Alternatives to the SM7

[kidvybes]

...while it doesn't sound exactly like an SM7, my favorite alternate choice is the mid-forward KEL HM-2D ($199)...it's a condenser mic voiced like a dynamic broadcast mic (SM7, RE20)...it has a fairly flat response with no top-end boost like many typical LDC mics, yet it has a bit more "air" than the SM7...and it doesn't require the higher gain that the SM7 needs (60+dB)...
HM-2D - Kel Audio Microphones
http://www.zenproaudio.com/kelaudiohm-2dmicrophone.aspx

...another dynamic mic that has a voicing similar to the SM7 is the older Beyerdynamic M400 MKII Soundstar...these handheld dynamic mics can be found on eBay on occasion, and offer a nice full-bodied tonality that is reminiscent of the SM7...

...on the other hand, I've tried the Heil PR40, and do not recommend it for vocal duties...sounds thin and edgy on many voices...

...IMHO, the KEL HM-2D offers the best value, in a mid-forward LDC vocal mic...

...if you want a really inexpensive dynamic mic ($25) that is surprisingly good for the price, check out this review for the Prodipe TT1 dynamic handheld mic...it's one drawback is it's susceptibility to popping, so either a foam pop-filter (for live use) or a pop-screen for recording will tame the problem:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct1...rodipe-tt1.htm

...with free shipping from Buy.com:
http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?s...lerid=21410344

[MichaelR1]

People say an sm57 w/o transformer, or with mod sounds alot like an sm7, which makes sense as they are the same capsule.

Michael

[guitarboy94]

Originally Posted by MichaelR1

People say an sm57 w/o transformer, or with mod sounds alot like an sm7, which makes sense as they are the same capsule.

Michael

Not really. I owned both at one point...Kept the SM7b. The SM7b just has this big, thick sound going on. The transformerless 57 is smooth, but not as beefy and full sounding as the SM7b. I've tried the Soundstar as well. It's basically a smoother sounding SM57. It does have more top end presence going on..sort of like the SM7b with the irritating presence boost switch I don't like. I've tried the Heil PR30 and PR40 as well. Like KidV said, sounded pretty thin and bright on vocals. Hated both of them on vocals.

However, the Kel HM2d sounds really, really close to an SM7b. I mean REALLY close. I own both. If you have a good sounding room, get the Kel. It's got a little more air to it. However, if your room is like my room (untreated), the SM7b has yet to get beaten by any other mic that's been suggested on this site. Trust me, I've tried them all. My mic buying days are over.

[danerius]

Theres absolutely no method involved in this, no A/B-ing or proper testing. But yesterday, while doin some vocal tracking. I unscrewed the head of a SM58 and positioned my regular spit stopper in front. I thought it sounded a bit more open, natural and simply better. But maybe I sang a bit differently?

Given that the original pop filter in the SM58 is designed to withstand several kilos of saliva for hours on end, night after night. Im guessing it could muffle the audio a bit. Not to mention all the salivishy gunk build up in the filter over time. It will affect the sound. I got the idea when I learned that the SM7 is a 57 capsule with a different body

Could propably work with a 57 as well but the head on mine head is jammed. Cant get it off. But if anyone feels like doin a proper test with a 58 and/or 57? Id love to hear what u think?

Regards /Bo

[Kaiborg]

Originally Posted by danerius

Theres absolutely no method involved in this, no A/B-ing or proper testing. But yesterday, while doin some vocal tracking. I unscrewed the head of a SM58 and positioned my regular spit stopper in front. I thought it sounded a bit more open, natural and simply better. But maybe I sang a bit differently?

Given that the original pop filter in the SM58 is designed to withstand several kilos of saliva for hours on end, night after night. Im guessing it could muffle the audio a bit. Not to mention all the salivishy gunk build up in the filter over time. It will affect the sound. I got the idea when I learned that the SM7 is a 57 capsule with a different body

Could propably work with a 57 as well but the head on mine head is jammed. Cant get it off. But if anyone feels like doin a proper test with a 58 and/or 57? Id love to hear what u think?

Regards /Bo

Funny you mention this, as I agree completely. I have a SM58s that I've been using in-studio for over a decade, and I essentially chucked the windscreen long, long ago. It does sound a lot more "open" like that.

[LimpyLoo]

Originally Posted by MichaelR1

which makes sense as they are the same capsule.

Michael

Where did you get this information?

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by MichaelR1

People say an sm57 w/o transformer, or with mod sounds alot like an sm7, which makes sense as they are the same capsule.

Michael

...similar, yes...the same, no...

...from recordinghacks.com:
Shure SM57 | RecordingHacks.com

"Is the SM57 the same as an SM7?
The SM7 capsule, like the SM57/SM58 capsule, is based on the “Unidyne III” capsule design, yet it is not identical to the SM57/SM58 capsule. The SM7 capsule is p/n RPM106; the SM57 capsule is p/n R57."

...from the Shure website:
http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2002

"Is it true that both the SM7 (all verisons) and the SM57/58 employ the same capsule, hence sound very similar?
The SM7, the SM57, and the SM58 are all based on the Unidyne III capsule design. The SM7 capsule is not identical to the SM57 or SM58, but it is similar. The SM7 also has a larger acoustical chamber behind the mic element, and this extends the low frequency response."

[GovrCheeze]

You guys are so awesome...i usually get an answer to any question within a day or two, and this was within hours!

Its funny that one of the first replys mentioned the Kel Hm-2D...Because before i came here this morning, i was reading about it and was going to post a question asking if its simmilar to Sm7b, but before i could ask SEVERAL people went over it!

I think this is the one for me, as i am half-canadian and will be visiting toronto over summer. It seems if you buy in canada, you get a better price. And this mic is exactly what i was looking for: something like the Sm7b but that gives you a little more at that price point...So i think i have found my answer. Also, thanks for all the info on the HEiL mic's!

Since i got my answer, anyone want to suggest a budget off-shore ribbon mic that i can get just to have one in the studio? There's some nice cheap one's online out of China but if someone can help narrow the search, that would be great. Can't drop a lot on it since i'm about to buy this Kel mic AND the Baby Bottle, so it would have to be around $250-300 MAXIMUM!

What ever happened to the Samson ribbon mic? Got good reviews and then discontinued?!

-Jordan

PS: about my room - it is SMALL (20' long, 14' wide and abt 10' high...but i have treated it with diffusion and absorption panels as well as dividing the room about 3/4ths of the way lengthwise to create a separate nook for the computer and console, basically the space-station. I angled the dividing wall so the room is no longer rectangular. So i think i have a good combination of a relatively dead room but with enough ambeince to sound natural, not boxy.

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by GovrCheeze

I think this is the one for me, as i am half-canadian and will be visiting toronto over summer. It seems if you buy in canada, you get a better price.

...same $199 price in the US from Zen Audio (with free shipping!)...link was in my previous post...

Originally Posted by GovrCheeze

Since i got my answer, anyone want to suggest a budget off-shore ribbon mic that i can get just to have one in the studio?

...I've had a few of the Chinese ribbon mics, and the one I liked best was the Apex 205 (under $100)...pretty sweet right outta the box!

[Gono]

I haven't read all the posts but, the Electro Voice RE-20 to me is the same idea as the SM7 and was designed for essentially the same purposes.

Might be something to look into...

Electro-Voice RE20 Broadcast Announcer Microphone w/ Variable-D

[Bradahman]

Do yourself a favor and pay the extra 50 bucks to get the SM7. It's not much all and it is used in top studios for reason. No brainer really.

[danerius]

Originally Posted by Bradahman

Do yourself a favor and pay the extra 50 bucks to get the SM7. It's not much all and it is used in top studios for reason. No brainer really.

Extra 50 bucks....? Id like to shop there? The SM7 is just about four times the price of a SM57 here...!

Regards /Bo

[Bradahman]

Originally Posted by danerius

Extra 50 bucks....? Id like to shop there? The SM7 is just about four times the price of a SM57 here...!

Regards /Bo

In the OP, he questions a similar sounding mic for something less than $300. A new one costs $349, hence the extra 50 bucks comment.

[danerius]

Sorry. Missed rhat

[chessparov]

Lots of good suggestions here...

Govt, you may be be referring to my comments about the Beta 57a, in another of your threads. Weeeell it won't "just" like a SM7, but the cool thing is that the 57a (or 58a) Beta-like a SM7-takes EQing/effects processing like a champ.

Having said that, however, IMHO if it's for self-recording vocals an EV RE20 (or RE15/16), or EV 635a/RE50 are easier choices. Due to either being variable-D (minimize proximity effect) or omni (635a/RE50) microphones.

Chris

P.S. Agree mostly with the Soundstar (the one that looks like a 58) comments, but that
frequency response works A-1 on my voice.

[GovrCheeze]

WOW - So much good advice and even a little bit of bickering which always helps show the detailed positiong of two arguments so a third party (like myself) can better judge if they want to side with one of the arguments.

So I read what you said about the extra $50 bucks, but after finding the Kel Hm-2D, it would be $150 more for the Sm7b, and i think the hm-2d is exactly what i was looking for in my original description: something LIKE the sm7b but with a few extras so i can use it on other sources.

No, i am not using to record my own vocals and the RE is too expensive. Even the discounted cheap black version is more than i want to spend on one mic with a limited range.

Yes, i was talking about your post on the Beta 57 coupled with pre amp to get it sounding simmilar to sm7b, and i typed 'beta' in my original post. So all the nonsense about the SM57 is completely off base and i just ignored it.

So Kel designed this mic to sound like the sm7b and RE mic's, but by using a condenser they get a little more highs without any eq hype. If i felt the ultra highs were not needed, i could just eq them out. To my mind, its a lot easier to eq stuff OUT than it is to try and boost it IN later (Subtractive EQ).

Anyway, for the money, i can get the Kel now and when i have extra money later, get the more purpose specific Sm7b and EV RE mic's. One thing that helped tip the scales aside from price was my intended use for the mic. If there has been any confusing in this thread, let me clear it up now:

I have a project studio and the mic is for male rock vox. I wanted a darker, 'mid-focused' mic to complement my AT3035 which serves well as an all around vocal mic, but excels in the higher frequencies and hence is not too good for the ooomph i need for male rock vox. If i get the Kel, it will not only do the job until i can afford to get the pricier big brothers, but because my intended use is predominantly male vox, its good that it is side address and sits in a shock mount. Believe me, i don't care at all what a mic looks like if its good, but most of my clients dont really know about mics aside from limited stuff about Neuman (and they usually pronounce it wrong), but some vocalists would look at the structure of the SM7B and trip out even if i showed them pictures of their favorite singers using it...because they have seen the pretty side address vocal mics in magazines and they want to sing into that. Its ridiculous, but its reality.

Also, the mic will be useful for other stuff, esp. kick drum and guitar amp. I think it will do well in front of a guitar to pick up the fat, meaty low mids and capture high glimmer (because remember, unlike the Sm7B and its counterparts, this has a bit more of a clear sparkle in the ultra highs). I would pair it with an SM57 for the 'honky' mids, maybe my AT3035 for a clean LDC sound, and either an e609 if it needed more in the area between the Sm57 and the Kel, or an MD421 if it needed more low mid.

What does everyone think? Remember, i'm not thinking this is going to be a clone of the SM7B, but it will do what i need it to, which is to be an alternative darker mic from my clear, crisp AT. For vocals, yes i will use it where in many cases an SM7 is used, but i will also realize it has differences and will work w the signal chain to get what i need. For instruments, i feel the Kel offers me more versatility than the SM7B, and while i really do want the original - i can put it off for a while and make due with this.

[GovrCheeze]

by the way, thank you all again. So many of you are very generous, selfless people who truly have a passion for audio and talking about it. Its sad that there are so many secretive, selfish engineers/producers out there who so fear for their own monetary income, they don't offer advise or worse, they offer MISINFORMATION to intentionally cause problems for beginners and peers alike. You can tell when those people are in here because sharing knowledge is always a competition for them, and they turn everything into a fight and usually only post when they want to say "NO - YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT THAT...HERE'S WHATS RIGHT, AND BTW: YOUR STUPID."

[GovrCheeze]

PPS: With regards to cheap ribbon mics, what about the Recording Tools MRP-01...and what about the Recording Tools company in general? They are the new oktava?

[GhettoMount]

I can't say anything about the company, but for a well-strung, passive ribbon with surprising highs, good sensitivity, freedom from hum, and symmetrical figure-of-eight pattern, do check out the MRP-01. I was pleased after having rebuilt a few inexpensive imports to find no need to open these at all. The only thing I didn't like is that for Blumlein, I have to use an 85 degree spread due to their pattern being a slightly narrower "8", causing a reduced center stage sensitivity if set 90 degrees apart. Maybe it's just me, I can't say. They are lightweight compared with some other low-cost ribbons, which matters if you mount a pair on a high stand near an audience.

Originally Posted by GovrCheeze

PPS: With regards to cheap ribbon mics, what about the Recording Tools MRP-01...and what about the Recording Tools company in general? They are the new oktava?

[Frank_Case]

An alternative to the SM7B....

Beyerdynamic M88. Used < $300.

Beyerdynamic M69. Used about $125-150.

[heyokay]

I swapped my SM7 for a Sennheiser MD 441. In my opinion it is a much better microphone in almost every way. Definitely one to contemplate...

[nevefreak]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

An alternative to the SM7B....

Beyerdynamic M88. Used < $300.

Beyerdynamic M69. Used about $125-150.

sm7 is rather flat comparatively to m69 and to a smaller degree M88

don't get me wrong m69/88 are awesome but at 1/2 inch from the source m69 is a very very hifi mic, very hifi. it can be very sibilant on vocals and on guitar cabs it can be very very aggressive in in the lows and upper fizz range.

It is the ultimate mic for scooped distorted guitars!!! But if you want a traditional midrange focused guitar tone it is perhaps not the best mic. I love it since I hate midrange but I've recorded a few blues guitar players and they hated it
it was too metal sounding

I think a modded 57 is much more like a sm7, than these these beyers. Take out the 57 transformer.

Another option is re20, a tad boring compared to sm7 but similar in many respects. there are some other mics,
look at heil and some AT mics

[guitarboy94]

You definitely should check out the Kel Hm2d condenser mic. It's got the voicing and character of the SM7 (smooth, rolled off highs, thick and punchy), but also has a more open, detailed sound. I often go back and forth as to which mic I like better, but at the moment, I've really, really been digging on my Kel Hm2d on vocals after adding some acoustic treatment in my space. You can get the Kel HM2d brand new for 165 dollars shipped from SonicFiber on ebay. It does take some high end EQ'ing as the highs are are bit rolled off. I can't say enough about how much I like the Kel Hm2d. Honestly, I think the HM2d sounds a lot less boxy than the SM7b.

[EV676]

I like the Kel mic mentioned also. At various times I've had a used one in my stash but always sold it for more than I paid for it! So if I find another one under priced on the used market.....

The Beyer M88 is especially nice, I have several from the 1980s and they sound really good especially live. It's also a popular kick drum mic and I have heard that the capsules are not kick drum proof. Again hear-say but I thought I mention it.

An M88 through a good clean pre like a TRP, True Systems or a DAV BG ! is a thing of beauty...so is an SM 57!

Good luck.

[jrides]

Originally Posted by Frank_Case

An alternative to the SM7B....

Beyerdynamic M88. Used < $300.

Beyerdynamic M69. Used about $125-150.

M88 is not just an alternative. It is an upgrade.
If I was forced to own only one dynamic... it might be this mic.
(I am glad I do not have that restriction though! Some good dynmaics out there)

[Wabana66]

Even among SM7s, there are differences...I have an older brown SM7 and a newer black SM7B and they sound quite different. The older one has a little more bottom end and less top end. The newer one brighter and thinner. I always try both whenever I decide to use it. They are both great but very different. Just sayin.....
And while we are talking about substitutes....
+1 on the KEL
+1 on the RE20
+1 on the RE16 too.....
+1 on the M88

All great mics.

[nevefreak]

Originally Posted by GovrCheeze

I have an AT3035 which has served very well for both male and female vox, but its a bit on the bright side

3035 is not bright at all, it's more neutral

what mic pre and converters are you using?