Using the preamps of a Roland Quad Capture UA-55, what under-$700 LDC/LDD (or combination of external preamp + microphone) would you recommend for the voice in this audio clip? The style of music to be tracked is similar to what is in the clip. The room is untreated so I'll probably supplement the purchase with a Reflexion Filter and other treatment.
Instruments will be software or recorded elsewhere, so this microphone will be for vocal tracking only.
Too much room sound in that recording. Sounds like you recorded across the room. First, try getting a lot closer to your mic and turning down the gain. A tight hypercardioid pattern helps in recording in a bad room. If you want to thicken up the voice, the old Groove Tubes GT67 is the thickest mic I've ever heard, while still being articulate, without the annoying Chinese high end. I revisited that mic yesterday and was thinking that that quality is just irreplaceable by any other mic. They can be had for around $350 used.
__________________ - It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ... - Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny.
- It doesn't make much difference how the paint is put on as long as something has been said. Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement.
close mic your piano and vox....The music is picking up too much of the room ...A good vocal mic would be an akg c214...or an AT4033 or maybe an sm7b....wish you the best
slaphappy: Yes, it is me in the clip. However, I regret to say I am only the vocalist--the pianist is a very talented colleague and the song is by another artist altogether. I'd love to get in a studio and produce an EP, and maybe this would be a great way to audition several mics.
kafka: I will definitely take a look at the Groove Tubes GT67.
Jimsi: I have been thinking about the C214 and the SM7b and will also add the AT4033 to the list.
Thank you everyone for the suggestions. These mics are all in a price range where I could theoretically add a preamp and still be under my budget.
I'm going to make a very large blanket statement here, so take it for what it's worth:
Your voice has a lot of squillo; a voice that cuts like that might cut sharper than a katana (in a bad way) if recorded with a cheap microphone, specifically, a cheap condenser. No one has recommended anything bad so far in my opinion.
Back to Chris:
Yours is a voice I would not be afraid to stick a dynamic microphone on. (This is where I bring out the blanket statement.) I have friends whose voices get eaten up by most dynamic microphones, and all of them have a characteristic lack of vocal "cut." Likewise, there are many friends I have who, as I described above, when mic'ed up on condensers, especially cheap ones, cut a mix or demo into little tiny bits.
Again, this isn't to say that sharp voices need dynamic mics and dull ones need condensers; it's an overgeneralization, and taken to its extreme, like all blanket statements, it's complete crap (which is why I have to acknowledge that it's an overgeneralization lest I be torn apart by other members of this forum.)
This is why I recommend anything Chris put up though; all of those microphones would be able to "handle" you, so to speak. That's not to say that they are better than any condensers (especially with $700; you could really get something amazing at that range), but I can say with rather solid confidence that any on Chris's list would work for you. In my experience, choosing a condenser microphone is a much more hands-on affair.
With that said though, the modern musical theater genre/topos involves extremely precise; clean-cut; and, oddly enough, almost mechanical singing, and is generally mixed with an enormous amount of top-end. If you do go down the dynamic route, although all the mic's would work for you out of any sort of context, do consider choosing one with an extended upper frequency response.
Thanks for the kind words Kierkes, yeah I've tried out LOTS of LCD's over the years either at the local GC (friendly terms w/the staff), or at the yearly NAMM Show in Anaheim.
Some otherwise potential giant killers, like the MXL V69 are SO wrong on my voice (gravitating towards the Isaac Hayes end of the bari spectrum BTW). Whereas stuff that was so-so a couple of years ago, like a AT4047,
sounds really cool now.
Until you hit the Studio Projects T3 tube mic, haven't heard a "brighty" LCD that I've really dug-at less then that price point. The T3 is only slightly bright to boot.
Chris
P.S. Not to sound snobby, but several of my good friends already have Neumann's U87's (one a pristine U47!), in their recording studios
so I'd probably just let them record me for anything really serious
Thanks so much for the kind words and the thorough responses. (Sorry for my lack of response; I was away working for the past 2 days.)
chessparov/Chris: Thank you for that list of dynamic microphones I should be looking at. Regarding the later comment about the brightness of the Studio Projects T3: did you mean that as something you like on yourself, or as something I should be looking at?
Kierkes: Thank you for the explanation of the potential differences between a condenser and a dynamic. Regarding your statement about picking a dynamic with an extended upper frequency response, which of the ones that Chris recommended fit this description?
mikeyman: I've never heard of that; thank you for the recommendation.
KRStudio: Thank you for the Beyer M160 recommendation. Would I need to get a separate preamp (not the Roland UA-55) to get the maximum benefit out of this microphone?
Thanks to everyone for making me aware of dynamic and ribbon microphones I should be looking at. For some reason I had been focusing on condensers but it sounds like a dynamic or ribbon might be the best choice. Also, I imagine it would help cut room noise? As Kierkes suggests, it appears picking condensers is more of a hands-on affair.
Thanks to everyone again for all your help. I've got some homework ahead of me!
Thanks so much for the kind words and the thorough responses. (Sorry for my lack of response; I was away working for the past 2 days.)
chessparov/Chris: Thank you for that list of dynamic microphones I should be looking at. Regarding the later comment about the brightness of the Studio Projects T3: did you mean that as something you like on yourself, or as something I should be looking at?
Kierkes: Thank you for the explanation of the potential differences between a condenser and a dynamic. Regarding your statement about picking a dynamic with an extended upper frequency response, which of the ones that Chris recommended fit this description?
mikeyman: I've never heard of that; thank you for the recommendation.
KRStudio: Thank you for the Beyer M160 recommendation. Would I need to get a separate preamp (not the Roland UA-55) to get the maximum benefit out of this microphone?
Thanks to everyone for making me aware of dynamic and ribbon microphones I should be looking at. For some reason I had been focusing on condensers but it sounds like a dynamic or ribbon might be the best choice. Also, I imagine it would help cut room noise? As Kierkes suggests, it appears picking condensers is more of a hands-on affair.
Thanks to everyone again for all your help. I've got some homework ahead of me!
It's a rule of thumb for me. Again, not terribly scientific.
The ones Chris suggested are pretty good, at least the ones I've used:
EV RE20 - Big fan of the RE-20 on your kind of voice. Definitely has enough up there.
EV RE16 (or RE15 if you don't mind used) - Unfortunately never tried either, but they sound fantastic! EV 635a (this one WILL set you back about $120 new) - Unbelievable microphone, nicknamed the Buchanan Hammer for it's ability to build the stage the day of the performance Funny thing is, I heard of a rumor that despite its durability, subjecting this microphone to trauma kills its HF response a bit, and from using my old 635 and my mother's 635, I could hear that hers through a Blue Icicle sounded better than mine through a DMP3. Doesn't exactly have a lot of HF response per se, but the thing takes EQ like a monster.
Sennheiser MD441 (used under $700) - Never used, heard amazing things about these. Sennheiser MD421 (get Mark I vintage-no longer in current prod - Heard a short test when I demoed it in a studio, might have been the MkII though. Still liked what I heard, but not quite as much as the RE20.e RE20.
Beyer M88 - I just hear things about things about this microphone, and hear it. It's got the whole band of response going for it; that's for sure. Beyer Soundstar (the one that looks like a SM58)-similar to EQ'D Shure SM7 - Once owned an SM7; that's for sure! Wasn't the biggest fan of how it behaved on me at the time because of my singing, but it complemented brilliant voices for sure!
+1 on the CS series. PMI is doing a B-Stock blowout, $200 for the CS5. That being said, I don't want to overwhelm with suggestions, because there really is a world of microphones out there.
I own the CS5. Recording my friend in a VERY small untreated bedroom.
Kierkes: 1.) Thank you for clarifying the recommendations. 2.) That track sounds incredible, and is basically more or less what I am trying to achieve myself. Can you share some details about how you put this together (hardware used, a little about the mix down, etc.)
Hey all! Glad you enjoyed it! Funny, I'm finding so many things I hate about the mix myself. So they say: "A mix is never finished. It is only accepted as good enough." [not sic]
I did the whole thing through a lowly TASCAM US-1641 in a completely untreated ~12x12 ft. bedroom. All the instruments are VI's, but the mixing plugins are all stock Studio One plugins save for Spitfish, the deesser.
The lead vocal was tracked with the CS5 in cardioid without any filters. The 15k low pass on the CS microphones isn't actually a low pass, but a parametric cut in the sibilance range (I think) to remove a lot of the bright sheen the microphone naturally has. I left it off because I wanted a really brilliant quality, and Rocky's voice, despite being absolutely excellent, tends to bunch up in the midrange. I can't find the original that I did with a 4033a, really made him sound quite honky. This is actually one of the friends I mentioned who gets eaten up by some dynamics coughSM58cough because of how middy his voice already is.
I didn't do very much to the vocal track. I started with a 12dB high pass at 100Hz, then lightly compressed it at 2.3:1, -25dB threshold, with a 10dB knee. Attack was 7ms and release was 70ms. I then put another EQ on, raising 200Hz 3dB at a Q of 3 for a bit of depth, 1.74k 3dB at a Q of 3 for some cut, and a 6dB/octave shelf at 8k and 5dB for air. I then threw Spitfish on there, can't recall the settings on that, because I've since moved to 64-bit and last I checked, they don't do 64-bit. A shame, it's a really special suite of free plugins.
The background vocals were actually mixed almost entirely the same. The compression is just negligibly more aggressive ratio at a slightly higher threshold. I think I made that minute adjustment to keep the BGV's just slightly more even. All three vocal tracks went to a bus that just had a large room reverb on with a 1.34 second tail at 12%. <This is actually pretty substantial reverb compared to most things I've seen.
The cello, viola, and guitar come from Kontakt. The piano comes from TruePianos (I actually never use TP to record, it's more of a playing instrument for me, but this song called for that glossy sound), and the drums are from Addictive Drums. Every VI had effects turned off so I could mix them with the S1 plugins for a bit more cohesion. Because of this, I actually had three identically set up drum instruments, soloing overheads, snare, and kick respectively. In retrospect, I should have given the toms a track too just for those two moments where I find the toms to be a bit too quiet.
Every single VI is high and low-passed very aggressively (save for the kick which lacks a high pass) to make room for the vocal to sit up top. Most instruments sound noticeably less full than without the EQ because I also removed select spots in the mids on each instrument. Basically, I wanted them to be extremely polite to the voice. This is something that took me a long time to figure out. I'm not even good at subtractive EQ yet, in my own honest opinion. Nothing has been compressed except for the drum tracks, lightly. I didn't want them to punch that much in the song; I found that the guitar strumming gave the song enough percussion.
On the master, I used the Multiband Dynamics plugin with a *gasp! preset: "Louder, slightly." I won't pretend to understand how to use them quite yet, but this brought up the mix and glued it together. I then used a limiter with a -1dB ceiling and a -1dB threshold and a release of around a quarter second. Just to keep it from going into the red. I wanted to preserve as much dynamic range as possible while keeping it listenable on crappy laptop speakers that were designed to play ceiling crashing top 40 dynamic-deficient music. I think I found a good middle ground.
PHEW!
Anyway, if someone wants to give me tips on the mix, they should PM me! I just wrote this to be helpful, especially since I am in LOVE with the CS5. I should also like to mention that this microphone is ridiculously versatile because of all its dials. It can be overwhelming, but if you know the sound you're looking for, the CS5 is basically the Focusrite Liquid Channel of microphones, haha...don't quote me on that.
If you are still looking for mic suggestions, you might want to audition a Shure KSM9, which could be used live and in studio, and it has a switchable cardioid/hyper pattern. Check out the Live from Daryl's House recordings to get a sense of what it sounds like on Daryl Hall's voice (and various guests at times). Live From Daryl's House with Daryl Hall :: Homepage
+1 on the CS5 recommendation...nice mic, no doubt...
...another interesting mic in your price range that works well on dynamically rangy voices is the new JZ Vintage 11...adds a bit of thickness to vocals while reducing high-end brightness and distortion...you can hear some soundclips (comparing it to the similarly voiced KEL HM-2D) here on a female vocalist with a very wide dynamic range...
As some may already know, always a big fan of the CS5. Just didn't post it initially mainly due to concern of the OP's sound treatment (or lack thereof).
But if starting over again, FWIW the CS5 would be my FIRST LDC bought,
along with a "vintage" SM57 (or current Beta 57a), and an EV 635a.
Chris
P.S. Thanks for the detailed post Kierkes, you've got "producer" in the blood!
Definitely re20. That and a clean preamp like the RNP would be great.
You have some serious dynamics and I love broadway style tunes. If I had your budget and needed versatility, I'd get an mxl v67i, pre-73, and an RNC to cover bases. Add some blankets to tame that room and go.
For your voice in my studio now: RE20 into my 1280b(API like) or sytek, into dbx 166 or fet comp.
You have a great voice. I'd love to have a voice like that in my booth.
I have a sm7b and ma200 and don't really think they would be good matches for that voice. Maybe at3035 or adk hamburg. Depending on genre, I'd even opt for a ribbon!!!
Me?Thanks! I have so much to learn, but this microphone really has been good to me in the short time I've had it so far. It's a keeper; it would take a rather large sum of money to get me a microphone that could convince me to get rid of it. To me, I find the CS5 to truly be an M179 with a bit more glitz to it and less of a focus on capturing percussion instruments.
Yes; I've been curious about that microphone; it's squarely in the TLM 102 price range and both microphones have essentially the same feature sets, albeit different voicings. From what I've heard, the TLM 102 is nice, but I don't know if it would add too much sheen to your voice for it to sound comfortable, pickleydoo. The 11 is an interesting piece to look at, either way. I like the way it sounds, kidvybes!
Quoted for acknowledgement. I don't know enough about it, but from what I've heard, it's worth checking out.
The RE20 is the Stevie Wonder microphone, just FYI; really open sounding dynamic that won't shovel too much into any one frequency range. And agreed on the SM7b; using that microphone on your voice would be like taking sandpaper to something glittery and complaining that the glitter's gone.
This guy really loves the CS5 because he's posting this exact thing everywhere!
The SCM1000 is popping up everywhere, and I love this mix! It's a very full-sounding mix, but without intent to offend, I don't think that a microphone used on vocals in a mix this thick is represented well for the style pickleydoo wants to record. Maybe post clips of just the mic?
All in all, I would recommend the RE20 on the dynamic route, (while checking out the 441) and although I want to recommend the CS5 to you because I love it and I'm sure it would be great on you, I won't pretend to have any basis to put it ahead of other condensers at a $700 budget. There are simply too many options out there, and too many microphones that are much more specialized than the CS5. Keep that window open, but search on!
yea i think these are great mics and great prices.I have the T3 what a great mic.Shoot i pasid 400$ for mine and still think thats a good price .The cs5 sounds very nice to my ears and it is fully adjustable
Guys, I'm not sure if an RE-20 through a Roland interface preamp would be a good idea. It can quickly sound pretty bland with the wrong pre. I am a huge Stevie Wonder fan (just look at the "shrine" in my record shelf ) but an RE-20 wouldn't be my go-to mic to be honest.
Unfortunately I can't listen to the clip right now, because something in my console went downhill – have to fix this first. Sorry...
New Reply 
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
)
end of the bari spectrum BTW). Whereas stuff that was so-so a couple of years ago, like a AT4047,
Funny thing is, I heard of a rumor that despite its durability, subjecting this microphone to trauma kills its HF response a bit, and from using my old 635 and my mother's 635, I could hear that hers through a Blue Icicle sounded better than mine through a DMP3. Doesn't exactly have a lot of HF response per se, but the thing takes EQ like a monster.
Thanks! I have so much to learn, but this microphone really has been good to me in the short time I've had it so far. It's a keeper; it would take a rather large sum of money to get me a microphone that could convince me to get rid of it. To me, I find the CS5 to truly be an M179 with a bit more glitz to it and less of a focus on capturing percussion instruments.
– have to fix this first. Sorry...
