All new midi controllers are garbage.

[Frodebro]

There are some really nice MIDI controllers out there with great action, but you're not going to find them in the $200 range. The nicest one I found within my budget was an AKAI MPK-88 (weighted keys though, not semi), and the next step up in quality from that was about double that price.

[chopsui]

I can get a used yamaha or casio for under $100 with 100x better keys. This isn't so much about me getting a keyboard just a comment on the quality of all this made in china equipment and the huge explosion of newbie beatmakers they are marketing to.

[Dpro]

I use a Kawai K5000 because it has an excellent keyboard. Most of newer stuff does not impress me feel wise. Though a few do have decent feel like the Novation stuff. Most of stuff you mentioned is all garbage in my opinion.
Another brand that had great feel and can be used as a controller is the older Ensoniq stuff.

[Frodebro]

Originally Posted by chopsui

I can get a used yamaha or casio for under $100 with 100x better keys. This isn't so much about me getting a keyboard just a comment on the quality of all this made in china equipment and the huge explosion of newbie beatmakers they are marketing to.

I have to agree on what is out there being iffy in quality, I couldn't believe how cheap the M-Audio stuff I messed with felt. That was my primary testing procedure, just walking from board to board and giving the keys a good smack.

[gravyface]

Got my old Roland MIDI controller (circa 96 I think) for 50 bucks. 76 keys, semi-weighted, full-sized; feels great. Once I scraped like 10 years worth of tobacco resin off of it, couldn't be happier.

Keep checking craigslist, pawn shops, eBay. Why buy new if you don't need to?

I was surprised to find that the M-Audio KeyRig 49 feels better to my hands than the M-Audio Axiom (1st Gen, Axiom 25) series. I did some pitch bending experiments also with both, and the KeyRig seems to have better/more subtle pitch bending resolution than the Axiom. I think this is because the Axiom's pitchbending spring for center detente is very firm.

The KeyRig 49 only has sustain pedal and a single fader (usually used for MIDI volume, but can be reassigned by DAW or VST software). The Axiom has an expression pedal input though, which is extremely attractive.

After owning and using both, I came to the conclusion that as an electronic music composer, more decent keys is more valuable to me than knobs or pads or faders. The KeyRig 49 requires a gentler human touch, but rewards such with a greater resolution of velocity sensitivity and dynamic control. No parts have been lost or damaged during normal use of either MIDI controller, but I admit that I was repulsed by the "zippery", ratcheted, coglike action of the Axiom's knobs. This was repaired in later generations of the Axiom, I have read. Also, the Axiom is more powerful in terms of customizations, but I found the procedures somewhat difficult to remember. The KeyRig is just simple and limited and therefore much easier to use. Both have octave buttons, but the KeyRig's were easier for me since they aren't dual-purpose.

My hands and feet can only do a limited number of simultaneous gestures, and my composition style relies heavily upon overdubbing, so it's acceptable to only have the single fader of the KeyRig 49. I no longer use the Axiom (25). I do prefer faders to knobs, since multiple faders can be moved simultaneously and can be measured visually at a glance. But the point is moot with only a single fader.

It's too bad the KeyRig (and most modern MIDI controllers as of 2012) doesn't have the expression pedal input.

I used to own an Alesis QS 6.2 ROMpler, and I must admit, except for it's leaky pitchbend, it's action and versatility as a controller was quite excellent and it has aftertouch.

I also agree that Roland keyboard/synths of the past, and modern stuff like the AKAI Miniak tend to have pretty good action.

I don't really like weighted keys even though I used to play piano. They just feel too slow to me. The Axiom's semiweighted keys felt somewhat reasonable, but I don't really even go for semiweighted keys. My feeling is that if you want piano action, use an actual piano; the piano's sound is going to be more genuine of course also as long as it's recorded properly.

Pads, really attracted me to the Axiom at first, but in actual practice of composing, I tend to get more results from assigning percussion samples to various keys, which can be flexibly assigned and triggered simultaneously in different combos. Pads feel comforting like a hardware drum machine, but are similarly just as limited. If I realy wanted drum pads, I'd probably opt for something full-scale such as Roland V-drums or a drumkat or equivalent.

I am also astonished at the MIDI controller prices since I grew up with some exposure to hardware synths of earlier times that had better action AND good sounds. But pure MIDI controllers as they exist today are a new phenomenon in a way, and I like the creativity that is starting to be catered to through them. Not everybody is a pianist, organist, or keyboardist, and some fantastic modern music is made with knob and fader gestures and modest key changes.

But again, a limit exists of how many control surface elements a person will actually need for their own musical pursuits. I'd rather have more fast and light keys, an extra mod wheel, and an expression pedal, than weighting or pads or switches. Faders can be nice also, but for someone like me, 4 is probably nice, and even 1 is enough.

[tvent]

I always thought all of the M-audio keys were just horrible and it always baffled me that so many people had them.

I actually like the Novation stuff that I have tried.
It feels like they put some thought behind it.

Have you tried any of the Edirol/Roland stuff?
I had one a few years back that had the best action I had ever had in a "modern" controller. It was absolutely fantastic. I think it was the PCR series. Had a few knobs and faders on it, but no drum pads. I can't say enough good things about the feel of it.

[chopsui]

Originally Posted by gravyface

Got my old Roland MIDI controller (circa 96 I think) for 50 bucks. 76 keys, semi-weighted, full-sized; feels great. Once I scraped like 10 years worth of tobacco resin off of it, couldn't be happier.

Keep checking craigslist, pawn shops, eBay. Why buy new if you don't need to?

HAHA! Tobacco Resin. Dude you made me lol so hard my dog started barking.

[chopsui]

Originally Posted by tonemaker

I used to own an Alesis QS 6.2 ROMpler, and I must admit, except for it's leaky pitchbend, it's action and versatility as a controller was quite excellent and it has aftertouch.

"Pads, really attracted me to the Axiom at first, but in actual practice of composing, I tend to get more results from assigning percussion samples to various keys, which can be flexibly assigned and triggered simultaneously in different combos.

LOL what is a leaky pitch bend... I dont even want to know.


Yeah I was also surprised at how accurate the pads on the axiom in the store I tested. It actually was able to have a light hit, light medium, medium, hard, but how long will M-Audio gear last? Probably a year or two at best.

And yeah I will never buy an Axiom because faders... just buy a mixer. Even the $60 nanokontrol2 is better than Axiom or Akai. Heck, the NanoKontrol 1 with it's 4 programmable scenes is way better and its 30 freakin bucks. Once again quality issues so I opted for the kontrol2 and it's solid as a freakin rock.

It's also annoying when the keys do a better job than the pads. It's seriously just for looks. I don't care how cool or not cool gear looks, people might bag on my MPK Mini and NanoKontrol2 setup, but when I bust out TouchOSC with it's lemur-like interface, shit gets serious. Honestly the MPK Mini is better in every way than the MPK 61 I sold. A $70 MPK Mini and $60 NanoKontrol2 have completely replaced the MPK 61 using about 1/10th the space and 20% the price.

Now I have money for some nice studio monitors, finally upgraded from my fast track noob (pro) interface, I will never buy M-Audio again. Ever.

[chopsui]

If you have the MPK Mini get an extended warranty on it this thing has quality issues as well. Flimsy solder connection from the micro-usb to the motherboard. One day you will plug it in and it will fall inside and your MPK Mini becomes a paperweight. $16.99 pro coverage for guarunteed 3 years of perfect MPK Mini is pretty good though, honestly this garbage gear forces you to get warranties. Korg doesn't need a warranty though, that thing is solid like I said before. You feel the quality in Korg. Actually I want to switch from the MPK Mini to the Korg MicroKey37, I hear the quality and keys are 10/10. I use a lot of knobs though so that probably won't happen, 4 banks of knobs and 8 banks of pads, with synth-action-like keys is pretty bad @$$ for it's price range, just gotta warranty up.

My only wish is that this Yamaha PSS-130 I got for $7 had midi ports... the other PSS models do, bad yamaha, bad.

[zzzxtreme]

chopsui, i feel the same way.

roland is nice, but overpriced. the korg minikey are good, but no midi ports.

i'll be so happy if there's a "USB-to-MIDI ports" adapter thingy

I just need a nice 49 key controller that feels as good as M1 or similar

Samson Graphite 49 for $200 ? hopefully the quality is good, but samsons hmmmmm
new Line6 controllers, no MIDI port

[chopsui]

I found my new toy...

Amazon.com: Casio LK165 61-Lighted Key Personal Keyboard: Musical Instruments

Lighted Keyboard for $113 with...

Maximum Polyphony: 48
MIDI: GM Level 1 compliant
Key Transpose: +/-1 octave, -12 to 0 to +12 semitones
Tuning Control: A4 = 415.5 - 440.0 - 465.9 Hz
Number of built in tones: 400
Stereo sampling piano tone: Yes
Sampling function: Maximum recording time 1 second, Maximum 3 sampled tones
Reverb: 10 types
Number of rhythms: 150
Number of one touch preset: 150
Number of built-in songs: 110 songs including 20 practice songs
Step up lesson: Yes
Metronome: 0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 beats
Adjustable tempo: From 30 to 255
Number of demonstration song: 90 songs, loop play back except practice songs
Auto start demonstration: Yes
Pads: 5 pads x 4 sets
LCD size: 92 millimeters x 40 millimeters
I con: Common I con design
USB port: To host
MIC IN jack: Yes
SUSTAIN JACK: Yes
PHONES OUTPUT jack: Yes
DC IN jack: 9.5 Volt
Speaker size: 10 centimeters x 2
Speaker output: 2W + 2W
Power: DC 9.5 Volt, 6 AA size batteries
Included Accessories:
AC Adapter: Yes

TL;DR: USB. Check. Midi. Check. Mic In, Check. Built in Speakers, Check. runs off 6 AA batteries... check. Teaches you how to play, with build quality and features off the wazoo. Not to mention it's new @ $113.

I'm sure I can find something crazy to do with those key lightings with those midi outs =P. Forgot to mention: built in sampler

Time for sleep...


EDIT: Fooled again. Always double check reviews. Apparently it's velocity sensitivity is sub-par for the pro pianists at piano.about.com

Anyway, since I wasn't even caring about a sustain pedal I'm sure it'll be fine regardless, but that bad review leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[David C.]

I've still got my Roland D-10 I bought new in the late 80's. It's got the best key feel of any synth action I've ever played and still works perfect to this day. You can get them cheap on ebay and they're built like tanks.

[Bondo21]

I don't think I saw this mentioned, but the newer Arturia keyboards are very nice. I have an older Yamaha, and love it, but they are discontinued. These newer Arturias are the heaviest build quality I have seen in a while, and the keys actually have some feel to them. The Novation stuff is nice as well. I think with the price point that you should be able to get it from at a dealer, the Arturia is tough to beat.

[chopsui]

Sweet, thanks for the tip man. I have wanted a synthesizer ever since I started programming my own patches in softsynths, just curious how much do they usually go for? $100? I'm on a pretty strapped budget I might have to put it on my wish list. Trying to make some money as we speak. I posted an ad on craigslist giving DAW lessons and now apparently I'm a teacher making $20 an hour =)

[Yann Leon]

Originally Posted by Dpro

I use a Kawai K5000 because it has an excellent keyboard. Most of newer stuff does not impress me feel wise. Though a few do have decent feel like the Novation stuff. Most of stuff you mentioned is all garbage in my opinion.
Another brand that had great feel and can be used as a controller is the older Ensoniq stuff.

+1.

Novation rules.

I own the nocturn 49 keys + 25 Keys + 2 Launchpad.

My launchpad control Macros in Cubase... so I don't use my keyboard anymore....or mouse.

The automap can handle many controller at once... hence the 4 midi controllers I run at the same time...

Life is good! ;-)

[4damind]

Hmm, I think it's true. I'm not very happy with my Axiom Pro 61. Sticky keys and stuff. The quality is very bad, not to mention the buggy drivers and not existing support from M-Audio. I wished there was a nice controller but I think there is nothing available.

I think I give up the idea of a Midi controller and will instead buy in the future again a synth with a keyboard.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by chopsui

HAHA! Tobacco Resin. Dude you made me lol so hard my dog started barking.

No joke man. Went through three containers of Lysol wipes. Just so gross.

[Travst]

Originally Posted by Bondo21

I don't think I saw this mentioned, but the newer Arturia keyboards are very nice. I have an older Yamaha, and love it, but they are discontinued. These newer Arturias are the heaviest build quality I have seen in a while, and the keys actually have some feel to them. The Novation stuff is nice as well. I think with the price point that you should be able to get it from at a dealer, the Arturia is tough to beat.

I agree. I looked at all the budget controllers and liked a couple of them like the Novation, which is very nice. In the end, I chose the Arturia and haven't regretted it. Of course, the free synths did sweeten the deal.

[CJ Mastering]

In short and stating the obvious, you get what you pay for. Saying all ar garbage is a very bad generalization.
You can get quality MIDI controllers that are new. Not all MIDI controllers are the same, as the more they cost, the more likely that they are better thna the cheaper ones. Same goers for houses and cars.

Cj

[chopsui]

Originally Posted by CJ Mastering

In short and stating the obvious, you get what you pay for. Saying all ar garbage is a very bad generalization.
You can get quality MIDI controllers that are new. Not all MIDI controllers are the same, as the more they cost, the more likely that they are better thna the cheaper ones. Same goers for houses and cars.

Cj

So a $400 Akai MPK 61 is a cheap budget controller? The crappy pads and poor quality keys? I guess good controllers go for $1000+ these days.

Maybe I felt the wrong novation keyboards, but I didn't like the way they felt. I will buy the Korg Microkey, I know it's solid, compact, and at $80 can't complain. It's all about brand. I'm not into all these new brands jumping outta nowhere to cater to this new music production fad thats popped up outta nowhere. Everyone and their grandma is making dubstep or hiphop these days. I'm gonna stick with tried and true brands like Korg.

I swear ableton makes their program useless if you're not using ableton gear. You have to click the little button every time you want to enable the keyboard, unless you're using an Ableton controller! Or try launching clips without a launchpad or similar device. I'm lucky I had an iPod laying around I can just use that and TouchOSC instead of paying $130 for a motherboard with buttons and lights. Might as well plug in a 2nd keyboard and just use that, instead of the launchpad. Nah, I'm not getting a novation controller they can't even give the software away fast enough, just because they know you will buy a launchpad ($130) and novation controller SLII and overpay.

I'd rather buy a keyboard that will last for decades, especially for the price of novation controllers (besides the Nocturn, which is $250 for 49 keys...)

[ray_subsonic]

Dude .. I'm feeling your pain .. Seriously, it's something I lament.

+1 to both of the keyboards mentioned above. Both the Roland D10 (surprisingly indestructible) and the Kawai K5000. I'd also add that 1st generation DX7's have a keyboard you can really dig into. You might find any of these on Craigslist for less than $400 depending on the situation. .

I remember when the key action used to be a major sticking point when the people buying were more concerned about both the internal sounds and actually playing the keyboard. It was totally a "Feel" thing.

I've already ponied up on an M-Audio controller (cheap, plastic, driver issues) and a Novation (Automap driver issues), and sold both.

Currently, people literally wouldn't know the difference between the feel of one keyboard compared to another. Most controllers sold nowadays are so crap because the current generation of "Beatmakers" (lol) will never get beyond one finger noodling and s-s-sampling. Sampling for the most part nowadays has just turned into some horrendous form of Postmodernist Crap.

[Bullseye]

I have like a 10 year old EMU X Board 49. It is really on its last legs. The knobs work but the pitch bend is sticky and overall it was never a "quality" keyboard.

The Akai Max 49 looks great particularly since I have a few analogue synths and one in particular that would benefit greatly from an arpeggiator and sequencer that puts out CV.

The key feel is not quite so important since I have other keyboards from which I can choose from 88 key weighted to 37 key synth action that I can use if I need better key feel. What I need is a 49 key board to replace the X Board that can control everything from Pro Tools to soft synths to analogue CV.

So....anyone get one of these yet? Is it even available yet?

[buildsafire]

I really like my Novation Impulse 61. It is pretty stout build quality... great aftertouch keys, and tons of features that actually work, thanks to Automap... and they consistently update Automap when they know they need to. For $400 street, it is a solid unit.

[brockorama]

Still using my old kurz k2000 after 20 years. Love the feel.

[cereal13]

I'm still happy with my old Korg XD5. But mostly I use my Novation XioSynth for everything. I like the on-board synth better than any Logic plugs.

[vxt]

Hi all, I'm totally new and trying to setup a basic home studio around Logic Pro.

I'm so frustrated. I've been researching midi keyboards for a month now, went from MPK49 to MAX49 to Impulse to SL MkII then back to MPK but just can't decide cause all of them have bad reviews and Max49 is a just a feak without faders/knobs.

But thanks to this thread, I think you guys helped me narrow down my needs at the moment. I would like to be able to mess with all kinds of music production. So here is my purchase list.

1. Maschine Micro
2. Korg NanoKontrol 2
3. Korg MicroKey 37

I'm not happy with the 3rd one. I would really like full sized keys with aftertouch. Also I want something that accepts sustain and expression pedals. I don't need any knobs or anything on the keyboard, just very good sensitive keys and pitch/mod wheels.

Korg MicroKey 37 would've been perfect if it were fullsized with pedal inputs. I hear real bad things about M-Audio stuff too. Can anyone please please please help me pick a midi keyboard?

PS: This is off topic but just so you understand how clueless I am about all this: I also need to decide on audio interface or external soundcards but I don't even know what exactly they do yet. But seems like I shouldn't be depending on my Macbook Pro soundcard for pro quality sound. Any info on this would also be extremely helpful!

[John The Cut]

I totally agree with the OP.

I have an M-audio Axiom as main controoler and it is horrible to play.

Roland, Yamaha, Casio etc have a heritage of making 'musical instruments' that musicians used to actually play. I love Roland keyboards personally.

I recently bought a D50 just for the keyboard, got a great synth into the bargain too Roland all the way imo

[firby]

Don't sleep on the old old Roland A series. I have the Roland A33 and I really like the action. However, I don't think that one has aftertouch but I played everything new guitar centerish and a bunch of cheap old keyboards and bought this. Also it has two midi outs which are button assignable so I can run two synths with it at once or one and then an out to the DAW and vice versa.

Roland P series controllers. Mine feels a little bit like a kurzweil P something keyboard. When I write midi data with it, the velocities come out perfect very easily and it is quite expressive.

It's old and tough.


regards and good luck, there is some real junk out there.