Originally Posted by rifftrax2
Yeah, so not really. The frequency response will change radically no matter which direction you move your head actually (up and down vs. left and right). Since very few monitors are truly "time-aligned" to begin with, the issue of 'phase distortion' is a totally moot point. The directivity of a speaker (especially tweeters incorporating any sort of waveguide on the baffle) is going to be virtually identical on both the vertical and horizontal axes, so it really doesn't matter much at all whether your speakers are horizontal or vertically placed. Plenty of extremely high-end monitors (look at genelec for examples) use a woofer flanked to the left and right with mid-range and/or tweeter drivers. Just because a speaker doesn't employ a pure "vertical line" arrangement of drivers does not in any way mean that it is "poorly designed". That's crazy.
incorrect. it's simple physics. there are monitors, as with the very bizarre ones you pointed out in that post, that don't work on the same concepts. extreme crossover designs can reduce the audible effect of crossover phase distortion from two drivers outputting the same sound at the same time, but it's not what you find in almost every single monitor ever made.
I stand by my answer, having seen it proven repeatedly for decades.
I also described quite clearly in my previous post why what I said is true, and all you have to do is research this yourself to find that it is true instead of finding one obviously uncommon speaker design and refuting everything I said as a result. The most important thing is that all speakers have a direction, either horizontal or vertical, along which they exhibit much less (possibly zero) difference in phase relationship as you move along that axis.
I'm not talking about "time aligned drivers", which typically means setting the tweeter further back than the woofer. I'm talking about following the rule of point source reproduction, which with multiway speakers that aren't coincidentally mounted (certain "tannoy" etc.) or omnidirectional (some vintage "ohm walsh" models for example) can only exist in one plane, not both.
The science and physics behind what I said is pretty well understood and accepted/proven as fact. If you move your head (or a microphone if you want to test scientifically yourself for some reason) along the plane where tweeter and woofer remain equal distant from the mic/ear (horizontal plane with vertically aligned drivers), you will not hear the extreme inconsistencies in frequency response through the crossover range that you will hear if you move your head along the plane where tweeter and woofer get closer/further away as you move (horizontal plane with horizontally aligned drivers).
Your point about dispersion isn't what I'm talking about. The tweeter only has bad dispersion at it's highest frequencies. At it's lowest frequencies it has EXCELLENT dispersion, and this is precisely why the range of frequencies where both the tweeter and woofer (or tweeter and midrange) are reproducing exactly the same signal is extremely susceptible to audible phase and dispersion problems.
You effectively have your woofer creating, for example, a 5kHz output 3 or 4db down from it's normal level, and your tweeter creating also the same signal at the same frequency and also 3 or 4db down from it's normal level. When combined the two drivers sum the output into as close to an even output level as possible. However because the tweeter is at least a couple of inches away from teh woofer typically, sometimes much more, rarely a little less, you now have a huge problem with phase irregularities between the two drivers. However in the horizontal plane, if drivers are mounted vertically, you will not experience the variations from this that come from moving your head the other way (or mounting the speaker on it's side). If you don't believe me (as you appear not to), please email genelec and ask them about this topic - pasting in my email if you choose to do so. I would be interested in reading their response.
Actually, I can provide the answer from Genelec right here:
Genelec Community - Tech Tips
"All spaced driver monitor solutions suffer from a notch in the frequency response when listening off-axis in the plane of the drivers. Positioning the monitor horizontally causes this notch to become audible when moving from left to right along the mixing desk. Positioning the monitor vertically removes this problem."
OH - and for genelec, show me the examples please where they aren't vertically aligned. I have used plenty of genelecs and they are ALL vertically aligned. The exception to the rule is their VERY large main systems which only have subwoofers on the sides where phase relationships aren't relevant due to the wavelength and dispersion of low frequency sounds (this is a common design in pro studio main systems - you don't find it in speakers that aren't built into the studio walls typically due to the sheer size of these designs).
Always keep it vertically aligned if possible (I do understand it isn't always practical do to so). It's low hanging fruit - doing it reduces a problem, not doing it increases a problem, it costs nothing, and it improves sound quality in most situations.
At least this should matter to the us if we're a typical engineer who is sitting OR standing most of the time while moving from side to side to adjust things.... or if you have lots members of a band and you want them all to hear things more or less similarly so you get them to all stand or all sit, knowing that no matter where the are horizontally across the room behind you they are all hearing the midrange area more or less the same.