Budget Pre

[JohnNy C]

Ok, I need two channels of Pre to sweeten my synths up when tracking to Protools through my Onyx. I am on a budget of $500 for two channels. As I said, it will be used for very little mic work, but more for synths and samplers. Thanks.

[DrDeltaM]

Maybe just get a dual channel DI? Something like Phoenix Audio Nice DI for example.

[Jbassist]

I heard alot of people running their synths through a SPL goldmike, maybe thats an option.

Btw, deltam... whats your thoughts on just the 2 tubes in the SPL? isn't that just to make it seem better cooler or are they realy contributing something?

[DrDeltaM]

The SPL Goldmike is pretty fine actually. Not a stellar unit, but they often go much cheaper then their orginal price (original was like 1000euro), which makes them a good deal. It's one of the better cheap tube units for sure.

If you just need DI, I'd go for a dedicated DI unit which will be higher quality for your money.

[T.RayBullard]

if you can squeeze out two more bills, the DAV BG-1 is a world class pre for ANY price.

[mosrite]

if you can squeeze out two more bills, the DAV BG-1 is a world class pre for ANY price

I second that

[mosrite]

Ah, but I seem to remember that it doesnt have Line Inputs. Could be a problem if your main application for it is with your synths etc. Something with a variable valve input stage might work in your application to give you different colours / textures etc

[JohnNy C]

Wow, some great recommendations here. I need something that won't get old on many different sources on the same recording. The DAV sounds frigen sweet but alittle out of the price range. But if it is as good as I have been reading, I can eventually squeeze it after I make some other purchases.

The Phoenix Audio Nice DI seems like it would fit nicely into my application.

What do you guys think of the FMR Audio Really Nice Preamp?

And any other suggestions you guys have.

[Jbassist]

Deltam: thanks for the info man

and johnnyc: maybe 2 Groovetubes: the brick?

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by JohnNy C

Ok, I need two channels of Pre to sweeten my synths up when tracking to Protools through my Onyx. I am on a budget of $500 for two channels. As I said, it will be used for very little mic work, but more for synths and samplers. Thanks.

What do you mean by "sweeten up?"

Right now, you're talking about a lot of mic pres and DI's. Stuff to either bring a mic level signal up to line-level, which doesn't make sense at all for synths ... or DI's, which are really more for impedence-matching.

What the heck are you even trying to do, anyway? It's like you've got this synth, but it's somehow not "sweet" enough for you? Do you think there's some sort of fairy, inside these DI boxes and Mic Pres you're looking at, who's going to sprinkle a bunch of pixie dust on your signal on it's way to your recording medium? If so, I gotta' get me one of dem dare fairies.

Seriously, though. I don't get it. Whatever it is you're hoping to do, I think you're looking down the wrong path ... unless your goal is simply to be a slut and spend some money. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
.

[DrDeltaM]

Well, some pre-amps color, same for some DI's. The DI on my Phoenix DRS-2 (Nice DI is same) defenately has an impact on the sound in a good way compared to the DI input of my Fireface which sounds more sterile and thin.

[JohnNy C]

Moonunit, Delta just pretty much answered your question. If I can get a decent DI that can color things in a good way going through my not so good sounding MBox 2, then that is what I am going after. But hey, if you find that fairy with the sonic pixie dust, PM right away.

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

Well, some pre-amps color, same for some DI's. The DI on my Phoenix DRS-2 (Nice DI is same) defenately has an impact on the sound in a good way compared to the DI input of my Fireface which sounds more sterile and thin.

[moon_unit]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy in to this whole idea of running a synth through something to make it sound better, or coloring it in any useful way. Particularly in the budget range ... although I can think of plenty of ways you can degrade your signal quality, or perhaps to radically alter the sound via compression, effects or distortion/amp modeling.

It should sound great coming straight out of the synth (straight from the line outs to the line ins of your recording device), and if it doesn't, then you need a new synth or better samples or both.

.

[JohnNy C]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy in to this whole idea of running a synth through something to make it sound better, or coloring it in any useful way. Particularly in the budget range ... although I can think of plenty of ways you can degrade your signal quality, or perhaps to radically alter the sound via compression, effects or distortion/amp modeling.

It should sound great coming straight out of the synth (straight from the line outs to the line ins of your recording device), and if it doesn't, then you need a new synth or better samples or both.

.

So then your theory should hold true for a microphone as well. It should sound great coming straight out of the mic and into the input on your interface.. But that isn't the case now is it. I didn't buy into anythign either, I was asking opinions of people that are obviously very knowledgale on this site, if there is a device that will put line-level synths and such in a different area (sonically) when recording. Apparently the guys above are convinced that there is a device that can do this.

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by JohnNy C

So then your theory should hold true for a microphone as well. It should sound great coming straight out of the mic and into the input on your interface.. But that isn't the case now is it.

No, because it's not even at line level yet.

Really bad analogy.

You sure you're an audio engineer?

[by-tor]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

knowledgale

something about a first stone.......

[JohnNy C]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

No, because it's not even at line level yet.

Really bad analogy.

I can't believe you're an audio engineer.



Yea, and they're all very knowledgale, too.

Whoa man, I am not attacking you at all. I am just saying you jumped on my thread with nothing positive to say and started spiting some bullshit. It seemed the guys above had no problem contributing something very knowledgable. Now run along and go sell.

[moon_unit]

I'm not trying to spread bullshit on this thread.

I'm actually trying to clear up the bullshit. Something you don't seem to be interested in, which is fine. But someone else reading this thread might be, so my comments are really directed more at him/her.
.

[JohnNy C]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

I'm not trying to spread bullshit on this thread.

I'm actually trying to clear up the bullshit. Something you don't seem to be interested in, which is fine. But someone else reading this thread might be, so my comments are really directed more at him/her.
.

Ahh, now you've cleared it all up for us.

So jbass saying the following:

"I heard alot of people running their synths through a SPL goldmike, maybe thats an option."

Is a bunch of bullshit?

And DeltaM recommending Phoenix Audio DI is all bullshit.

And what T.Ray said was all bullshit?

Hmm, that's alot of bullshit that was said before you came in to this conversation. Thank goodness you came along.

[warhead]

Moon, it seems the sound he is seeking is that of a nice sounding pair of transformers and not something to bring up the level.

War

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by JohnNy C

So jbass saying the following:

"I heard alot of people running their synths through a SPL goldmike, maybe thats an option."

Is a bunch of bullshit?

You're the audio engineer, so you tell me. The dude just told you to run your synth in to a microphone preamplifier. That would be like me telling you to wash your socks in a blender, or to toast your bread in a dishwasher.

Unless your synth has some sort of "microphone output" that I wasn't aware of ... in which case, please accept my apology.

And DeltaM recommending Phoenix Audio DI is all bullshit.

That one actually might not be a bad idea, albeit a bit expensive, and overkill for what you need.

And what T.Ray said was all bullshit?

DAV-1? Again, that would be a great suggestion .... if you actually needed a microphone preamplifier. But I'm still looking for the "keyboard input" on the thing ... Heck, I'd even settle for a "line in," but no such luck yet. It still has that whole "XLR" thing with phantom power. Grrr! !

Hmm, that's alot of bullshit that was said before you came in to this conversation.

Ain't life a bitch?
.

[branas]

I'm still relatively new to all of this, but to my ears I didn't do too bad with buying this 2 channel mic pre for $499 (your indicated price range)

http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm

The name is a little cheesy, but it definitely sounds way better than the stock pre's on my digi002 (I know that's not saying a whole lot).

[I <3 The Beatle]

Maybe look at the Radial stuff

[Acoustic Cloud]

Hey Johnny and moon,

Besides the fact that I smoke you both on guitar, both of you are right in your posts. (lol, j/k)

Now, looking at the top. I forgot to capitalize moons name, and not johnnys. That was un-intentional. Saying that, my girlfriend would probably snap, if that disrespect was directed to her....

"Moon".......there... ehe

You are both right, IMO...the flaming is fun to look at, and watch. But I think both you actually know "stuff".

[jslevin]

Four thoughts.

(1) This entire thread is almost completely bullshit, as threads on the subject of "what magic box can I buy to sweeten my turdy sounds" will tend to be.

(2) To the extremely small extent that this thread is not bullshit, the Radial stuff is probably your best bet.

(3) At risk of losing all credibility, I personally think the little instrument input switch on the Mackie Onyx sounds kind of nice, in the limited moments I've tried it, which was for PA and not for recording. So YM most certainly MV.

(4) I'm pretty sure if you asked T.Ray what kind of puppy to buy for your kids, he'd tell you to save up for a DAV preamp instead.

Engagement ring for your girlfriend? How about a DAV preamp?

Need a new dentist? How about a DAV preamp?

Are you lonely? Looking for nice girls in your town? How about a DAV preamp?

JSL

[DrDeltaM]

Mmm, this is leading nowhere... Hope JohnNy C still found enough usefull info in this thread to help him out

In short: what you need for synths with unbalanced outputs to record them into a +4dB line balanced input is: a DI to make the signal balanced, and a gain make-up to get it to the right level.

The DI can be a small stand-alone box (without gain make-up stage), needing a mic pre-amp for gain make-up.

The DI can be build into a mic-pre-amp unit, using the that one for gain make-up.

The DI can be a standalone unit, with build in gain make-up, without being pre-amp as well, like the Phoenix Nice DI.

A DI itself will usually not color much, it's the gain make-up stage that does that.

[rasp]

I thought the Onyx had really great preamps???

Do you mean coloration? Something distinct? I've heard a lot of good things about the Avalon U5.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by JohnNy C

Ok, I need two channels of Pre to sweeten my synths up when tracking to Protools through my Onyx. I am on a budget of $500 for two channels. As I said, it will be used for very little mic work, but more for synths and samplers. Thanks.

Originally Posted by jslevin

(2) To the extremely small extent that this thread is not bullshit, the Radial stuff is probably your best bet.

Radial's stuff is clean and he's asking for his sound to change. If you've ever heard the output section of any Phoenix Audio device you'd realize that

Originally Posted by DrDeltaM

Maybe just get a dual channel DI? Something like Phoenix Audio Nice DI for example.

is the guy who knows what he hears.

War

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by JohnNy C

Ok, I need two channels of Pre to sweeten my synths up when tracking to Protools through my Onyx. I am on a budget of $500 for two channels. As I said, it will be used for very little mic work, but more for synths and samplers. Thanks.

There are other options beside preamps to colour your synths before getting into you daw, so if you don't really need to amplify a microphone i'd suggest you look into those.

I've been playing with my brand new RNLA lately and it can give lots of edge and colouration to my synths and modules, but ofcourse you are compressing then... and it sounds a bit dirty but i love that!

Stuff with tubes in it could give you some sweetness but don't expect wonders, check out the Spl and TL audio stuff.

Also consider using a good analog eq before recording, that too could give a sound wich is almost impossible to achieve inside your daw

good luck, Tommy

[mavertron]

ive never flamed on a forum in my life, but you sir, are a dink.fuuck

i think the rnla / compressor suggestion is good for sweetening / dirtying synths.

dats all.