Super low budget beginner

[Melvin III]

Acid is a daw you can it done with that I used to use acid pro 4.0 years ago the music sounded decent.

But reaper you should demo it for 30 days before buying it that's what's so great about stuff these days you can try before you buy.

What mic do you have and what interface?

Midi board what are your uses for this? Do you produce

[krismax24]

Originally Posted by Melvin III

Acid is a daw you can it done with that I used to use acid pro 4.0 years ago the music sounded decent. ...

What mic do you have and what interface?

Midi board what are your uses for this? Do you produce

But is Acid studio ok even if it isn't acid PRO?

no mic, and no interface.. I need tips buying them because there are so many

Midi keyboard to record piano and some synths.. I don't know what I'm exactly going to do, but just want to start, learn and figure out the direction later

[ksandvik]

Craigslist is full of good used MIDI controllers for low prices.

[ObiK]

Yeah buying used can get you a lot further with this budget. I'd stick with the DAW you have now and look at upgrading in the future as soon as you have extra funds. Stick with what you have now and focus on decent used hardware like your audio interface/midi controller.

[eddie.machete]

Pick up a first gen m audio axiom keyboard dirt cheap for what it offers. You can control your daw with it. As for monitoring, its gonna be quality headphones or meh monitors, go for headphones .Reaper is rock solid.

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[eddie.machete]

Originally Posted by krismax24

Hey guys, I want to start recording/making music for a hobby and need help starting off.

I've got sony Soundforge and Acid 8.0 (not acid pro). Can that sub for a DAW or should I swallow $60 and get Reaper?

Also, I'm looking for a cheap (sub $150) A/I and midi keyboard

Any suggestions, tips, personal knowledge is appreciated!

(total budget.. $300 minus computer cost)

Also get on Google and search free vsts. Cus your gonna need some for reaper. There's some really great free vsts.

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[Yardboy]

Reaper...check.
Some free plugins...try some of Bootsy's stuff, and Stillwell demos too.
Mics: SM57 or 58 = $60 used, then maybe a MXL V67g for $100ish for a decent, non-high end hyped large diaphram condenser.

[krismax24]

what to look for in an audio interface?
I have this, this and this in mind.. community pick ("other" is a choice as well)?

[Kierkes]

Originally Posted by krismax24

what to look for in an audio interface?
I have this, this and this in mind.. community pick ("other" is a choice as well)?

Just so you know, the Duet Breakout box is designed to be used in conjunction with the Apogee Duet 2, which is an audio interface that goes for double your max budget.

Ask if you want your MIDI controller to be connectable via USB/MIDI cable, both. This will help you narrow down your possibilities in audio interfaces and MIDI keyboards. Get on Craigslist and eBay. Some of the M-Audio Keyboards go for pretty cheap. I sold an Oxygen 61 on CL for $100 last fall; if you don't need 61 keys, you can save more money. If you need 88, the cheapest thing you'll probably find is the Keystation 88ES. Need weighted keys, and you've left your budget by a couple of Frankies. Buy used for the MIDI controllers. The third generation Oxygens don't trigger the key until almost entirely depressed, which was a PITA for me, and quite frankly, the fader travel is much too little to do any precise adjusting on most of these MIDI keyboards.

As for an interface, shop around on eBay as well (no experiences doing an interface through CL, but it's a mission-critical tool, arguably unlike the controller). You again have to consider whether or not you'd need MIDI on it. A lot of these sub-$300 interfaces come with their own pared-down versions of their company's software, and it is often very usable. If you plan on letting this influence your decision, make sure you read up on the software, as some of them have absolutely stupid restrictions.

Good luck; you're doing great so far!

[wholetthehousego]

I've been on the mobile interface hunt and compared to a few years back there are so many workable options out right now.

The used market is your friend.

[skira]

Originally Posted by krismax24

Also, I'm looking for a cheap (sub $150) A/I and midi keyboard.... (total budget.. $300 minus computer cost)

M-Audio has a 'KeyStudio Bundle' for $129.99 that consists of the 49-key KeyStudio keyboard, Pro Tools SE (lite version) DAW, and a tiny M-Audio Micro USB interface. Everything you'd need to get started, for less than half your budget. Go find free or cheap softsynths and go play.

[ObiK]

That's actually a pretty good option for production based music, not the best for recording, but would be sufficient to get started.

[eddie.machete]

You can pick up a 24 bit interface used on eBay or even new cheap. M audio is as good a place to start as any. Theres also cheap focusrite interfaces that will have better pre amps.focusrite Scarlett 2 in I suggest. With a used m audio keyboard, as for mixing its not necessary right now for a mixer. Do it in the box. Concentrate on what your putting in and how your getting in and how your hearing it after its in.

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[krismax24]

I had ordered a Akai Pro LPK25 from amazon for $50 before I reading skira's post and promptly cancelled my order.

however, the keystudio set doesn't seem to offer a way to record vocals with its 1/8 input.

I could spend another 30 min or so looking for a budget a/i with no guarantee of protools se
or stick with keystudio and buy a usb mic (which i was under the assumption were lower quality than ones with XLR connections..).

what does the community think?

[AudioMaven]

hi it is great to get started on a budget and I was in your place a long time ago and if I had it to do now I would suggest these options.

1. DAW: Reaper is great, I use it now and love it and if you have used pro tools it is somewhat similar but I like it more due to lower resources IMO.

2. Audio Interface: Fast track pro is a good Audio Interface and comes with Pro-tools lite. I have one used that I would part with for $90 + shipping that I been meaning to put on Ebay. I use a Tascam 144MK 2 now and a zoom R24. However if you are starting then starting with Pro-tools is a good idea due to the fact of how much support there is for it and room to grow into a more sophisticated version. I am very old school and started in the analog 4 track cassette days moving up to 8 tracks / Cakewalk hybrid etc so the Daw is not as relevant to me. However from first hand I can tell you protools and reaper are solid Daws

3. Mic's and Pre: OK here is something I think is VERY IMPORTANT now and that is to get a good mic. In a perfect world you will have several but on a budget I would suggest the Shure SM 57 and studio Projects B1. Honestly if you want to get better recordings you will need a decent mic or 2 and both mentioned are budget friendly but very good ( I use the B1 on almost everything ). V67 is good also because it has almost no color but only in my opinion very little character. You can use it but you might work a bit harder than with the B1. Rode NT1-a is a good mic also for leads with guys especially but if you stack vocals a lot or work with some females it will work you a bit more than needed. The best thing to start with is a mic with less color at first.

Consider saving up for a preamp I use a Presonus tube pre with a modified tube at home but the Pre on the fast track pro is very good IMHO as well. Generally using a pre-amp will be better than the one provided on your audio Interface.

Lastly study the art of recording. Read and watch all you can for free and set a bit aside to even purchase a course on recording. You can get some really good sounds and do amazing stuff out of your home studio now for a small budget but a great deal of it relies on you and your ears and honesty not the gear at all to be completely honest. Also there are tons of great VST + VSTI out there for free to get started with and I like the m audio axiom keyboard as well. You might also want to look at a good pair of headphones to use to monitor like the ones from KRK. Most important things for recording at this point I believe are good monitors, good mic(s) and some solid instruction on the proper use of effects like EQ,Compression and reverb.
A little time set aside every day to work with whatever gear you have consistently learning as you record.

[krismax24]

bought A/I -
So dang excited! it comes with cubebase LE as well.
Now just need a Midi keyboard and a decent mic.

[skira]

Congratulations! So you have $240 left in your budget? If so, the best quality controller keyboards (best built, best keybed) are probably:

M-Audio Axiom Pro 25 ($199)
Akai MPK25 ($225)
Novation Impulse 25 ($200)

M-Audio Axiom 49 ($230, not the Axiom Pro, which is better but costs more)
M-Audio KeyStudio 49i ($250)

Of these, if I had to choose a keyboard controller for myself that would stand up to punishment, with a max budget of $240 I'd buy any of the 25-key controller keyboards listed above (but I have a soft spot for Novation gear so....).

[krismax24]

I actually want to keep the purchase sub $100 bc for microphones (looks to be $50+), books and possibly reaper.

two questions for community:
1) Get reaper now, or stick with cubebase LE, Acid studio 8 (not pro) and/or whatever comes with the controller?

2) Alesis Q25 25-Key, Akai MPK mini, M-Audio Oxygen 25 v3, M-Audio KeyRig 49 or other?

I would prefer 37+ keys, but that would trade off with capability (knobs, switches, sliders, Oh my!). Is it a worthy tradeoff for a beginner?

again, thanks a billion!

Edit: added M-audio keyrig& blip about capability

[krismax24]

Originally Posted by GaryWeinrib

Acid is as good as reaper. In fact the plugin chain is arguably better.
The looping is non existent in reaper. Acid is a great tool.
I would be happier with Acid over protools to be honest

is it okay if its not acid pro? I have the studio 8 (on the left) while i think the DAW is the one in the middle.

[skira]

Cubase or Acid would be fine. (So would Ableton Lite if you get a keyboard with it.) But also know that you absolutely can use Reaper past the intro period with no ill effects and no restrictions.

$150 keyboard? Hmm. Sort of pushing the price/quality barrier.

M-Audio KEYSTATION 61ES ($134)
M-Audio Axiom 25, 2nd-gen ($150 at B&H, but currently out of stock)
Novation Nocturn 25 ($146 Amazon/Nova Musik)

Again, if I was that limited in budget I'd choose one of the 25-key controller keyboards. If you need to buy now you won't find the Axiom 25 anywhere for under $195 so I'd go with the Nocturn which is a really nice, really portable keyboard that comes with Ableton Lite.

EDIT: Axiom 25 is $169 at AudioMidi.com (good shop).

Info: Nocturn Keyboard Keyboard controller with intelligent plug-in/DAW control

Reviews:
Novation Nocturn Keyboard 25 | Tech Reviews | MusicRadar.com
Novation Nocturn

[eddie.machete]

Yea, I've been using reaper and updating for about two years. Still haven't paid for it. Barely use it anymore. Good for heavy work though. Uses little CPU resources.

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[vstace]

Don't forget Audacity for a free stereo mastering program. And Variety of Sound's free plugins for mastering.

Also you may want to consider a condenser mic instead of dynamic. You can get a Behringer, Samson, or MXR for about $50.

Having a small mixer is nice too, find one with USB, and now you have an AISO mixer/sound card for $100

Plenty of great free options for synths and drums. Grab a drum sample torrent if you want. Google best free vst synths.

Monitors are your biggest challenge on a budget. The Behringer Truth's sound nice for the money, but really, any decent set of speakers can be learned, which is the most important factor in understanding how you music will translate. So listen to all your favorite music on the speakers you use in the studio.

Hope to help.

[prizebeatz1]

If it were me I would get the M-Audio KeyRig 49 and stick with Cubase. Minimize your expenses. You don't need many knobs (one is actually enough) on a midi controller but I'm biased as I am studio keyboardist. Of course it's nice to have more but for $100 you will be fine.

[Go Nigel Go]

Cubase LE is a pretty decent DAW for bundled software. I used it for a couple of years before I even thought about upgrading (to Cubase 6). You won't run into any limitations in LE with your set up. Until you start recording full bands with 16 or more simultaneous inputs, Cubase LE is as good as the full version. I forget what the maximum number of TOTAL tracks on LE is, but it's way more than I've ever used. I'm thinking 125 total and 8 simultaneous inputs. It's a full featured DAW, you've got it, I'd go with that. Use your money for some of the other stuff on your wish list.

[krismax24]

Thanks for answers regarding DAWs and keyboards.
I keep getting ambitious and lust for the more expensive stuff, but i suppose every poor musician starts with compromises. Thanks to skira and jdomini00, I think i'll buy the M-studio keyrig 49 when my next paycheck rolls out.

Also, I'll probably try to snipe a good SM57 from ebay or something

I found tweakheadz.com and it seems to have a lot of answers to the beginner's questions. are there other websites (barring the g-slutz' forum search) that you think are especially good for certain tutorials?

Thanks guys
xoxoxo
:D

Edit: update- just got a "nicely used" sm57 from ebay for 70 bucks. haha with my bank almost drained, gotta learn patience for the keyrig..
Until then, please feel free to post websites you visit for help&tutorials!

[Lights]

I have to go against the grain here and say AVOID ACID LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!!!!

I started with Acid. It was a thing of beauty "back in the day" when Acid showed that you could do amazing things with audio and there weren't affordable DAWs on the market. But it has since become less and less stable version over version and after I upgraded to Acid Pro7 and 7 (for which Sony charged a ridiculous price each time, as if it were a true DAW), I found myself fighting limitations, quirky behavior, and crashes all the time. It was maddening. Sony has done nothing in the past 3 years to upgrade Acid. It's been orphaned. Don't waste any time with that software.

I tried Reaper. I wanted desperately to like it, but I ran into two problems: 1--it wasn't working properly with my interface and nobody on the support boards offered any advice that would solve the issues. 2--it wasn't stable with VSTs that I had purchased. 3--I couldn't wrap my head around the UI/workflow model. It seemed really clumsy and unintuitive to my brain.

I switched to Cubase 5 and then 6 and have loved its absolutely flawless performance.

Now, of course Cubase is pretty pricey. But Cubase AI6 comes free with a bunch of hardware. I got a free copy of Cubase AI with each CMC controller I bought, so I set up Cubase AI on my old DAW for my son and it is surprisingly full featured. It uses the soft-elicenser, which is actually quite good and let me un-license one PC and move the license to another automatically.

I actually own ProTools M-Powered 8 but never opened the box because of the strange issues that ProTools M-Powered and LE have relative to HD in that generation of product. (For example, no built-in delay compensation. Really?) This was fixed with ProTools 10, I believe. But when I was looking to sell my unopened copy of 8, I couldn't find any way on Avid's site to upgrade from 8 to 10, so I felt like selling it was cheating the buyer and it sits collecting dust.

So if you could find a cheap audio interface or keyboard controller that came with Cubase AI6 or another variant of Cubase, I'd have to vote for that, versus the other options.

[krismax24]

Update.
Sm57 arrived, Lexington Alpha arrived.
Installed Cubebase LE 5.
I've started reading on tweakheadz and have been looking for tuts for cubebase.

I need tips on buying a midi controller. I've been looking at avid keystudio (per my previous posts), but it includes protools SE which I don't think I need because of cubebase.
Should I look for a controller for the same price with better features (minus protools) or get keystudio?

[AldenW]

Originally Posted by krismax24

I actually want to keep the purchase sub $100 bc for microphones (looks to be $50+), books and possibly reaper.

two questions for community:
1) Get reaper now, or stick with cubebase LE, Acid studio 8 (not pro) and/or whatever comes with the controller?
y

I started on Cubase LE and Acid 7 (it was a ripped version of Acid, I'll admit that). Cubase I could do decent things with, but the best thing I ever did for my mixing was upgrade my DAW. For me, that was Pro Tools (first M-Powered, then full version). I've heard good things about Reaper. There's a continuous learning curve with any DAW, and there's really not much of a peak to how good you can get with it (that I've seen, at least). You might as well learn on something that you'll never outgrow, and moreover, something doesn't make your job more difficult. A good DAW is a pleasure to use.
The second best thing I did was buy a reliable desktop computer.

I got a used Keystation 49e for $50 shipped on ebay. It's very basic and it feels cheap, but it gets the job done. I'd buy it again (in fact, I did. damaged it during a move).

Oh, and I wouldn't focus too much on finding free VSTs online right now. Reaper comes with some good tools (I've used the plug-ins), and I'd start by learning those. I haven't found any free VSTs that I couldn't live without.

[eddie.machete]

I don't know where you got your copy of reaper, but part of why its so cheap is the fact it doesn't come with any instruments apart from a sampler and maybe one very basic synth. Effects sure. I have a good few free vst's I use ill post a list for the op when I get on my pc.

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