Input: Audio Technica 3035 -> GAP Pre73 MKII -> MBox mini 3G -> PC (DAW)
Output: PC -> MBox -> KRK RP5G2
I primarily record vocals and guitar. The mic is mounted on a stand with a primacoustic vox shield. I use sony mdr 7506 for recording and AKG k42 mkII for mixing. Im wondering what would be the next best investment to improve the quality of my recordings. Acoustic treatment? Compressor? I have no idea what would be the next move to improve my studio and I know there is a long way to go!
Input: Audio Technica 3035 -> GAP Pre73 MKII -> MBox mini 3G -> PC (DAW)
Output: PC -> MBox -> KRK RP5G2
I primarily record vocals and guitar. The mic is mounted on a stand with a primacoustic vox shield. I use sony mdr 7506 for recording and AKG k42 mkII for mixing. Im wondering what would be the next best investment to improve the quality of my recordings. Acoustic treatment? Compressor? I have no idea what would be the next move to improve my studio and I know there is a long way to go!
First off, that's a GREAT preamp, the GAP. You will get some great tones out of that box.
Second, I'd consider an interface upgrade soon - but that's just me. You will want more, and when that day comes - trust me.
That said, what is your studio setup? What space is it? You may want to consider acoustic panels or bass traps, and / or maybe a new pair of monitors yes. Don't forget how important hearing your own music is, and hearing it accurately.
Interface upgrade wouldnt be a bad idea, but I think you'll hear more of a significant difference with proper room treatment. Recordings come out better, mixes come out better, its a win/win.
Are you happy with your monitors? A lot of people seem to be skeptic towards KRK Rokit series, but if your mixes are translating fine, and you dont feel you're missing anything there, then saving for another interface may be a good move(after treatment of course). Just my two cents.
Thank you so much for all of your replies. My apologies for the tardiness I was not expecting such a prompt response! My primary use is for recording a single vocal or guitar so I don't really need extra channels, would you still recommend an interface upgrade if this is the case? I figured the AD converters and 24bit were adequate...to be honest I just bought the Mbox as an upgrade so I'm feeling a bit embarrassed that this is a possible chokepoint. However I do see what you mean by monitors I do feel like my mixes sound better on them than they do on other systems. I will post a link to a WAV file later tonight of my latest project for your kind deliberation. Also I will post some photos of my room to determine if and where acoustic treatment would be necessary.
If you are happy with how your mixes sound on other stereos in other rooms, then you may not need to treat your room. Some people just compare their mix with mixes they already know sound great everywhere, and so they don't have to trust their room as much. It's not the most fun way to work though, but it can get you by.
I haven't used the interface you have, but I would bet you'd get a more "pro" sound with something like an apogee rossetta 200. I think they can be had for around $1000 used and you can run it via fireware. Then you'll make the most of everything you already have. I don't know that anything else will have an impact on everything. Although, it can be a subtle thing.
But like someone already mentioned, without an example of your work, its hard to say. If you are just using the studio for yourself and you don't intend on going commercial and selling your services, then what about another acoustic guitar? I don't know, I think you're kinda at that point where you're going to start making smaller and smaller incremental differences, so don't worry too much about making sure your money was spent the absolute most effecient way possible. It would be close to impossible to really determine that. But again, IMO, build your studio around a solid foundation, the interface.
I disagree. I say improve the interface, then treat the room. Chicken before the egg?
You can disagree all you want .. But the fundamental tones you get are from the microphones not the conversion. Room treatment>Monitors>Mics> will have a far greater impact on sound than a new interface..
Get your room done... Invest in some nice mics, learn how to use them to their utmost ability. Then think about spending some nice coin on a better interface.
...jesus. GS can be so lame sometimes. John Q Public has not even SEEN or heard your room, and is giving you the stock/generic GS advice of treating your room Just pretty much regurgitating cliche GS advice.
You might not need ANY treatment...maybe you do. We don't know w/out seeing it/hearing it.
Again, I would upgrade GLOBAL things. Things that you use ALL the time on everything. Interface (for your monitoring AND recording), monitors...and then a nice dynamic mic. A dynamic is nice if your room IS bad sounding, cause it will not pick up as much ambience, neighbors, a/c, cars going down the street etc...and sound killer (you won't need a de-esser as much as w/a condenser).
Since this is low-end, I would not suggest a new condenser cause one that would be a big step up from what you have would be $1000 and up...and that still won't work on everything, so you may only use it on some sources...where you use the interface/converters ALL the time. Monitoring through a bottom of the line junk interface (mbox/anything Presonus/Behringer etc) makes it hard to hear and make good eq/mix calls.
I would also go so far as to say that if you don't LOVE your guitar, upgrade that first too (before an expensive mic). A great mic on a cheap guitar just brings out the flaws to the front (like the ugly light at the bar at 2am). A u47 through a Neve on a cheap Takamine will still sound cheap. A Collings or Santa Cruz w/a sm57 through a mackie and even your mbox can sound great.
If you can't hear...then what?
If you were a painter...and you were wearing muddy goggles, wouldn't you want to clear that up before buying new paint/brushes?
In order (considering what you already have)
Monitors
Interface
...then the best guitar you can afford.
Dynamic mic
Once you have that, the rest is gravy.
Good luck man....
PS...I like recording acoustic in a live, untreated room w/reflections! Not a dead, control room
Get another interface and go from there. You will be surprised how big the jump is in sound from a mini to a lets say an LS56> it is the biggest improvement that you can experience in audio, everything else will be incremental going forward. But this will be the big one.
There are many avenues to improve sound with gear, but that mini will never get you there.
"Listen to me, all those other opinions are wrong!"
..
Since this is low-end, I would not suggest a new condenser cause one that would be a big step up from what you have would be $1000 and up...and that still won't work on everything, so you may only use it on some sources...where you use the interface/converters ALL the time.
If you can't hear...then what?
PS...I like recording acoustic in a live, untreated room w/reflections! Not a dead, control room
1) He has an AT3035 - and you're seriously suggesting he can't upgrade to a new condenser in a "big way" without going to the $1000 mark? What outrageous nonsense lol - I can think of at least 3 condenser mics under $1000 that are an upgrade to that mic he currently has, and that's just off the top of my head. Those mics would really make a difference in vox and guitars. and he would be able to instantly hear the improvement of the mics.
2) Recording in a room that has been treated does not mean it's a "dead" room - you assume facts not yet in evidence. Treating a room is about controlling, not killing. I've never set foot in a room that couldn't at least benefit from some form of treatment. There are a lot of ways to treat a room, and not all ways work on every room issue.
3) Converters are very rarely - nay, never - the true bottleneck in a "low end theory" recording chain, especially this day in age. Converters in a $300 Roland / Edirol interface are plenty 'good enough' to make a top 40 radio-friendly hit. I assure you. There are so many other more important things to worry about upgrading than converters at that level. Monitoring setup, room issues, and mic placement are far more important than worrying about converters or a new interface. Only upgrade the interface if you need what an interface really is all about: more I/O. If you don't absolutely need more I/O, spend money on your chain elsewhere.
Those Rokits are just horrible. The VXT's are light years ahead in quality. So are many other monitors out there. That would be money well spent, imo.
Room treatment and monitoring should be considered paramount, and that's certainly the first place I would look to upgrade. It may not be glamorous, but your recordings will be better for it.
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To the OP...why don't you post a picture of your room so we can have a look at it?
Nobody has any idea of what you room is like, but everybody seems to have it figured out that you must be in an empty sheetrock 10x10x10 room...lol! What if he is is working in a room in a castle with velvet curtains that already sounds perfect? It's all speculation...
Treating your room could also mean putting plywood everywhere to make it more LIVE...like they did when they tracked drums for the Black Album.
What we DO know is what gear you have now...so that is all I cared to comment on. Never said room-treatment is a bad idea! I built some sweet traps for my place out of 703...got some GIK traps in the corners. But, some rooms don't need ANY treatment. We can only guess what you room is like so unless we see it (or better yet HEAR it), it's kind of pointless to make suggestions. If we see a pic, maybe we could get a better idea.
What kind of guitar do you play? That matters WAY more than ANY of the recording gear.
Good luck man...and post a sound clip too so we can help you more.
PS...for "low end" stuff...recording in homes...it's great to experiment recording in different rooms. I like my living room for acoustic guitar (hard wood floors, live...no treatment)...sometimes a closet for pseudo vocal booth...sometimes my control room (that is treated).
As promised here is a sample of my latest work. this was recorded with the at3035 and gappre73 and mixed through my rokits. the interface used was a mobile pre usb and not the mbox which I just purchased. I will begin re-tracking with the mbox soon after I figure out if I should keep it or save the money for a better interface as many of you have suggested. I'm also in the process of cleaning my room so I can take a picture.
Also after reading the advice I would like to know what mics under $1000 you would recommend to improve my sound. I am convinced the VXTs will be my next upgrade for monitors after your suggestions, and I wholly agree better mixing leads to a higher end-product, ergo the muddy goggles analogy turk sanchez has employed. Room treatment as always been a mystery to me, I have been doing my reading on phase, waves etc. so I hope to catch up soon enough.
Nice tune, Man. Sort of a male Tracy Chapman or something...
I thought you were doing acoustic?
I think you may just need to polish off your technique more than any new gear, honestly. Recording sound pretty good...not bad. Sounds like you might be clipping the low end on some of those kicks...the vocals sounds a little crispy, but not bad. I would like to hear your voice on a dynamic mic instead of a condenser.
For home recording, condensers I have owned are Gefell umt70s (was nice), Soundelux u195, Blue Dragonfly, Audio Technica 4047 and 4050...but have used lots others at work.
I wasn't stoked about any of them on vocals. I don't just record myself BTW...made my living as engineer (no side job) for 11 years.
I LOVED the u195 on kick drum...umt70 was prob the best all-rounder. But these are all more pricey than low-end.
I am happier w/the sm7, re20, Audix i5 of all things (don't slag it off cause it's cheap) EV re16 etc on vocals. You get less of a crispy high end (less de-essing in the mix) and you won't pick up the AC, trucks, neighbors etc...
I have used all those mics w/Avedis ma5, Pacifica, Great River, API, Brent Averill, Classic API pres...Purple mc77 comp, UA 1176, Distressor, Action comp, hairball 1176 kit etc...
There is no magic bullet gear. It's mostly over-rated...like thinking you'll be Jimmy Page if you just throw money at a Les Paul.
Do you have any other mics? I would get a 57 or i5 for sure if you don't have one. The guitar sounds a little muddy. Maybe pull the mic back a bit...or try an ev635a (has rolled off lows).
I think maybe an re20 for your voice...but you would have to experiment to know for sure.
You could get more detail going in w/better converters. Never tried the GAP. Cheap converters sound cloudy to me...like a blanket over the speakers.
Save your cash...get a dynamic or two...and keep practicing. Upgrade the interface to a Duet. Check out some monitors and see what you like. I like small monitors in homes. For my home set-up, I am running Focal cms40 and am very happy w/them. If you mix at low volume, almost no room treatment needed w/these. if you get big 'ol speakers w/huge bass, yeah...you are gonna have low-end problems if you are in a bedroom(?)
In a nutshell...less bass on your guitar (you could also just HPF in the mix...you should be anyway for GTRS). And a smoother, less harsh in the high-mids vocal mic...or better mic placement.
My 2 cents.
I just don't like LDC's that much on vocals till you get up to the sweet stuff...like a Manley or something. High end. And the dynamic are still on the same level w/that...sometimes beating it.
PS...one Lady I did a record for, the sm57 blew away everything else on her voice. BLEW them all away. sm57 into a pacifica and a rosetta 200...sounded amazing. Had the umt70 sitting on the sidelines while we cut vocals w/the 57! Trust your ears.
There is no ldc as nice as that gefell umt70s under a grand!
If the guitar sounds good in your monitors, then change your monitors it really sound like a classic krk rp5 mix(lots of mids and bad sounding general sound), your vocals have clarity but not you guitar and the drums are quite bad mixed, you should get more an open sound.
How are you mic ing the guitar? it doesnt sound like an acoustic or nylon one where are you placing the mic? The problem, starts there, the vocals sounds ok.
I had Rockit 1st version rp5, and i loved them, but when i bought my focals, i realized how bad i really sounded.What sounded good to me in the krks, many times sounds awful in my focals, and with the focals i had lower volume, but a lot of more definition and bass, at least what sounds bad is heard perfectly so, fixing it is easier, your mixes then sound better. If you hear it and have a little training, you can get quickly what is harming your mix, correcting sometimes might be EQ, emphatize or decrease something which seems odd. You cant fix what you cant hear, or you cant fix what it sounds excelent and bad sounding in other places.
But the room is important, in my first home studio, my focals have some blurry frecuencys, and everything i recorded sounded bad in that area(500-2000hz) and really hyped low bass, so my mixes were bass lacking and the vocals werent clear.
In my new room the acoustic is better, i still have to move them further away, i have them at 60cms only of distance, and i want them to be at 1.5m at least(i am about building my new desktop). I have some hype in some frecuecies, but i dont hear nulls in 70hz+ frecuencys, i havent measured it in the right way, but the peaks sound awful, like you add some reverb in that frecuency and lose intelligibility some times.
And of course.. try to have your room as silent as possible, any noise, withing 60dbs will harm the sound you are recording, losing clarity. I have to tune up my pc so i get the noise lower and add a second door to reduce noise coming from outside.
Any reverb added in your room, will generally be harmfull, you can clap, and watch with an analyzer how much time the clap takes to fadeaway 60dbs. Dont kill it, but get it to the right amount, you will later add some which will sound better and open, or add some omni mics in the room if you like your reverb.
I bought a Mojave MA201 fet, which sounds amazing, but its not at good for all mic, female vocals dont sound that great for example(but male vocals sound excelent), and bad pres(like my scarlet, dont get the full sound it has), anyways you have some good ones.
With good monitors, you can make good decision to make bad sounding instruments to have its place in the mix, it is important, so monitors are really important. Rockit are fatiguing monitors, focals for example are pleasent monitores, i dont get ear fatigue, when i got the volume up with krks, i was somewhat dizzy and with some headache. Focals can mix perfectly with low and high SPL and get great results without fatigue.
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it really sound like a classic krk rp5 mix(lots of mids and bad sounding general sound), your vocals have clarity but not you guitar and the drums are quite bad mixed, you should get more an open sound.
