NEW Art Pro channel 2 - Attention Thom Davis of ART

[shatz]

I'd like to hear this thing on toms. I had the original pro channel and sold it years ago, never got into it. I liked it on bass and that's about it. I'm needing about three more pres and eqs to dedicate to tom mics. This thing looks promising for that application.

[thomdavis]

I might have missed something along the thread, but...

- Just 2 tubes. The third tube in the original was for the circuit we were not allowed to call something that sounded like Marryable Vue. So now it's one in the preamp, and one that right after the vactrol.

High plate voltage is indeed 150 volts. Added to spite the starved voltage people who weren't on the same wave length as Joel Patterson. Just kidding. It does offer some nice variation, but personally I like the gradual crunch of the original voltage.

The big change I really like on this is the front panel input, the "new" instrument circuit. Try it with your favorite bass today!

The VoiceChannel lives on. Singers and Voice Over people love it, as well as anyone that really needs more knobs in their lives.

VU meter lit by leds now, nicer (I think) routed face panel, etc. etc.

A fellow geek told me about this thread, I really don't log in that much. Partly because I am not sure if I should be here, I'm biased, emotions and all that, but if anyone has questions, the support at artproaudio dot com address is the mail bag I try to stay on top off.

Cheers,
Thom

[Paulie Storm]

Well you sold me Thom!! Im ordering it as we speak!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz.com

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by changeng

Hey Don - you have both the Pro Channel and the VLA - do they use the comp tube in the same way? Always wondered about that.

yea I have no clue LoL

I'm just way too busy these days to rip into the schematics or trace the boards... let alone open them up. I'm ASSUMING they do and have some recollection of finding out that they do work similarly from a DIY pro audio site back in the past... but my memory has always been pathetic and gets worse as I get older, so god only knows.

sorry I'm unhelpful about those specifics...

My intelligence is like seaweed - it surfaces in a rare frothy wave.

(hey, that's WAY smarter than most things I've come up with in the past week or two LoL ;-) )

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by KdPyke

Yes, but like I said, the only mention of tubes whatsoever is what I quoted above. I'm annoyed, because I really want to know if I have tube compression.

well ,the pro vla doesn't have tube compression fwiw, it has opto compression with a tube gain stage. that is, I'm pretty sure, what the pc2 has. in fact it technically has 2 tube gain stages due to the preamp having one as well. the simple fact that the pc2 has 2 tubes means it has at least 2 tube gain stages, potentially 4 depending on how the two halves of the tubes are used.

[shatz]

Didn't the original have a tube for the eq? Been too long.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by thomdavis

I might have missed something along the thread, but...

- Just 2 tubes. The third tube in the original was for the circuit we were not allowed to call something that sounded like Marryable Vue. So now it's one in the preamp, and one that right after the vactrol.

High plate voltage is indeed 150 volts. Added to spite the starved voltage people who weren't on the same wave length as Joel Patterson. Just kidding. It does offer some nice variation, but personally I like the gradual crunch of the original voltage.

The big change I really like on this is the front panel input, the "new" instrument circuit. Try it with your favorite bass today!

The VoiceChannel lives on. Singers and Voice Over people love it, as well as anyone that really needs more knobs in their lives.

VU meter lit by leds now, nicer (I think) routed face panel, etc. etc.

A fellow geek told me about this thread, I really don't log in that much. Partly because I am not sure if I should be here, I'm biased, emotions and all that, but if anyone has questions, the support at artproaudio dot com address is the mail bag I try to stay on top off.

Cheers,
Thom

ah hahahahaha I'm so honoured Thom that you replied to my little thread! Thank you! I'm excited about this product. I'm such a low end gearslut LoL.... great info.

I'm not letting my original pc1 go though - despite the silly anti-prochannel theme we read about regularly, everyone was ALL over it until they found out it wasn't a high plate voltage device, then suddenly opinions went down.

Odd, since it sounds EXACTLY the same now as it did when everyone thought it was more serious device with high plate voltage ;-)

Thanks for dropping by for this discussion - I'll leave you to your device designing.

I always wanted a stereo "mariable vue" compressor from you guys - even emailed about it a long time ago, but it seems that this isn't likely to happen. Too bad, it's a cool cheapo real tube compressor. mu-controlled gain stage or not, the "tube" compressor of the pc1 has a var-mu-like response to it that is very cool.

But the opto is where life is at for most of my tracking.

[FilmNMusicman]

Originally Posted by shatz

Didn't the original have a tube for the eq? Been too long.

According to the ART website (Which is now redesigned and IMO ugly)

The Pro Channel was a combination of the:
ART Dual Tube EQ
ART PRO MPA
ART PRO VLA

(not in that order on the channel strip)

In the Dual Tube EQ the tube is once again just used for gain.

[changeng]

"My intelligence is like seaweed - it surfaces in a rare frothy wave. "

geez - I can't hear the word "frothy" anymore without thinking of the google definition for the word "Santorum"

[KdPyke]

Originally Posted by changeng

"My intelligence is like seaweed - it surfaces in a rare frothy wave. "

geez - I can't hear the word "frothy" anymore without thinking of the google definition for the word "Santorum"

Hahaha

[shatz]

Originally Posted by FilmNMusicman

According to the ART website (Which is now redesigned and IMO ugly)

The Pro Channel was a combination of the:
ART Dual Tube EQ
ART PRO MPA
ART PRO VLA

(not in that order on the channel strip)

In the Dual Tube EQ the tube is once again just used for gain.

Ah, ok. Thought there was a tube in the eq section somewhere.

[lukejs]

Looks like a great piece of gear for the money ! Quick question : If you wanted to use this as a mix buss device, where would you connect the line level ? In the insert jack post mic pre and pre compressor ? ( obviously, I'd buy two for mix buss duties.... hahaha)

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by changeng

"My intelligence is like seaweed - it surfaces in a rare frothy wave. "

geez - I can't hear the word "frothy" anymore without thinking of the google definition for the word "Santorum"

oh crap, now I'm picturing that and my clever quotable is changing fast.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by lukejs

Looks like a great piece of gear for the money ! Quick question : If you wanted to use this as a mix buss device, where would you connect the line level ? In the insert jack post mic pre and pre compressor ? ( obviously, I'd buy two for mix buss duties.... hahaha)

I don't think the compressors in pro channels can be stereo linked (I could be wrong, just let me know) - which makes true stereo use very very dangerous (you'll get the sound moving from side to side in your headphones and imaging will fly out the window... literally and figuratively).

[KdPyke]

Originally Posted by dkelley

I don't think the compressors in pro channels can be stereo linked (I could be wrong, just let me know) - which makes true stereo use very very dangerous (you'll get the sound moving from side to side in your headphones and imaging will fly out the window... literally and figuratively).

I could see running a mono buss through the PCII if you have an in-the-box bass crossover going on, and you want to send a mixdown of the crossover tracks through the PCII for warmth/tweaking. In that case, you might want to send it through the entire unit from input to output. If you wanted to patch something in at line level from another pre or other outboard gear, I would use your suggestion patching in just before the compressor.

[KdPyke]

Just read your edit- for stereo buss duties, dkelly is right on.

[changeng]

yeah - it's certainly not a mastering tool, but could make a nice colorbox once you HAVE levels set for mastering - bring your mixed, stereo signal out of the ProChannels into your final compression. I was thinking about getting a second modded unit from Vince at AudioProz for that purpose. Then something shiny crossed my path.

I'm working on a mono record right now - I may give it a go.

[lukejs]

Originally Posted by KdPyke

Just read your edit- for stereo buss duties, dkelly is right on.

Would you say Bob Katz is wrong because he likes to run two Cranesong Trackers unlinked ? Well... that's what I read that he did.... If you match them closely, it can sound good... I actually like the sound of my Art Pro VLA II more in unlinked mode, than in linked...

[KdPyke]

David Gibson would say nothing is wrong, it's just a matter of taste. If you like it, then run with it. Just be aware that it may not be to everyone's taste, so if your goal is to please an audience (or a client), you may want to stay away from anything too out there.

dkelly is correct in saying that the stereo image will be difficult to pin down if they aren't linked though. Like I said- it will be your decision whether you like it or not.

[FilmNMusicman]

Originally Posted by lukejs

Would you say Bob Katz is wrong because he likes to run two Cranesong Trackers unlinked ? Well... that's what I read that he did.... If you match them closely, it can sound good... I actually like the sound of my Art Pro VLA II more in unlinked mode, than in linked...

FULLY AGREE about the VLA in unlinked mode.....Something is up with that stereo link button and channel 2 pan know....Maybe I just need to tweak more, but to my ears it sounds better as dual mono.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by lukejs

Would you say Bob Katz is wrong because he likes to run two Cranesong Trackers unlinked ? Well... that's what I read that he did.... If you match them closely, it can sound good... I actually like the sound of my Art Pro VLA II more in unlinked mode, than in linked...

yup. I've read that before. I think he's crazy. it becomes an effect, and I certainly wouldn't want that particular setup he's been quoted as using on any of my true stereo material. It might be VERY cool on techno/dance/electronica though where stereo imaging problems in time with the beat as set off by that configuration could be a really cool effect.

But I suspect that his quote has been taken out of context - I'm absolutely certain that he doesn't do that on all material, or if he does then it's only just a tiny smidge of compression from the dual monos.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by FilmNMusicman

FULLY AGREE about the VLA in unlinked mode.....Something is up with that stereo link button and channel 2 pan know....Maybe I just need to tweak more, but to my ears it sounds better as dual mono.

really? because stereo link mode on that or any other compressor disables some of the controls on the second channel and instead uses one set of controls to control both compressors where it counts. Not meaning to question your knowledge about it, but that IS a common misunderstanding when someone doesn't have experience with stereo linked compressors.

Either that or there's something wrong with your vla (always possible).

stereo linking means the signal that controls the compression comes from either only one channel or, more commonly, from a sum of both channels, so both compressors compress the same amount at the same time. It means that if you listen to either channel alone it will sound different from how that channel alone sounds in dual mono mode, but if you listen to the stereo mix you won't have the two channel's levels being controlled differently from each other based on that channel's individual content.

For example, if a sound in the stereo mix feeding the compressors is intentionally panned partly to the right (for a simple example) then the right compressor might kick in HARDER than the left in dual-mono mode because of the louder signal hitting the trigger circuit on that side, and therefore it might actually reduce the level MORE than the left side compressor would. And not only would it therefore move that one single sound more to the left side momentarilly as a result of this effect (which is obviously not the correct thign to do with stereo material), but it also quietens EVERYTHING in the right channel by the same amount for the same length of time, making the entire mix briefly pan to the left side a bit until the right channel's compressor trigger circuit levels out again.

So in true stereo, none of those incorrect artifacts occur, but obviously some of the controls on one channel of a stereo compressor are disabled or change functionality in true stereo mode (read the manual to learn the specifics of your compressor here).

Again, the only way dual mono is good on a stereo mix is as an effect - certainly not something you'd want on any mix that you have carefully mixed/panned to sound beautiful, nor on any true stereo recording where things will go completely to hell LoL.

Fun, but disarmingly audibly inaccurate.

[FilmNMusicman]

Fair enough DKelly, I actually just realigned my audio interface and my outboard gear and haven't tried it since...I may have flown off the handles about that...Sorry forums, gotta be careful...things like that discourage people based on one persons experience

As long as ART doesn't release a "Reference Series" version of the Pro Channel 2 in like a month I'll be happy

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by FilmNMusicman

As long as ART doesn't release a "Reference Series" version of the Pro Channel 2 in like a month I'll be happy

hahaha LoL that's awesome.

reference gold yet.... that would be the ultimate low budget channel strip and we'd all be pulling out our credit cards!

[KdPyke]

Hey Guys,

Here is my review: ART Pro Channel II

[l.sicilian]

Originally Posted by KdPyke

Hey Guys,

Here is my review: ART Pro Channel II

You know what would be great? If you could post some audio samples with original and new tubes, so we can hear the difference.

[KdPyke]

I totally will, but it's going to have to wait until the weekend. The piece is already sitting in my rack with the new tubes in, and I won't have time until Saturday.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by KdPyke

Hey Guys,

Here is my review: ART Pro Channel II

good review.

but dude, the actual senior guy from ART, Thom, replied here in this thread and told you the answer to your tube question:

"So now it's one in the preamp, and one that right after the vactrol."

There is no reason for a "Who knows?" in your review about it when the actual guy who helped invent it and represents the company told you how it works and what the 2nd tube does.

You could put the actual factual answer in your review so it's helpful to people rather than leaving this solid fact out of the review for them to ask of Thom all over again.

Just sayin...

otherwise, good review. I like it. :-)

excellent info about the eq - since the eq in the PC1 isn't considered terribly transparent (although I like it).

[changeng]

people use the eq in the first PC more to boost than to cut for their vocals and that's the mistake. If you use the thing with a tight Q and sparingly, it's a very effective cutter to jigger the preamp around and get the most from the unit for vocals. Using it to boost on electric instruments is very effective, but yes, a bit dirty. and that's good then!

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by changeng

people use the eq in the first PC more to boost than to cut for their vocals and that's the mistake. If you use the thing with a tight Q and sparingly, it's a very effective cutter to jigger the preamp around and get the most from the unit for vocals. Using it to boost on electric instruments is very effective, but yes, a bit dirty. and that's good then!

yea, I tend to forget that back in the old days I made those mistakes too. it takes a pretty amazing eq to handle boost effectively. And yea LoL, I like a little dirt in my hardware eqs.