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chameleon labs 7802 mod- any tube replacement suggestions?
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Old 7th July 2012   #1
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chameleon labs 7802 mod- any tube replacement suggestions?

just got a chameleon labs 7802- love this guy on vocals! doesnt sound like an la2a, but damn- it works just as well in its own way with a bit of tweaking.
has anyone replaced/upgraded the tube in this thing? its a two channel unit but only has one tube inside (dual triode 12ax7?).
dunno if it'll make any difference but couldn't hurt and its a dead easy mod.
any suggestions?
cheers
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Old 17th July 2012   #2
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just did this "mod" to my 7802 today! replaced the stock tube with a RCA 5751 Black plate... I processed a bass track with it for further comparison, but I wish I had done it with vocal too... =/
Enjoy!
7802 stock vs RCA bp by ygorrajao on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
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Old 17th July 2012   #3
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just a little info on the samples...
compression: noon
time constant: faster (attack 10ms)
drive: noon
output: calibrated to unit with sinewave
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Old 16th August 2012   #4
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RCA.. Thinking of trying it.
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Old 14th November 2012   #5
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Mullard

Mullard. Smoothed it out. Darkened it up nicely. No more brittle top end. It's twice the unit it used to be now.
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Old 14th November 2012   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbiehouston View Post
Mullard. Smoothed it out. Darkened it up nicely. No more brittle top end. It's twice the unit it used to be now.
Hey Robbie,
Can you be a little more specific about what kind of Tube it is? Thank you Robbie! I actually love my 7802. Is there 2 tubes in this bad boy?
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Old 15th November 2012   #7
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Tube depot

This is where I got mine.

Mullard 12AX7 / ECC83 New Production Preamp Vacuum Tube
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Old 15th November 2012   #8
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Oh yeah. Just One tube.
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Old 15th November 2012   #9
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Sounds like a simple swap. Thanks again.
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Old 15th November 2012   #10
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Is it a simple SWAP guys?
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Old 16th November 2012   #11
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Careful

It is very simple but also very delicate. Open it up. The tube is right there. Just pull it out and put a new one in. The PCB is not super stable and the tube is pretty tightly in it's socket. You have to be very patient and delicate with removing the stock tube. I was too heavy handed and managed to bust some solder point as the PCB moved around. Luckily, Chameleon is pretty affordable with repairs.
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Old 4th December 2012   #12
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I just tried a Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) only because I had one laying around. Sounds fantastic--hope it's ok, being an 12AT7 (not 12AX7) It has a lot more definition and better high freq response. The drive distortion is less but sound more natural--this didn't get extreme anyway--I have a Culture Vulture for that. Huge improvement to me, very smooth.
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Old 8th February 2013   #13
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Just popped in a Mullard 12AX7. World of difference. Superb definition. Getting another 7802 in a couple of weeks. Will probably try something else to start with for a different flavor, but will go to a Mullard if nothing works.
Super easy swap, but yeah, be careful. Went in fine, but got dicey trying to firmly seat it.
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Old 8th February 2013   #14
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Talking

Anybody care to post pics of the guts?

I'd be curious to see if there's any room for improvement outside of tubes.

The 7602 benefits greatly from mods as does the 7720 (SSL compressor).

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Old 8th February 2013   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
Anybody care to post pics of the guts?

I'd be curious to see if there's any room for improvement outside of tubes.

The 7602 benefits greatly from mods as does the 7720 (SSL compressor).

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What's the cost and what's done Illumi???
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Old 9th February 2013   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
What's the cost and what's done Illumi???
I need to see the guts to know what kind of surgery can be done.

The CL 7802 is often mentioned as an upgrade over a Pro VLA so I'm curious to see what the differences are besides the obvious price difference.

If the CL7802 uses a traditional opto compression circuit, upgradeable tube path, PSU and signal path, then quite a bit can be done to turn the unit into something monstrous. The Pro VLA offers a great deal of potential because of the components they use so if somebody would be so kind as to snap a pic of the 7802 the next time they go in there to upgrade the tubes, I'll be so kind as to pull out the lab light and tell you what I see.

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Old 9th February 2013   #17
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Ok got my wish and so here's what I see.

The 7802 is quite a bit different from a "stock" Pro VLA. The tube circuit is rather different since the 7802 utilizes a solitary dual triode 12xxx7 tube instead of a pair as featured in the Pro VLA.

The 7802 uses the same style of opto compression as the ART Pro VLA. The implementation is different but the foundation of the circuit is the same.

What I can garner from the views of the PCB is that we have some opamps on sockets which could potentially be upgraded to audiophile components.

I'd also like to investigate how much voltage is going to the plate of the tubes in the 7802 along with how the PSU is set up to see if there's any room for more juice, along with the way the plate of the tube is being loaded. The caps can be upgraded with high end equivalents or improvements so that a low self noise is encouraged. Gotta get a peek at those diodes to see what they are spitting out, it will help us to figure out the game plan.

I see a bunch of film caps of smaller value along with some of the big red film caps that are worthy of investigation, if they can/should be upgraded I'm sure a good quality audiophile film cap would do rather well in those positions.

There's some tantalum caps that have my curiosity piqued...the electrolytic caps (I can't see the value from the pictures) but I'm sure upgrading them to Panasonics or Nichicons can't hurt but I'm always down for rolling values as well at coupling stages to see if we can expand bandwidth.

Last but not least we touch upon the output transformers.

I know from first hand experience that you can make the Chinese transformers in the GAP73 and a few other circuits sound good if you really pimp out the amplifier section of the device however, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that a pair of Cinemag CMOB or CMOQ style transformers would fair thee well. I'd want to see if 1:1 Carnhills or EAs would fit but the stock ratio would be of interest as well. Jensens would definitely be a no brainer.

For the budget (but when performance is still imperative) minded a set of OEPs would be sweet as well.

The Drive circuit is of interest particularly because the Pro VLA has a resistor off the tube that is set for optimal THD so that the unit does not distort unintentionally. Seeing as how the Drive on the 7802 is acting like an input control which can drive the tube of the 7802 into harmonic distortion I'm curious to see what it actually does.

As a recording and mixing engineer's aside I'm rather tickled that the 7802 is considered "better" than an ART Pro VLA. The 7802 offers 2 distinct ratios, no separate control over attack and release and no threshold control (but perhaps the compression control on the 7802 is a reverse threshold??). There's metering for gain reduction and no input or output levels.

Compared to the ART Pro VLA's variable threshold, variable attack and release, ratio that goes from 2:1 to decimate, output control and dedicated dual triode tubes on each channel.

Maybe its the transformers that make the 7802 sexier?

The hi-pass filter is a nice look, the 7802 offers this to help the end user avoid pumping on bass heavy compression. I've recommended other ways around this issue for different opto compressors.


BTW I did some digging while I wrote this and a fellow in Japan upgraded the 7802s transformers with some custom iron among a few other things and so at least we know it can be done. Obviously somebody has to humbly submit their unit for examination, the 7802 could have undergone some revisions over time. Overall the prognosis is positive.

Simple math tells you that the 7802 is not a cheap donor device for mods. There are definitely cheaper compressors that benefit just as greatly from mods. Some people love the 7802 in its stock form. However there are quite a few things that can be done to open the unit's sound up, improve the behavior of the compressor, the tube section and the overall sonics of the device.


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