THAT FAT ANALOG SOUND

[rolo95]

Originally Posted by malekmusic

shakiras laundry service was mixed by javier garza not charles dye

Oppsss.... Sorry
in that charles dye was engineer not mixer...
you right

ROlo.

[Cosmic Closet]

Hi,

For what it's worth, to offer a bit of financial sanity here (relatively speaking):

I grew up with tape. I am 46 now. Started getting obsessed with sound in my teens, and fooled around with a variety of dreadful tape machines in pursuit of Audio Heaven....fast forward to now, and to the topic at hand:

I am a home musician/recordist with ambitions to do more. And although I have a 24-track 'in-the-box' digital job, the old analog bug never died. But, as people are pointing out: how to do it in the year of 2006 without taking a second mortgage and hiring a maintenance engineer?

Get a 1/4-inch two-track. With sync possibilities (center timecode) if you can. Then do 2 tracks at a time, fly them to your DAW, and repeat as needed. You will get all the learning and ear training you could want as far as what tape will or will not do to your sound and you will do it at a halfway reasonable cost.

I purchased a Studer 807 Mk. 2, high-speed model with center timecode track.
That means: two tracks at either 15 or 30Ips, and, as soon as I get my JL Cooper sync unit, it will be the master machine for my Tascam 2488.
In addition to being a great tracking/mastering machine which is built like the proverbial tank, it is a superb, fun unit for location direct-to-tape jams (has phantom and mics in and can mix line input live as well.)

With new tape stock being made, I find this to be a good way if you are 'sitting on the fence' in terms of trying tape without breaking the bank.

Best,

[Wurly_b]

You can’t beat the sound of recording to tape !

I mean if I had the big $$$ bucks, I would go analog the whole way.

This is the “Low End Theory” and the reason I’m here is because I don’t have the $$$. To get the best sound I can out of low cost equipment I have to a lot of crazy things to achieve the sound I want. I do my drums and bass guitar on a Tascam 244, and then I bounce them into my Presonus firebox. Then after laying down all the other tracks, I mix down to a Tascam DA-30 dat machine, --mixing though analog and digital outboard gear. The process is kind of a blend of analog and digital.
I’ve tried doing everything in digital, and I just end up hating the final outcome. The thing that really ‘bugs’ me is that I don’t hate the mix until I listen to it a year later. At first it sound all so pretty and clear, but a year later it sounds like........I don’t want to listen to it until a another year. It is the “Time Test” that has proved to me analog still rules.

Is there any lower cost SMTPE interface on the market that I could use with my FireBox?
I would like to be able to link the Tascam with the FireBox when doing the final mix. That way I would be keeping the drums and bass pure analog mixed to the DA-30.


.

[RedWallStudio]

I always get a chuckle when I hear someone bashing analog tape, but they just spent a couple grand on a Fatso or some other "tape emulation" gear. The way I look at it is that a tape machine is another piece of gear, just like a microphone, a compressor or a console. And, like digital too, it has its own sound. Every single one of us here has gear that we bought for one reason - THE SOUND!!! So, while one person may love the idea of spending several grand on a Fatso or some other tape emulation, I choose tape. And you are right, if someone had the right compressors, the right eq's, and enough experience and time, they just might be able to get a sound out of digital that matches analog. But, think of that concept as it is... trying to MATCH analog. I'm sorry man, but if I gotta go through that much work to match what I can get by simply hitting tape... its a no brainer for me. And can John Q public hear the difference? Hell no.. look at the crap that is on the radio right now, thats proof enough. The bottom line is that for many of us this is a job, and we choose the tools for that job and we need to enjoy it.. and our ears are better than 90% of the people out there. This site wouldn't exist if there weren't people completely crazy about getting "that sound". So, In the end, I have pro-tools because I HAVE to, but I have tape because I WANT to.

[Mike Caffrey]

Why do people think recording to analog tape is so expensive? A 24 track machine is cheaper than an HD system.

[themaidsroom]

Originally Posted by RedWallStudio

So, In the end, I have pro-tools because I HAVE to, but I have tape because I WANT to.

absolutely.........

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by overdose

I have an idea that I did last week to share.
I know I will probably get flack for this but, I bounced a new song I am working on to a two track in the box. Then I tracked the same song to a high quality for it's time Mitsubishi HS-U71 Super VHS recorder on to a Standard grade RCA Video Tape.
After Recording it to tape I recorded it back to the Computer into Peak and WOW.
It rolled off some of the harsh digital top end and rounded the bottom. It is a Hip hop/rap track. The whole track sounds more cohesive and warm.
My next thought was would it be possible then to add some high quality neve type transformers on the VCR output and input to give it more butter.... hmmmmm

Uh ... dude, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but VHS recorders work very differently from real analog recording methods we're discussing here. . It's just a completely different technology, and I'm really embarrassed for you ...


But you sort of did prove my point. The VCR tape did nothing at all beneficial to your recorded sound. It sounded better to you because you wanted it to, and because you believed it would. Placebo effect in action.
.

[overdose]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

Uh ... dude, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but VHS recorders work very differently from real analog recording methods we're discussing here. . It's just a completely different technology, and I'm really embarrassed for you ...


But you sort of did prove my point. The VCR tape did nothing at all beneficial to your recorded sound. It sounded better to you because you wanted it to, and because you believed it would. Placebo effect in action.
.

You feel embarrassed for me why? Because I wanted to try something for shits and giggles. First I'll start by telling you I have been recording for about 17 years. I'll follow that by explaining to you that I know there is a difference between a Studer, Otari ect..... I was just trying something for myself and I thought I would share my personal findings.
And, for your dumb ass placebo effect theory. There was a difference just as I stated before. I did not believe it would. Personally I thought it would sound like garbage, but it did not. So dfegad on you for assuming you know what I can and can not hear when you have not listened to the difference your self. fuuck

[Bob Olhsson]

VHS recorders can have two kinds of audio. The "hi fi" audio is an FM recording that's part of the rotary head picture recording. The non-hi fi audio is a linear track along the edge of the tape that is exactly like an analog cassette recorder. The latter usually has a pretty heavy duty compressor built in.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Its not possible to argue the fact, that both can be good if you are skilled in the ear.

[overdose]

My VCR must have good compression going on. I think it cost about $1200 new. That was a long time ago though. It was one of the first to have Super VHS capabilities.
Anyway, it sounded better to me than the ITB 2 track. Several others I let hear it told me they hear the same things I do. In a blind AB test. Maybe not the best way but it did not cost me a dime. I got the VCR off my dad.

[ChaNce144]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

conversely, i bought a copy of janet jackson's control last weekend - mint and
a steal for $3 on vinyl.....sounds great......lots of digital synths.....synth bass.....
and drum machine.....all hitting tape.......jimmy jam and terry lewis at their peak......
and some great songs that stand the test of time - at least these two decades since
it's release.......crazy how time goes by.......buy a tape recorder......the pro tools
version of this record would sound like demo........maybe that's your thing.......




- jack

Wow, I hope your brain doesn't work like your writing. I would stick an icepick in my ear if that was what was constantly coming out of my head

Of course, you probably think 4 times faster than I do

[T.RayBullard]

just personally find it beguiling that so many people are o.k. with c+.......to
me that's the best digital has ever gotten.........i don't know one great engineer
in nyc who would track on digital out of choice.......i don't know one who
couldn't hear it in three measures of the first song......
good recordings from late 50's blow away current digital........, but that's just
me.........

Yep it is just you. I know a lot of great engineers in the field I am in(classical music) who wouldnt go to tape if their life depended on it. Know a few in other fields too...tape aint the alpha and omega. the material FIRST is, THEN the engineer, THEN the medium. Happy digital user here, with many happy clients.

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

...I know a lot of great engineers in the field I am in(classical music) who wouldnt go to tape if their life depended on it. Know a few in other fields too...tape aint the alpha and omega. the material FIRST is, THEN the engineer, THEN the medium...

Heh. Well put.

Seems a lot of folks are looking for a medium (and hoping it will be tape) that will add MOJO that isn't otherwise there in the material they are trying to capture...

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by ChaNce144

Wow, I hope your brain doesn't work like your writing. I would stick an icepick in my ear if that was what was constantly coming out of my head

Of course, you probably think 4 times faster than I do

I believe it's called *steam* of consciousness...

[Mr Generic]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

It sounded better to you because you wanted it to, and because you believed it would. Placebo effect in action.
.

Sorry but have to call BS here. You have NO WAY of knowing what someone else heard or didn't hear. To label it "placebo effect" w/o hearing it yourself is both ignorant and hateful.

..and BTW consumer videotape was analog on the audio side. Ever heard a stereo betamax tape through a good system? Didn't think so...

[themaidsroom]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

Yep it is just you. I know a lot of great engineers in the field I am in(classical music) who wouldnt go to tape if their life depended on it. Know a few in other fields too...tape aint the alpha and omega. the material FIRST is, THEN the engineer, THEN the medium. Happy digital user here, with many happy clients.

your field keeps new vinyl alive.......speakerscorner.de produce some of the
best recorded music i have ever heard on vinyl from analog masters

right now i'm rocking jean-marie leclair - musique de chambre - as performed by
one of my favorite groups musica antiqua koln - reinhard goebel.........they are
amazing.........i prefer their sound on tape and vinyl as do many others in
the classical listening environment.......mint copies of their vinyl move quickly
for high costs.........their ddd replacements are sort of vacum-sealed, choked and
brittle......


if the digital makes you happy......
rock on baby........
life is short.........

be well

- jack

[overdose]

Originally Posted by Mr Generic

Sorry but have to call BS here. You have NO WAY of knowing what someone else heard or didn't hear. To label it "placebo effect" w/o hearing it yourself is both ignorant and hateful.

..and BTW consumer videotape was analog on the audio side. Ever heard a stereo betamax tape through a good system? Didn't think so...

Damn, I wish my dad would have kept that Beta deck. You just reminded me we used to have one of those. Much better than VHS. IMHO
He does however still own two Sony 1/4 inch reel to reels.

Might be another shits and giggles test, but I'm not sure if I should go there. You know because of the magical placebo effect.

[RedWallStudio]

There used to be a band called Placebo. I liked them a lot, but I could never figure out why.