Which headphones for rock guitar mic placement?

[Little David]

Direct Sound Headphones EX-29 Extreme Isolation Stereo EX-29 B&H

$120 and have great isolation. They aren't amazingly hi-fi but it's *much* more important to have great isolation, heavy bleed affects what you're hearing much more than relatively minute differences in freq response imo.

[sniperschool]

The Extremes are good but I think the Vic Firths offer even more isolation

[Mazrak]

I've seen both of these headphones mentioned before. How's the sound? I'm trying to escape that honking quality that I've found in many headphones.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

The Firths don't sound good, but at $50 a pair, who cares? The isolation is great, if that is what you are after.

You cannot place microphones using headphones, unless the headphones duplicate the sound of your monitoring system. Not likely. It is still a hunt and peck situation. But there are some pretty standard starting points that require a small amount of tweaking once set, and that can be done with one or two trips through the door. (Like, Michael Wagener sets a ribbon mic perpendicular to the cabinet front, one inch from the grille and dead center on the dust cap. He uses 2 mics on two speakers. I typically put a mic at an angle closely matching the slant of the cone, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the distance from the edge of the speaker cone, about an inch or two from the grille. For metal, Micheal is the Guitar Recording God. It doesn't take much adjusting to find the perfect spot using either of these two methods.)

In your situation, if this is how you want to do it, guitars do not go very high or very low, and that is where headphone start to get costly. So buy something with some isolation (not noise cancellation) and learn how they sound, learn to use them to do what you need to do. The Firths are probably a good choice.

[Mazrak]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

The Firths don't sound good, but at $50 a pair, who cares? The isolation is great, if that is what you are after.

You cannot place microphones using headphones, unless the headphones duplicate the sound of your monitoring system. Not likely. It is still a hunt and peck situation. But there are some pretty standard starting points that require a small amount of tweaking once set, and that can be done with one or two trips through the door. (Like, Michael Wagener sets a ribbon mic perpendicular to the cabinet front, one inch from the grille and dead center on the dust cap. He uses 2 mics on two speakers. I typically put a mic at an angle closely matching the slant of the cone, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the distance from the edge of the speaker cone, about an inch or two from the grille. For metal, Micheal is the Guitar Recording God. It doesn't take much adjusting to find the perfect spot using either of these two methods.)

In your situation, if this is how you want to do it, guitars do not go very high or very low, and that is where headphone start to get costly. So buy something with some isolation (not noise cancellation) and learn how they sound, learn to use them to do what you need to do. The Firths are probably a good choice.

Unfortunately, I have to record cabinets in the same room I monitor (bedroom musician), so I need isolated headphones to get a decent judgement on the mic position, because I can't accurately monitor through speakers while playing the cabinet. I can record a small bit and play it back, but I'm trying to save time. Headphones are used all the time for mic placement in studios I've been in, then of course checked through proper monitors. I'm very comfortable with SM57s, and can get great sounds right of the bat, usually off axis on the dust cabs works great for me, but I'm going to be getting some more microphones for some variance.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Mazrak

... Headphones are used all the time for mic placement in studios I've been in, ...

usually a second moving the mic around, while the A1 decides what he wants. That way is easy. I tried what you suggest a few times, after a while I gave it up. If I didn't have a second, I did as I suggested above.

[Little David]

Originally Posted by Mazrak

I've seen both of these headphones mentioned before. How's the sound? I'm trying to escape that honking quality that I've found in many headphones.

The Extremes are midrangey, fwiw. Never heard the other ones.

The point is in the isolation. If the cans isolate, you can move the mic around and hear the relative difference between different positions.

If you want tip top isolation and dead neutral freq response I would imagine you'd be spending lots of bucks, and I'm not sure it's absolutely necessary once you're acclimated to the sound of whatever set you've got.

[Joenuh]

Sorry for hijacking this thread but I am kinda thinking about the same thing. I'm a bedroom recorder/musician as well and I want a headphone for mic placement. The guitars will be about bedroom level, maybe a small hint above. I was wondering if the Beyerdynamic DT-770(M) would be up for the task. I also want to use this as tracking headphone's for bass and vocals.

[beingmf]

Yeah, the trouble is: all closed cans I know of do have that honky midrange, and those with a pleasing natural midrange are (half-)open... I feel your pain.

But (this just came to my mind): a very very good compromise is either the Sennheiser HD-25 or even the Beyer DT-48. They're both supra-aural, loud, clean and they will damp/drown out exterior sources probably enough (if loud enough though). Just an idea...

I use the Beyers myself in similar scenarios where total isolation is not given, and the results are completely satisfying.

[Silent Sound]

Originally Posted by beingmf

Yeah, the trouble is: all closed cans I know of do have that honky midrange, and those with a pleasing natural midrange are (half-)open... I feel your pain.

Yup. This is why you can't rely solely on headphones. I use some sound isolating ear buds with rubber or foam seals around them to seal up your ear canal, and then place ear muffs from a gun shop or the chainsaw section of a hardware store over them. That's about the most isolation I can come up with. It works pretty well, but there's still enough bleed that I have to record a snippet and double/triple check everything. The ear buds I use also don't sound very flat, but I generally find that if the amp sounds good through the ear buds, it'll sound pretty good through my monitors. Not the same, but good through one usually translates to good through the other.

These things take time and lots of trial and error. No real way around it, unless you want to sacrifice some quality. Besides, I'd never make any major tracking or mixing decisions based solely on what any headphones tell me.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

You guys are too tweaky for me. If I can't hit the right spot with the mic in three tries, I give up. I can do it with no phones or special stuff, and so can you. Just do it enough to learn how. Spend your money on other cool stuff that will help with your recordings. Since we've all already agreed that anything you hear in the cans won't match the recording, how much money can you throw at this? Isolated headphones protect you and your hearing from the sound pressure in the room.

[2pulse]

Originally Posted by Silent Sound

I use some sound isolating ear buds with rubber or foam seals around them to seal up your ear canal, and then place ear muffs from a gun shop or the chainsaw section of a hardware store over them.

This is the best you're going to get for one-man, real-time mic placement.

[retrogradeorbit]

This is what I do. I basically use my ear as the microphone.

Turn the guitar amp down to non-ear splitting level. Feed either pink noise through it, or guitar of alternating open chords and chuggy stuff. Get down on your hands and knees. Put an earplug in your bad ear. Cup your hand around the back of your other ear if you're using a cardiod. Or leave your ear normal if using an omni. Crawl around in front of the amp. Closer and further away. Left and right. Up and down. Find the spot with the tightest, clearest bass. Put the mic there. Then adjust finely a couple of centimeters here or there listening in the control room to just perfect the ideal spot.

[Mazrak]

To be honest, the volume this particular amp is being recorded at isn't blaring or anything, it's a step above a loud television in a bedroom, so while I need isolation, I don't need headphones to block out a drummer or cranked amplifier.

If I can't get around the honking midrange, are there any headphones that sound better than others in that area?

Do semi-open back headphones have enough isolation to be usable with a relatively low volume amplifier?

[CanFan]

EX-29's would be your best best. The sound quality is amazing and the isolation is supposed to be 29 dB. The new headbands will not break, they can take some abuse. Hope this helps!

[RARStudios]

Extreme Isolation Headphones |

Like others, this is what I use as as. Great isolation. Stand up guys own the company. Great product for musicians with big and small heads alike.

[Karloff70]

Get a set of Fostex TR40P or TR50P.

Yes, Fostex. Just do it.

[RoadToNever]

Ety ER4S.

[Screws]

I do the same thing with amps, drums and other sources. I tried the Extreme Isolation EX-29s but still heard too much bleed from the amp. I wasn't thrilled with the tone either.

I ended up with these:

Remote Audio HN-7506 High Noise Headset (HN7506) | Trew Audio

Very pricey, but 45 db of iso, as opposed to 29 db. They use Sony 7506 elements, which I'm very used to. I've had them for 5 years and they still work perfectly for finding the sweet spot on a cab, snare, kick or tom.

[NoPro]

Originally Posted by Mazrak

I own a pair of Sony MDR-7506 and they are NOT what I'm looking for. The issue with them, and the handful of similar mixing headphones I've used, is that the midrange has a "honking" quality, which causes distorted guitars to sound nasal and unpleasant, not accurate at all to what I'm hearing through speaker monitors. These headphones are useful for mixing, but I'm looking noise-cancelling for headphones that allow me to listen while changing mic positions on a guitar cabinet and get a decent representation of what I'm going to hear through the monitors. These headphones will exclusively be used for listening to distorted guitar tracks to adjust position, nothing else. I'm thinking that possible some consumer-quality headphones that are meant to sound hyped and "good" rather than accurate might be a better fit for this particular job. I'm looking to spend around 100, maybe slightly more (but not much) if I'm floored by a particular set of headphones' reviews and specs. Suggestions?

Adjust your amp tone without headphones...then mic placement/pre
In my opinion phones are useless except for isolation/edits or late night non serious mixing. Never liked any brand but Sony.

[Arkhe]

What about some in ear monitors like the Ultimate Ears?

[robstercraw]

put your mics where you think they may sound good, record a piece, then play it back... no bueno?? move the mics till you like what you hear on playback.