Help deciding on final pre for my collection

[dickiefunk]

Hi,

I'm looking considering replacing my Presonus Eureka for a dedicated preamp to add to my Focusrite ISA One and UA Solo 610. Ideally I would like the pre to be rackmountable and half rack.
As some of you may be aware, I mainly record vocals here but also record guitars and bass on occasions.

The options of come up with after having a good look around are :-

GAP PRE73 DLX (when released)
Grace M101
Audient Mico

From the reviews I've been reading, all of these appear to be quality pres but have + and -.

The PRE73 DLX looks promising and offers that Neve type sound at a bargain price but I was put off the PRE73 from buying one of the original first batch which had noise issues with it!! It also uses a wall wart psu which I'm not keen on.

Grace M101 is a high quality built pre and has an excellent reputation as a clean sounding preamp! Also has internal psu so no wall warts! Maybe a little too clean in sound though I heard a comparison between the M101 and SPL Channel One and much preferred the M101!!

The Mico has been one of the pres I've been tempted to get for a while but it doesn't have a power switch and it again uses a wall wart psu!! These factors keep putting me off from buying this pre!!

Alternatively I've been considering picking up a secondhand Focusrite Liquid Channel because this would give me similar tones to both the PRE73 and Grace M101 + have a stack more tones from and have all those compressors + eq. I realize that this isn't a half rack pre but it offers a heck of a lot for its size!

My other option would be to get the Eureka modded. I spoke to a very experienced preamp designer over here in UK and he suggested getting the Eureka re-capped with higher grade caps and change a few other components here and there.

What are your thoughts/advice on this? Are there any other pres that would be a better option fitting my criteria (apart from RNP).

[SayItInAWhisper]

I purchased a Eureka after doing some research on this site for a nice channel strip/preamp for 80 dollars that needed a repair (little did the guy know that the repair was going to cost me $5 as it was just the send and return jacks). I got it repaired and decided to get it Hot-Modded by a guy who specialized in repair and modding Eureka's specifically. I would say before wanting to upgrade get the Hot-Mod, the difference is dramatic. Search and google are my best friends, I was planning on getting a Blue Robbie or Isa One but when I saw a thread on this site that comparing the Robbie vs. A Hot Modded Eureka I totally changed my mind on it all and went with the Eureka. Search Presonus Eureka vs. Blue Robbie on this site and listen for yourself .

[dickiefunk]

I have to agree that the Eureka is actually a decent preamp already but it's also a whole channel strip!! I'm wondering if I went for just a preamp around £600 I may get an even better quality pre?

[ears2thesky]

The Mico has two channels, phase adjustment, digital out, and a harmonics function that are pretty impressive for the price. Wallwart or no, I think this feature set gives it the nod over the other suggestions.

At this price point it's gonna be nearly impossible to beat.

[dickiefunk]

Yeah the Mico certainly has a lot more features than the others but I'm not interested in features, I'm interested purely in the sonics of the preamp.

[Jimsi]

From downright dirty to crystal clear try the Alctrom MP100. I use this preamp on about every session i record lately, used even more than my ISA One...I am amazed how this thing works and sounds...it has punch even in clean mode and grit in clean/tube mode...I did replace that cheap Chinese tube with a Telefunken 12ax7 and it helped...

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

Yeah the Mico certainly has a lot more features than the others but I'm not interested in features, I'm interested purely in the sonics of the preamp.

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by Jimsi

From downright dirty to crystal clear try the Alctrom MP100. I use this preamp on about every session i record lately, used even more than my ISA One...I am amazed how this thing works and sounds...it has punch even in clean mode and grit in clean/tube mode...I did replace that cheap Chinese tube with a Telefunken 12ax7 and it helped...

Yeah I've been interested in the Alctron MP100 but don't want another desktop pre. I've already got two of those and would really like to start moving everything into a rack to keep things clean and tidy!

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

Yeah I've been interested in the Alctron MP100 but don't want another desktop pre. I've already got two of those and would really like to start moving everything into a rack to keep things clean and tidy!

Didn't you say somewhere you have a Daking?

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by ShadowAMD

Didn't you say somewhere you have a Daking?

No, I don't have a Daking

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

No, I don't have a Daking

Maybe a suggestion

[dickiefunk]

I've heard good things about the Daking but I want to get away from having more desktop pres.

With my current pres the UA610 gives me a nice character pre, the ISA One is kinda between colored and transparent and the Eureka is leaning more towards the clean/transparent type sound. I'm wondering if the Grace M101 maybe what I'm missing from my collection seeing as I already have a character pre and something between colored and transparent?

Saying that, the Neve type pre seems so popular with recording vocals? But then again, the UA 610 is also another very popular vocal pre!?

I'm also toying with maybe getting a Focusrite Liquid Channel!?

[ShadowAMD]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

I've heard good things about the Daking but I want to get away from having more desktop pres.

With my current pres the UA610 gives me a nice character pre, the ISA One is kinda between colored and transparent and the Eureka is leaning more towards the clean/transparent type sound. I'm wondering if the Grace M101 maybe what I'm missing from my collection seeing as I already have a character pre and something between colored and transparent?

Saying that, the Neve type pre seems so popular with recording vocals? But then again, the UA 610 is also another very popular vocal pre!?

I'm also toying with maybe getting a Focusrite Liquid Channel!?

You may be interested in this, I know a guy that can build you a classic API 312 for £320.00..

It's a lunchbox mount.. But I got an A-Designs 500R for £160.00

I know it sounds a bit for expensive , but they are excellent and if you like the API sound it's an excellent way to start..

[mhs2xs]

Dickie,
I'm surprised some of the "preamps are all hype" experts have not suggested to obvious, ART Tube Pre. Buy a case of em and thank them later. No need to spend more than $300 because after that, you're just throwing your money away. I listened to the clipalator on my $200 speakers and can't hear a difference between a $200 pre and a $2000 pre.

Serusly though, I've been interested in these for a while, but never pulled the trigger. Especially after i bought my Summit 2BA-221. Thought you may want to have a look though if you hadn't seen them.

Chameleon Labs 581 Stereo Bundle | 500 Series Preamps @ ZenPro Audio

[dickiefunk]

Thanks for the reply. I can hear a clear difference between all my pres here!?? I've tried stacks of pres in the past and they also clearly sound different to me.

Whilst I believe you can make very good recordings with some cheap pres, there was a noticeable difference between a DMP3 and my ISA One and even more noticeable with my UA610!

[ivmike]

My two favourite pre-amps are the ART MPA II and the ART MPA Gold; I've swapped the factory tubes/valves in each one for NOS Sylvania and Telefunken. The pre-amps sound lovely; very warm.

You can find the MPA Gold used (usually in the classifieds here) or buy the MPA II brand new at a local shop. In Canada, the MPA II retails for around $300, which is a steal for such a great pre-amp (and having two channels).

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

Thanks for the reply. I can hear a clear difference between all my pres here!?? I've tried stacks of pres in the past and they also clearly sound different to me.

Whilst I believe you can make very good recordings with some cheap pres, there was a noticeable difference between a DMP3 and my ISA One and even more noticeable with my UA610!

Sure, I agree. But there's more than several that deal out their opinion that there's no difference and say it's because they can't hear it, so it must not exist. I know and you know there's a difference and most of the time, money talks.
Just in my low-end world, I hear big differences between my DMP3, Auteur and Summit. However, I'm still working on deciding which one I like best on which source. Recordings can be made with each, but each of them is different obviously and, not surprisingly, I find myself liking the more expensive ones for what I would consider the more critical aspects of the song(s), which is mainly my son's guitar parts right now.

Good luck and let us know what you get.

[changeng]

if I were in your place, I'd go with the Audient Mico - the pres are supposed to be very clean and extra buttons are ALWAYS fun. You already have reservations about the GAP (I got mine through War at Zen Pro with the TT mod, so along with the upgrade, it also meant the unit was given a thorough exam) and the Grace... I have to admit I haven't heard it, but from a large number of reviews I've read, it seems like it's extremely clean wire with gain - and you already have some cleanliness with the ISA (maybe not QUITE as clean, but). The Audient may get you close to the Grace, plus it's stereo and has extra fun stuff that MIGHT be useful.

I gotta say, I've been loving/hating/loving again my Summit 2ba-221. I have had it for four years and have recently been setting it up differently, giving me a WONDERFUL clean sound with heft when I run it just as solid state. If you can find one of those cheap you may be very happy.

But back to YOUR question, the Audient.

[changeng]

Hey mhs2xs - what would you say are the sonic differences between your Auteur and your Summit? Personally I'm looking for a bit of a different color - was thinking of BLA's 312a, but the Auteur might be chewy too.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by changeng

Hey mhs2xs - what would you say are the sonic differences between your Auteur and your Summit? Personally I'm looking for a bit of a different color - was thinking of BLA's 312a, but the Auteur might be chewy too.

The Summit has a bigger sound, even with the stock tube, although I don't turn up that section much. Most of the time i have it off and experiment with the loading. The Auteur is less colored than the Summit, mostly in the top end from what I hear. Not sterile or overly clean, but cleaner and has less gain noise than my DMP3. I've only had the Summit a little while, but that is my impression of it to date. The main mics that I have ran thru the Summit and Auteur for comparisons are E350's, CM-6's and AT4047's...and all on acoustic or electric guitar. I have a bunch of other mic pairs that I intend to test when I can find the time. Hope this helps.

[changeng]

thanks, mhs2xs. if you haven't already, you should really get rid of that Ruby tube in the Summit. My favs have been an old RCA and a VALVO and both were dramatic improvements - the VALVO being the best imo. For vocs, I've been running it with the -20 pad on and dialing out the impedance control - suddenly the metallic sound that lots of people complain about when recording vocals on the Summit was GONE. So now I think of the pad as a 20dB boost instead - great for clean guitars.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by changeng

thanks, mhs2xs. if you haven't already, you should really get rid of that Ruby tube in the Summit. My favs have been an old RCA and a VALVO and both were dramatic improvements - the VALVO being the best imo. For vocs, I've been running it with the -20 pad on and dialing out the impedance control - suddenly the metallic sound that lots of people complain about when recording vocals on the Summit was GONE. So now I think of the pad as a 20dB boost instead - great for clean guitars.

Thanks for the info, so a Valvo 12ax7? I've got an extra NOS GE 6201 12at7wa, wonder how that would do in it....

And do you have a good source? The ones currently on eBay are outrageous to say the least. I may have to stalk and ambush to get one cheap from there.

[changeng]

BOWIE is the man - pm him - I've recently tried to buy tubes on ebay to save a few $$$, but so far the results have been very spotty. GE's are nice, but a little blah to me. Valvo 12AX7 and push the tube - it's a very sparkly tube - the RCA 12AX7 comes pretty close and may be cheaper (and maybe a little more bottom too). anything lower in gain (12at, 12 au) will just make you push the volume knob more, bringing up hiss in the unit.

What has worked brilliantly for me lately as a "set and forget" setting for vocal mic condensers is the preamp knob at 2:00 and the gain knob at 10:00, with the pad in and no impedance boost. Takes all the spittiness out of the preamp and for louder sung notes, it kicks the tube gain in a little, giving it a touch of sparkle - it stays pretty clean otherwise. For ribbons and dynamics I just boost the preamp knob.

Stuart

[changeng]

btw - the tube is NOT easy to remove from the Summit - you have to pull a small board back a little - it's built to do it, but it gives me the willies all the same. WEIRD design.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by changeng

BOWIE is the man - pm him - I've recently tried to buy tubes on ebay to save a few $$$, but so far the results have been very spotty. GE's are nice, but a little blah to me. Valvo 12AX7 and push the tube - it's a very sparkly tube - the RCA 12AX7 comes pretty close and may be cheaper (and maybe a little more bottom too). anything lower in gain (12at, 12 au) will just make you push the volume knob more, bringing up hiss in the unit.

What has worked brilliantly for me lately as a "set and forget" setting for vocal mic condensers is the preamp knob at 2:00 and the gain knob at 10:00, with the pad in and no impedance boost. Takes all the spittiness out of the preamp and for louder sung notes, it kicks the tube gain in a little, giving it a touch of sparkle - it stays pretty clean otherwise. For ribbons and dynamics I just boost the preamp knob.

Stuart

Thanks again. All good to know. I finally found a couple of other places I'd talked to and I'll check with Bowie as well. What mic(s) do you like best with it? I've got those pairs I mentioned, plus pairs of AT4050's, 3035's, a 3060, Oktavamod NT2A's, E200's, an SM7B and a few more. I just need to try em and see when I can actually get a good singer over here. They're not falling out of the sky around here though, so I'm forced to track instruments most of the time. Got a few guys who call themselves singers....you know how that goes..

[changeng]

It works great with tube mics - I have a Genesis that shines on it - especially when pushing the tubes in both units, an Oktavamod mk219 sounds brilliant in it, a Shure KSM32 is fantastic with it. I have a GAP active ribbon mic that also sounds swell on it (with the active electronics it's almost a condenser) - but I had a Fathead at one point that just sat there - blah and hissy because I had to push the output more than I wanted to. Standard dynamics don't do much for me in this preamp unless they're a little more condenser-y, like an old AKG 202 I have. But others , like 57's, 635's, eh... for me, those need a transformer-based preamp.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by changeng

It works great with tube mics - I have a Genesis that shines on it - especially when pushing the tubes in both units, an Oktavamod mk219 sounds brilliant in it, a Shure KSM32 is fantastic with it. I have a GAP active ribbon mic that also sounds swell on it (with the active electronics it's almost a condenser) - but I had a Fathead at one point that just sat there - blah and hissy because I had to push the output more than I wanted to. Standard dynamics don't do much for me in this preamp unless they're a little more condenser-y, like an old AKG 202 I have. But others , like 57's, 635's, eh... for me, those need a transformer-based preamp.

I'll try my CM-6's again without loading them, they got a little bright. Then I'll throw up the VSM-1 and the 3060 and try them too. Those two I got mainly for female vox and have got to figure them out as well, maybe get the wife to wail on em. She's got kind of a timid voice though and I don't know if she'll push them much, we'll see....Thanks again!

[FilmNMusicman]

Well what about the Summit 2AB-221....It really needs more loving on here.

Summit Audio 2BA-221 | Sweetwater.com

[changeng]

just don't use the impedance knob - keep it turned all the way to the left (except for some dynamics)- that was a long-time-coming revelation to me.

[ShadowAMD]

Don't think you will beat the Classic API 312..

[kidvybes]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

I'm wondering if I went for just a preamp around £600 I may get an even better quality pre?

...that pricepoint puts you in striking distance of a used Great River ME-1NV...skip the PRE-73DLX and go for the GR, if Neve-ish is desired...versatile and built like a tank...maybe the most universally liked pre around here (including the high-end crew)...the GR is a "keeper"...