"Newbie" -- Could really use some solid (gear) advice.
Hello all,
This is my first post here. I could really use some solid advice on constructing a "quality," versatile, and somewhat portable recording rig for under $3k. I've already made the choice-- despite mixed feedback here-- to go with the MBox 3 Pro, so it would be nice to skip over the inevitable Avid/Digi debate. I've already read all of those opinions (most of which are on this site), and decided to go with it because I got the unit new for $500 w/Pro Tools 10. Can't argue with that price, and it's clearly not "junk."
Please also understand: I don't know recording gear the way some (or most) of you do here. There's nothing more off-putting than folks trying to discourage people from pursuing something they enjoy by way of belittling. I'm here for help. That being said, I'm hoping to assemble something along these lines:
*Additional 8x interface I can pair with Mbox for more tracks (via aggregate device); there are so many, really don't know what the best bang for my buck is? Tascam US-1800? FastTrack 8? Something with 8 XLR ins, for $500ish
*8x preamp w/8 XLR ins, just as a simple, all-purpose preamp for the above unit, maybe Focusrite OctoPre MkII? Presonus Digimax D8? - $500ish
*4x preamp w/4 XLR ins to pair up with the 4 XLR ins on Mbox, slightly higher quality - $500ish
*A great, all-purpose instrument microphone, mostly for acoustic guitar and nylon string guitar, but ideally something well-rounded for misc. use. I have piles of mics, from Audix/AKG drum mics, Shure 58/57's, Electrovoice, etc. for experimentation, but would be nice to have a really solid go-to here for the important stuff. I used to have an AKG C414 TL-II years ago, and a SolidTube-- both were somewhat versatile, but not the best for guitars/strings - $500ish - I've seen a few Neumann KM 184's around that range used...
*A great, all-purpose vocal (maybe tube) mic, that could double as another "all purpose" item? - $500ish - Been told the Neumann TLM103 is a great, all-around mic for vox and other applications, and I've seen a few for about $600 used.
As hinted above, I'm 100% OK with used items, so please keep that in mind when you consider price on preamps, mics, etc.-- I'll shop around and find the right deal, so if there's a preamp that's $900-$1000 new that would be perfect, and I can get it for $600 used, I'm in.
Anyway, this is long so I'll end it here. Hope you can chime in and help! Again, my budget is limited, so I understand that the mega-awesome-killer-uber-ultimate preamp you got for $5,632 will outshine something I can wrangle up for $500. Low end theory!
Thanks! Here's an interesting development: just found a Mojave MA-200 used for $700. Because I'll never be recording "important" tracks more than one at a time (i.e., guitar will be sep. from vocals, etc.), what if I were to just get something like this? Reading reviews on this site, sounds like it's great for both acoustic instruments and vocals, and even as overheads (should I buy a second one down the line), not to mention I might be able to just get by with this mic for now (along with my misc. mics). Thoughts?
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something here, but why are you buying extra pre-amps to run in through your mbox/second interface?
The mbox already has 4 pre-amps build in on the XLR inputs and for a cheap/portable recording setup, these would be fine.
In the same way, extra interfaces like the Tascam 1800/FastTrack (Check out the Saffire Pro 40 by Focusrite too!) already have 8 pre-amps build into them, so adding more to this is really pointless unless you're buying high-end single channel preamps.
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding something here, but why are you buying extra pre-amps to run in through your mbox/second interface?
The mbox already has 4 pre-amps build in on the XLR inputs and for a cheap/portable recording setup, these would be fine.
In the same way, extra interfaces like the Tascam 1800/FastTrack (Check out the Saffire Pro 40 by Focusrite too!) already have 8 pre-amps build into them, so adding more to this is really pointless unless you're buying high-end single channel preamps.
Agreed.
And I don't see the OP mentioning anything about monitors either. That would be important.
Thanks for the feedback. I was under the impression that the preamps in those units were essentially worthless-- not that a $500 unit is going to be a vast upgrade, but would it put me in a better position if I'm going to grab a nicer mic or two? OR, maybe I just get one nice 2-channel preamp in the $1000 (used) range instead? And then just use the built-in preamps for less important tracking? Again, total newbie so this is all very valuable feedback. If I go with a single, nicer preamp, the same question stands: a nice, well-rounded and versatile unit? Any ideas?
Regarding monitors, I forgot to mention: I have a friend willing to sell his Yamaha HS80M pair and sub for $300 all in, so I think I'll just go with those (again, can't beat the price).
The pre-amps in those units are FAR from worthless.
Honestly, you can get a perfectly professional recording with the stock preamps in those units. You're likely to hear more of a difference from microphone choice/placement and mixing decisions than you will with different preamps.
You're idea about having a nice 2-channel preamp would be good - You only really need multiple inputs with drums so if you had a nicer preamp, you could run all the important things (vocals, guitar bass etc) through this.
The ISA One by Focusrite is a great preamp IMO. While it's not the most 'coloured' preamp out there, it gives a very high quality and polished sound. If you get the digital version, you also get the bonus of using the ISA A/D conversion which can then be sent to an interface via ADAT or S/PDIF and this would definitely be an improvement over the standard setup.
You need one good "money" channel. Might I recommend a Zen Pro modded Gap 73 with a ksm 32. Then a nice matched pair of ribbons for stereo through your interface. One shot yourself to death with this rig.
That's good to know that the Mbox preamps are strong enough on their own. I'll definitely try to look into one nice 2-channel pre for the crucial stuff. One thing I haven't heard anything on:
*A "fair" 8x interface I can use in tandem with the Mbox to get more channels/inputs (for $500ish, used)
*Also, think I should pick up that Mojave MA-200? $700 seems like a killer deal and a pretty well-rounded instrument and vocal mic. Eventually I'd just grab a second one (I know they wouldn't be matched) so I could run it through the second channel of the nicer pre I grab..
*A "fair" 8x interface I can use in tandem with the Mbox to get more channels/inputs (for $500ish, used)
You're talking about buying just two mics so I'm confused as to why you'd need an 8x pre. As someone mentioned, since you're doing things one track at a time (i.e. guitars, then vocals, then...), an 8x pre would really only come into play if you were recording drum tracks and you had the mics to make that work well.
You need one good "money" channel. Might I recommend a Zen Pro modded Gap 73 with a ksm 32. Then a nice matched pair of ribbons for stereo through your interface. One shot yourself to death with this rig.
This makes sense. Get a nice mic, 1 external pre. Learn the difference in sound between the mbox pre and the external pre. Who knows, you might end up really liking the mbox pres.
IMO, learn gear in smaller steps. But then, having a bunch of cool stuff is cool.
I say start with the saffire pro 40. It's 8 channels with 8 pre,s for 400 and it's able to be connected to 1 other pro 40 and each pro 40 can handle 2 octa pre mkii dyn. That's 8 x 6 channels and both are great deals. The octa also comes with compression on every channel. I started with the mbox pro and eventually sold it. I know have 2 pro 40's and 2 octa pres. Great power house.
Also your gonna need at least one good work horse of a preamp. I suggest the universal audio LA-610 mkii. For less than 2k it's got an amazing sound and has a t4 compressor. If you can spend a little more and get the Avolon vt 737sp. In the long run its a great investment.
This thread is confusing. You're a newbie, but you're talking about hooking up interfaces, expansions, multiple preamps and using your 'piles of mics'.
Newbies need to learn how to track and mix first. Can you? If not, start small learn, then grow.
Depending on what you are trying to accomplish dictates the gear you buy. Are you tracking drums? Entire bands? Will you be integrating vsts into your tracks? Work out how many channels you need at the moment. If you're recording drums you'll need more channels. If not, or you're recording electronic drums over MIDI, fewer channels will probably suffice.
I'm suspecting that the mbox3 or an 8 channel usb along with your friends monitors will be fine for now. Get some room treatment, or at least a duvet and portable vocal booth. Once you get good results with this, you'll know what needs to be upgraded and can ask more pointed questions about that at the time.
Also your gonna need at least one good work horse of a preamp. I suggest the universal audio LA-610 mkii. For less than 2k it's got an amazing sound and has a t4 compressor. If you can spend a little more and get the Avolon vt 737sp. In the long run its a great investment.
Uhh,... I'm not going to start a fight here but...the LA 610 MK2 is far from "amazing". I kept one for all of 2 days once. Sold it quickly. Now the latter part of your advice is solid with a capital S. The 737 will put you in the big leagues quick. You can pick them up all day used on Ebay for around $1300. I'd recommend buying as many as you can afford.
Why no monitors on your list? Not gonna mix? I mean, I'm cool with that ...but, every decision you make in a studio can only be as good as you can hear it.
Why no monitors on your list? Not gonna mix? I mean, I'm cool with that ...but, every decision you make in a studio can only be as good as you can hear it.
Quote:
Regarding monitors, I forgot to mention: I have a friend willing to sell his Yamaha HS80M pair and sub for $300 all in, so I think I'll just go with those (again, can't beat the price).
Uhh,... I'm not going to start a fight here but...the LA 610 MK2 is far from "amazing". I kept one for all of 2 days once. Sold it quickly. Now the latter part of your advice is solid with a capital S. The 737 will put you in the big leagues quick. You can pick them up all day used on Ebay for around $1300. I'd recommend buying as many as you can afford.
Asa Lama Lakum
And this is where personal preference comes in. Some people like different things. I have two avalons and one la 610. Depending on what I'm doing is the considering factor for what I'm using. I like the la 610 for a great bass sound and when I'm doing my final mix I'll compress it through the Avalon 737. Research and come up with your own likes and dislikes.
First, THANK YOU all for the posts. This is outstanding, despite comments like:
"I think you're very much trying to kill two birds with one stone OP, yet you've managed to miss both birds by a fair margin. You even missed the barn door."
(which offer no indication of where said "barn door" is...hmm, precisely why I'm here, folks!)
The "piles" of mics I have: Audix drum mics (D1's, D2's, and D4's), AKG D112, several 57's and 58's (and a few other Shure's I can't recall), a bunch of junk/vintage EV mics, and about 10 others. They were all acquired over the years for various purposes, some of which I sold later (C414 TL-II and SolidTube I no longer have).
I should clarify-- "newbie" is a broad term. I've been a recording and touring musician for the better part of my life, and have always "dabbled" in crappy home recording, more just for the purpose of documenting musical ideas, not to create quality recordings. I've had many different setups, most of which have just been various "all in one" deals, like the VS2480. I've also been fortunate enough to have recorded in some truly AMAZING studios (Bay 7, Blacklodge, etc.), but looking back: never really took notice of what gear was being used, how it was being put to use, etc. I regret that much! Now I'm hoping to actually put together some "higher" quality recordings for the budget at hand, and the gear I've already got. And I'd really LOVE to make more strategic buys this time, not something that's going to plummet in value; and something I'll more likely just keep as I grow my gear pile. I say "newbie" because compared to all you badasses, I'm just getting started.
I should have clarified: I would like to be able to record drums as well, which is why I'd like to find an 8x pre and 8x interface to add to my 4 inputs via Mbox. Because my mic and preamp options (based on budget) aren't going to be stellar, I figured a simple 8x pre with comp might be a solid choice to get me started, and eventually (one by one) replace the channels with nicer pre's as cash becomes available.
Yes, I'll be mixing, and have already stated that I've got a set of Yamaha HS80M's w/sub.
*ProTools Mbox 3 Pro (w/PT10) (paid $500 total, great deal)
*Yamaha HS80M's + Sub ($300 buddy-deal)
*Golden Age Pre-73 Mkii (got for $300)
*Grace Audio M101 (just got a killer deal, $350)
*Mojave MA-200 mic (talked down to $650)
*8x Interface ___________
*8x Pre ___________ (might not even bother if the pre's are ok in interface)
*Might get a second nicer mic ________ maybe AKG C414 XLII?
*I have a good set of plugins-- Waves Diamond, AutoTune, etc., so that will come in handy in lieu of certain hardware shortages
So not including the computer, older mics, cables, etc., I've paid $2100 so far. I could probably swing another $1500 for now...
While I am probably further down the scale than you are (just bought my first "higher end" mic, a blue spark) I can chime in on the Tascam US-1800. I have been running the US-1644 for a bit over a year and a half (got it on sale for $200 when they were getting rid of them to make room for the 1800's) and I have never had a hickup with it (appart from some driver conflicts on my laptop, but it's windows xp, that's par for the course). It has 8 mic preamps, six line inputs and two digital channels. As an extention for more channels, it should be perfect. Though I am going to echo some of the others in saying get one or two really good pre-amps and use them into the line in on the Mbox or the Tascam for the important tracks.
The only thing to double check would be that the tascam will work with pro-tools. I see no reason why it wouldn't but I have heard pro-tools is picky? That may just be older versions though.
A Steinberg MR816 or UR824 could be worth considering over the other interfaces you mention.
These have some of the best pres you will find in an interface at this budget and an Octopre or Presonus wouldn't be any upgrade to speak of so you can save by forgoing the 8 ch pre.
I really like the saffire pro 40. It's got 8 inputs with 8 pre's I think are modeled after the focuserite red or blue pre (awesome pre's) and they are expandable to 48 inputs by adding focusrite octopre mkii. (or spend a bit more for the dynamic and get compressors on every channel) you can add 2 octopre's to each saffire and chain 2 saffires together via spdif. (an external clock is required for more than 3 units) I don't know if it can link to the mbox. It has 2 FireWire slots and you have to plug the second saffire in via the first saffires 2nd fire wire slot. Perhaps this can work with the mbox also. I really can't say enough about this setup. And the price is reasonable for any budget with high quality results.
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...but, every decision you make in a studio can only be as good as you can hear it.
