Need Jack of all Trades mics in 3k budget

[chessparov]

Within LDC's, put the Studio Projects CS series in your shortlist.

It's been said there's a B stock clearance going on with these with them for about $200 lately. Whether or not it's still happening, these are excellent neutral-ish LDC's.

In dynamics, I'd include a number of Electro-Voice RE50's, the shockmounted
version of the "sleeper" mic extraordinaire EV 635a.

If I were starting fresh, these two microphone (CS/RE50) would be the FIRST microphones bought before any other ones.
(Unless I could pony up for a AEA R84 and a Pearlman TM-1-over 4.5K!)

Chris

[gravyface]

SM57 x4 ($300 snare, everything)
Audix D6 ($125, kick, upright bass)
Line Audio CM3 x2 ($2000, everything, stereo pair)
CAD M179 x4 ($600, everything)

[ObiK]

Originally Posted by gravyface

SM57 x4 ($300 snare, everything)
Audix D6 ($125, kick, upright bass)
Line Audio CM3 x2 ($2000, everything, stereo pair)
CAD M179 x4 ($600, everything)

I'd replace the D6 and a 57 or two for a SM7B.

[CannibalApe]

Does anyone know of a good retailer of the Line Audio Cm3's?

Thanks!

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by ObiK

I'd replace the D6 and a 57 or two for a SM7B.

Maybe, but they require a lot of gain and he didn't really mention vocals.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by CannibalApe

Does anyone know of a good retailer of the Line Audio Cm3's?

Thanks!

Just order direct.

[Strange Leaf]

Originally Posted by gravyface

SM57 x4 ($300 snare, everything)
Audix D6 ($125, kick, upright bass)
Line Audio CM3 x2 ($2000, everything, stereo pair)
CAD M179 x4 ($600, everything)

The CM3's are 990 sek / piece which would be about $142 per piece, and not $1000.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by Strange Leaf

The CM3's are 990 sek / piece which would be about $142 per piece, and not $1000.

Doh how'd I miss that...

[gouge]

2x akg c414 or 2x oktava modified nt2a if you can find some cheap nt2a's second hand.
re-20
4x oktava mod mxl603 or 2x mxl603 modified plus 2x mk-012
beyer m201
beyer m88

personally i'd forget talk of sm57 mics when you are wanting to record jazz and classical.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by gouge

2x akg c414 or 2x oktava modified nt2a if you can find some cheap nt2a's second hand.
re-20
4x oktava mod mxl603 or 2x mxl603 modified plus 2x mk-012
beyer m201
beyer m88

personally i'd forget talk of sm57 mics when you are wanting to record jazz and classical.

SM57s are cheap, can take an SPL and physical beating. the Beyers are probably a good choice too, but I don't know how well they stand up to abuse like we all know the 57s do.

For modding? I don't know, I would think the school would want to stick to retail chains/suppliers for support reasons and "modding one (1) microphone" might look shady on a line item.

[gouge]

^ should be ok with the modded mics as they come premodded from the oktavamod shop. all except the nt2a that is.

plus they have a 5 year warranty.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by gouge

^ should be ok with the modded mics as they come premodded from the oktavamod shop. all except the nt2a that is.

plus they have a 5 year warranty.

Cool. Now that I think about this and the myriad of options available, I'm actually in favor of the OP getting a handful of mics now (perhaps a matched pair of SDCs) and seeing what works, what doesn't, learn the gear, learn the rooms, learn the source(s) before blowing your wad on a bunch of mics now. Even if it means getting a credit at a local reputable shop, Musician's Friend, Guitar Center, B&H or something.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

for orchestral work a decent pair of SDs is a great place to start, with a couple of spot mics. I went from AKG 451s to Neumann 84s, 83s, and AKG C-28s and 26es. The symphony and show halls that I worked in carry DPA and Schoeps. My own preference is to have three of these, though a pair will work.

I like to have something like a 441, 421, Beyer M-88, RE 20 or SM7 around. I've got 421s and M-88s. Great spot mics, can double as solo vocal mics.

It never hurts to have a pair of 414s for orchestral work.

If you buy used, the 451s run about $350 each, 414s around $500 each, and the prices for the dynamics are under $500.

You can put together a small quality mic collection for your purposes for $3k. Can you substitute some of these budget Chinese offerings and still get the same quality? I don't know. They seem to work okay for guys in basements close-micing rock bands, but I've never used one for orchestral work. It is a different ballgame, the sound field is different, the rooms are significantly different, and I've never seen a classical recordist proudly show me a Chinese mic that he used to make an amazing recording. I'd tread carefully in those waters.

[AldenW]

I think Bill is giving some good advice. That's the direction I'd go.

[gouge]

could possibly add a pair or 2 of AT 4051 mics to the list of sdc options.

[theteach]

You don't say what level of school you are buying these for. I teach in a high school and I would buy mics less based on the sound you will get from them and more on how rugged they are. It is my experience in a high school that the equipment must stand up to a beating. That said I would choose sm 57 x4 $400, AKG C 1000 x4 $800, Avantone CV-12 x2 $1000. I like ribbons on strings but I don't think this would be smart in a school setting. I think this would give you a nice balance of rugged mics. Don't be afraid to use 57s. I think often if placed correctly with a decent preamp they can be better than a cheap LDC.

[CannibalApe]

Originally Posted by theteach

You don't say what level of school you are buying these for. I teach in a high school and I would buy mics less based on the sound you will get from them and more on how rugged they are. It is my experience in a high school that the equipment must stand up to a beating. That said I would choose sm 57 x4 $400, AKG C 1000 x4 $800, Avantone CV-12 x2 $1000. I like ribbons on strings but I don't think this would be smart in a school setting. I think this would give you a nice balance of rugged mics. Don't be afraid to use 57s. I think often if placed correctly with a decent preamp they can be better than a cheap LDC.

Sorry, I probably should have clarified. This is going to be at the college/professional level.

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by CannibalApe

Sorry, I probably should have clarified. This is going to be at the college/professional level.

I think I'd still lean towards ruggedness vs. expensive, high-end. Bill's answer is probably the "correct" answer for quality of work, but I'm assuming this is for reference material, learning tools, etc. vs. I need to knock the socks off my clients to put food on the table.

I know at my college's audio/recording arts department they use AT2020s and 57s pretty much everywhere because they're rugged and cheaply replaced for when they get dropped, stolen, etc.

[ObiK]

Originally Posted by gravyface

Maybe, but they require a lot of gain and he didn't really mention vocals.

True, I just feel they are more well rounded than the D6. Plus 57's are cheap enough to add down the road if not needed right away.

[Jungle Jazz]

Because this is for an educational environment, where you will presumably not only be recording music but also learning recording techniques, I'm going to suggest you consider starting your mic collection by getting a good pair of SDCs and a good multi-pattern pair of LDCs. The OP stated that the main purpose will be to record various acoustic classical music groups, and then possibly other types of music or configurations. With that in mind, I'll suggest the following.

SDC

I would recommend either the Beyerdynamic MC930 or the Shure KSM141. Either mic will give you a quality sound at a reasonable price. The KSM141 has the extra benefit of being dual pattern--cardioid and omni--but the Beyer is also well-suited for classical work. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

LDC

I would recommend some AKG C414 variation or the Shure KSM44. I personally had a bad experience with the AKG C414B XLS, as my pair had real sloppy pattern definitions, but the most recent iteration might be better.

A pair of multi-pattern mics will allow you experiment with various stereo techniques--X/Y, mid-side, Blumlein, ORTF, etc.--which can provide students with a solid understanding of how microphones hear, and all are appropriate for classical music work. Depending on the room and source, you could combine a pair of SDCs with LDC spots, or you could use an LDC main pair with SDC spots.

While the Shure KSM line may not the most popular on these forums, they are solid mics, just like Shure's stage mics, so they ought to be rugged enough for a school environment, where accidents, while unintentional, are bound to happen. I'd suggest taking a look at them.

[Gretsch 6120]

Hi, it’s been many years since I was in college, but at one point in my life I helped broker gear acquisitions for our university and for two of the public schools where I eventually taught music.

That said, since you’re purchasing this for the university I would suggest buying local and establishing a working relationship with a local vendor. Many local vendors will offer deep discounts to schools and universities because they know the likelihood of repeat business is very high. It’s also nice to be able to pick up the phone and call someone who you can put a name with a face to if there is a problem or if you need something else in the future. In every acquisition case I was personally involved with, the local vendor/s matched or outright beat the big online store prices. So, that’s just something to consider.

For 3k you have a lot of options. As a prosumer guy who just records in his room, with mostly budget gear, on his own limited time, I’m all about aftermarket mods, inexpensive alternatives, and unknown brands; however, with your budget and the fact this is on the university’s dime, I would stick with well known and well-established brands like Shure, Audix, and Neumann. These are mainstay companies that aren’t going out of business anytime soon, and for the university, brand stability should understandably be a consideration. Ten or Twenty years from now those mics may need servicing, and companies like Shure and Neumann will do that, which will save the university money in the long run.

Right off the bat, I would get some Shure sm 57s and 58s to cover the dynamic category. You could probably afford to throw in a SM7b too, depending on how many dynamic mics you need and how much the other mics are going to eat through your budget. Also consider that the 57s, 58s and SM7b will come in handy for the university’s live performances, as well as recording projects. I would then seriously consider the Shure KSM series for the LDC—perhaps a KSM44 and/or a KSM32. Then I would consider a pair of Shure SM 81s for stereo SDCs.

Anyway, those are just some safe bets for a starting point. A 3k budget is more than adequate to establish a very respectable and functional mic locker IMO.

Good luck,

Chris

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by CannibalApe

Hi everyone,
We have $3000 dollars left over in our budget exclusively for mics. We are going to be recording a lot of classical music at our school. Solo instrumentalists, duos, quartets, possibly orchestra, jazz combos etc. It is going to be all on location at the school and a lot of the rooms sound good. We aren't going to be doing rock music. If anyone can suggest any mics that are reasonably priced but can handle many situations I would be very grateful.

Thanks!

Mics are the most important parts of the recording chain. Do not cheap out. A 3k budget will get you some mics you'll keep for life. So think of it as an investment. I would recommend

1 Peluso P12 - $1300

1 Beezneez lulu fet stereo pair - $1200

2 telefunken m81 - $500

those 5 mics will do everything you want to do. If you're willing to buy used..then there's a plethora of choices in your budget. I would put AKG 414's in the mix.

[gouge]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz

SDC

I would recommend either the Beyerdynamic MC930 or the Shure KSM141. Either mic will give you a quality sound at a reasonable price. The KSM141 has the extra benefit of being dual pattern--cardioid and omni--but the Beyer is also well-suited for classical work. I don't think you could go wrong with either.
.

as a side note the 141 is next on my personal shopping list.

[rty5150]

I like adk mics, too.

[D_T_Music]

Am I the only one who's confused by this thread and it's corresponding responses???

you want a jack of all trades in the 3k price range? Low end theory?

3k can buy a WHOLE lot of microphone if done right....

[Stuart Coleco]

Originally Posted by D_T_Music

Am I the only one who's confused by this thread and it's corresponding responses???

you want a jack of all trades in the 3k price range? Low end theory?

3k can buy a WHOLE lot of microphone if done right....

yeah, people recommending 57's and chinese condensors etc. is a bit laughable. Maybye they think a K is some sort of foriegn currency that translates to hundreds instead of thousands. Maybe they didn't read the OP or didn't understand what orchestra jazz and choral means... or have no clue on how to approach recording an orchestra..

[gravyface]

Originally Posted by Stuart Coleco

yeah, people recommending 57's and chinese condensors etc. is a bit laughable. Maybye they think a K is some sort of foriegn currency that translates to hundreds instead of thousands. Maybe they didn't read the OP or didn't understand what orchestra jazz and choral means... or have no clue on how to approach recording an orchestra..

Or maybe some of us understand that they're not tracking the London Philharmonic at the Queen's jubilee? And maybe some of us have been to a college recording industry arts program and seen how often the gear ends up lost/stolen/mangled?

[Wattie1096]

I've been on the college side of an A/V department and have worked on many projects including jazz, choral and orchestral both live and recording. I've recently been able to start using that knowledge again and have been securing some local ethnic ensembles as clients.

I don't know why people are laughing at the suggestion of the SM57. The OP needs a general purpose workhorse and these function perfectly both live and in a recording situation. I'd look at the "kits" that are sold, I remember seeing a package that consisted of 4 57's and 2 58's all in a nice hard case for under $600 new, direct.

I would then look at a pair of LDC's and a pair of SDC's as well as a contact mic; I have used a contact with great success recording small jazz combo's in an institutional "sound room." Preferably get a pair of LDC's with multiple patterns/modes and a set of SDC's with changeable capsules; you can get a lot of bang for your buck with a pair of each, and with a small box of dynamics should easily be able to cover any situation for under $3K.

I've captured performances by several different groups/ensembles that have been aired live using nothing but 57's/58's and sometimes a pair of room mics and have never had anyone complain of the sound quality.

Just my humble .02 cents

[Igotsoul4u]

I have seen a big time classical engineer use the oktava's on every session we did with him. maybe some used 414's (no xlII or tlII) or some neumann KM183's.