Audio interference in the gear pyramid

[klimpis]

Hi, I would like to know something about the place of the audio interference in the gear pyramid..
It is heard, - your record will sound like your cheapest and weakest gear, but on other side, there are opinions, for instance, that if you have limited budget, you need to buy really good mic and other things in hierarchy comes only after it.

This question can be asked more precisely – how in the case of limited budget, I can get the best quality? If I buy RME FIREFACE 800 for about 1150EUR or for example FOCUSRITE SAFFIRE PRO 40 for about 500EUR and the rest 650EUR what are left in the deference between these two gears, I add to rest of my budget, and I spend this money for really good mic/mics or other stuff?

P.S. Sorry about my English.

[Beefy]

In a computer based recording set up it would be on the top of the pyramid or number 1. Doesn't matter how good anything after it sounds if you run it through a crappy converter it will sound like crap.



That being said you can still buy a 70 art dual pre and a sm57 or similar and learn a lot and still convey the emotion of the music.

So if you just want to try your hand at recording buy something cheap you will learn if your going to stick with it or not. If it's a lifetime goal buy as good as a converter as you can if you want a professional sound your eventually going to have to pay the piper anyway.

[3rd Degree]

I don't want to downplay the role of an interface but even cheaper interfaces are pretty good these days. The difference between a $500 and $1000 interface isn't really that big. That same difference is a whole lot bigger when we are talking about mics, or preamps. So, for me, the quality isn't a huge factor.

That doesn't mean you don't want to buy the best you can afford. It is probably one of the few things you will have trouble "upgrading" down the road as you will always need something else, before you spend the cash on a new interface.

One thing that I am assuming is that you are not using the inboard pre's or DI's that many interfaces have. There are some differences here but it isn't to say one interface will have a great preamp and another interface will have a decent one. It is more along the lines of a great interface may have a kind of, sort of useable preamp and a poor quality interface will have a terrible preamp.


Also, many things should not be overlooked. Certain interfaces have compatibility issues with PC. On some interfaces, you can't bypass the preamps. It doesn't make a big difference if they are USB 2.0 or firewire but many computers are not coming with firewire ports, something that may be an issue now, but likely will be an issue in the future.

[klimpis]

Thanks for opinions. I have my own studio for about three years, but till now I was working only with hip-hop artists. Mainly there you need record only voice. Instrumentals are made on computer. But now I want to move forwards and record instruments and work not only with rapers.
I think the best decision is to wait when I can save up some extra money, and then buy the best gear I can afford.

[College_Records]

if you're only doing 1 to 2 tracks at a time, just snag an RME babyface. It has super clean, smooth pres like the grace m101 (one of the best selling preamps on the market especially for hiphop). The AD/DA conversion is state of the art and the expandability though the breakout cable has crazy cababilities if you ever wanna start recording full bands. It sounds better than an apogee duet and quite possibly the grace m101 too. Plus you get 2 channels for only $700 usd!!! Pick one up used and use the rest of your dough to buy:
1) a $50 referance mic and...
2) $200 of room treatment (owens corning 703 or rockwool) to "Tune your room". I'm guessing since you're doing hiphop you already have a decent set of monitors; room treatment will really help you hear what the music actually sounds like and they are excellent for a vocal booths too!
3) $60-90 for three used mogami gold cables off ebay for your mic and monitors
4) $200-$$$$$$$$ The mic of your choice. I like the Blue bluebird, Rode NT2-A Studio Solution, Mojave Audio MA-200, or Miktek CV4. Any of the above would be killer for hip hop.

Note: I have a Fireface 800 and the conversion and preamps on the babyface are leaps and bounds better.

Here's a link to a girl on youtube who uses the babyface for everything. She's using an sm58 beta on vocals with the babyface pres and a blue bluebird as a room mic. It's QUALITY. Think of what it could do for hiphop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI9NRfI8-zA

Don't save up an extra 800 dollars for an a bunch of features you don't really need. Optimize your studio. Optimize your results.

[SayItInAWhisper]

Originally Posted by College_Records

if you're only doing 1 to 2 tracks at a time, just snag an RME babyface. It has super clean, smooth pres like the grace m101 (one of the best selling preamps on the market especially for hiphop). The AD/DA conversion is state of the art and the expandability though the breakout cable has crazy cababilities if you ever wanna start recording full bands. It sounds better than an apogee duet and quite possibly the grace m101 too. Plus you get 2 channels for only $700 usd!!! Pick one up used and use the rest of your dough to buy:
1) a $50 referance mic and...
2) $200 of room treatment (owens corning 703 or rockwool) to "Tune your room". I'm guessing since you're doing hiphop you already have a decent set of monitors; room treatment will really help you hear what the music actually sounds like and they are excellent for a vocal booths too!
3) $60-90 for three used mogami gold cables off ebay for your mic and monitors
4) $200-$$$$$$$$ The mic of your choice. I like the Blue bluebird, Rode NT2-A Studio Solution, Mojave Audio MA-200, or Miktek CV4. Any of the above would be killer for hip hop.

Note: I have a Fireface 800 and the conversion and preamps on the babyface are leaps and bounds better.

Here's a link to a girl on youtube who uses the babyface for everything. She's using an sm58 beta on vocals with the babyface pres and a blue bluebird as a room mic. It's QUALITY. Think of what it could do for hiphop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI9NRfI8-zA

Don't save up an extra 800 dollars for an a bunch of features you don't really need. Optimize your studio. Optimize your results.

You have saved even me a lot of trouble friend . Thank you for this post .

[firefly419]

In the digital world, the a/d and d/a conversion reigns supreme. Save yourself a lot of time and heart ache and figure out a way to have at least 2 channels of premium conversion. Maybe a lavry blue? None of your other gear will reach its potential without quality conversion. Good luck!

[College_Records]

Originally Posted by SayItInAWhisper

You have saved even me a lot of trouble friend . Thank you for this post .

We're all in the same boat.

A LOT of pro hip hop producers are using this setup because it also makes your rig mobile without sacrificing quality. Mike Posner and MdL just to name a couple.

Originally Posted by firefly419

In the digital world, the a/d and d/a conversion reigns supreme. Save yourself a lot of time and heart ache and figure out a way to have at least 2 channels of premium conversion. Maybe a lavry blue? None of your other gear will reach its potential without quality conversion. Good luck!

THE RME BABYFACE WILL HAVE 10x BETTER RESULTS IF YOU ACOUSTICALLY TREAT YOUR CONTROL ROOM AND OPTIMIZE YOUR SETUP!!

Your budget is roughly $800 - $1600 max.

A Lavry would be at least $3,000, it won't be mobile unless you lug it around in a protective rack case, and you won't get better results unless you pair it with a quality mic, cables, and acoustic treatment.

RME and the Lavry are comparable. You won't notice THAT much of a difference when your mixing down for laptops and bass heavy car speakers ~ They both run 192khz and contain similar components/chips; neither is head and shoulders over the other ~ but don't get the wrong idea; Maudio, presonus, and focusrite are kids toys compared to RME.

Acoustic Treatment is not sexy, but it IS A MUST. Your bass will not be accurate. You beats will not "knock". Your mixes may sound good in your room, but they will be crap anywhere else because your untreated room is f*cking you in the ears.

Why in the world would you spend thousands of dollars on studio monitors, AD/DA conversion, and gold sputtered/tipped mics and cables just to put them in a room that f*cks everything up. The chances of you making a hit are like walking through a huge corn maze blind.

Make your mixing space accurate and your jaw will literally drop as you experience better results from less effort. All of the sounds you hear will become focused. Your room will no longer be f*cking you in the ears; it will be a soft, safe, playground for your talent and creativity. All the gear you own will all of a sudden be working at it's full potential.

Optimizing your studio is what this forum is about; if it takes a trip to Lowes to buy some fugly pieces of compressed fiberglass and rock wool, then so be it.

- Andrew

[firefly419]

Originally Posted by College_Records

We're all in the same boat.

A LOT of pro hip hop producers are using this setup because it also makes your rig mobile without sacrificing quality. Mike Posner and MdL just to name a couple.


THE RME BABYFACE WILL HAVE 10x BETTER RESULTS IF YOU ACOUSTICALLY TREAT YOUR CONTROL ROOM AND OPTIMIZE YOUR SETUP!!

Your budget is roughly $800 - $1600 max.

A Lavry would be at least $3,000, it won't be mobile unless you lug it around in a protective rack case, and you won't get better results unless you pair it with a quality mic, cables, and acoustic treatment.

RME and the Lavry are comparable. You won't notice THAT much of a difference when your mixing down for laptops and bass heavy car speakers ~ They both run 192khz and contain similar components/chips; neither is head and shoulders over the other ~ but don't get the wrong idea; Maudio, presonus, and focusrite are kids toys compared to RME.

If his focus should be on the room so much, then why care about mobility at all? I understand the importance of room treatment. All of mine are done. That said, I've heard plenty of low end conversion, and I think it limits the results, no matter what room it was done it.

A used lavry blue is around 1600... add an aes16 card and you can have that sound for around 2k, not 3k. Sounds much better... I'm pretty sure I haven't seen mastering engineers using the babyface. Babyface certainly isn't terrible, but just because they have the same sampling rates doesn't mean they sound anything alike.

[College_Records]

Originally Posted by firefly419

If his focus should be on the room so much, then why care about mobility at all? I understand the importance of room treatment. All of mine are done. That said, I've heard plenty of low end conversion, and I think it limits the results, no matter what room it was done it.

A used lavry blue is around 1600... add an aes16 card and you can have that sound for around 2k, not 3k. Sounds much better... I'm pretty sure I haven't seen mastering engineers using the babyface. Babyface certainly isn't terrible, but just because they have the same sampling rates doesn't mean they sound anything alike.

He asked specifically about the focusrite pro 40 (around $500) and the RME FF 800 ($1800 new, $1100 used). He said saving up for the FF800 would be a stretch and that he only needed two channels. I have no doubt that the Lavry ($3000 new, $1600 used) would sound better than the RME, but I doubt he's gonna be able to front that much cash.

The whole point of mobility + a treated room is so you can produce on the go (via headphones and a laptop), track a few rap vocals (with porta-booths) and then mix when you get home in your professionally treated environment.

I'd personally love to have a lynx or a lavry one day, but it's just too much money. I can't afford it and I gotta focus on what's gonna get me results in the recording business now. I figure this guy is in the same position.

Lavry is professional mastering gear... Rme is a step under them, but not far. Do you really think a guy looking at a focusrite pro 40 is concerned with boutique mastering gear?