, it's gearslutz and my girlfriend doesn't understand how awesome it is to own apogee converters!

[Cool Tool]

So now I'm looking at 3 interfaces:

1. RME Babyface. I see this thing recommended everywhere. It has way more channels than I need, but if the pre's are better than the other 2...

2. MOTU 4Pre. Just the right amount of channels, I like the FW/USB hybrid design. Once again, comes down to the pre's.

3. Steinberg UR28M. Good amount of channels, comes with Cubase, which interests me, and the cheapest one on this list.

Basically, which has the best pres? If the Babyface is leagues above the other two, I guess I can stomach the few extra hundred.

Starting to wonder if I should make a new thread just for this issue.

[Nizzyo]

Not sure if it's been recommended yet, but have you looked into the USBPre2? I've heard good things about them...