Problem with AT2035 Condensor Microphone sounding muddy!

[oftirado]

Hi, I recently took a trip to guitar center and bought a couple things to upgrade my home "studio" and ended up purchasing the AT2035 after reading so many positive reviews about it. I currently have it setup with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface, which is said to have really good preamps; and it is connected via a monster xlr cable. I set up the mic, put the pop filter about 4in away from the mic and I was off to the races. BUT, as soon as i started playin back my recordings... my vocals sounded REALLY boomy, muddy, bassy, boxed in... you get the point ha. I checked the volume levels to make sure I wasnt clippin and they were all good, I tried a BEVY of mic positions/distances to see if that cleaned em up but to no avail. I'm recording in my room right now, but I dont THINK thats the reason they're sounding so bad, I also tried my closet (that produced NO reverb) and the same thing occured. From what I've read, this mic is supposed to be REALLY good for its price, full and bright, but im not getting that. Could it be cuz i'm doin rap vocals? Could it be the Focusrite interface? or is the mic faulty? or am i just expecting too much? I'm new to this so i dont know what it might be. Im goin to attach some audio examples of what i'm talkin about so yall can get an idea. The first one is just a raw take of random screaming I was just messing around and i had the pop filter off, plus I had the low cut off switch on, and the second is a song i did with some slight eq of the lows but it still sounds a little muddy and i DIDNT have the low cut off on. ANY advice would REALLY help.

[mhs2xs]

This mic is known as pretty flat & uncolored. You get the sound produced from the source. I don't know where you read it was full and bright, but obviously that description is not quite correct. I wouldn't get rid of it just yet, as they normally take eq pretty well. Have you tried boosting the top end a bit? Or did you not like it?

It may be the mic is not for your voice. That's one of the difficult things about mics. People will say they're good, and they may be, but you have to consider the source, both of em.

Audio-Technica AT2035 | RecordingHacks.com

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

This mic is known as pretty flat & uncolored. You get the sound produced from the source. I don't know where you read it was full and bright, but obviously that description is not quite correct. I wouldn't get rid of it just yet, as they normally take eq pretty well. Have you tried boosting the top end a bit? Or did you not like it?

It may be the mic is not for your voice. That's one of the difficult things about mics. People will say they're good, and they may be, but you have to consider the source, both of em.

Audio-Technica AT2035 | RecordingHacks.com

thx for the response.
so would you say the audio samples I provided were flat? not muddy?
and would i just need to add some high end or cut off more low end as well..
do you think there would be a better mic for my purpose? wat about the mxl v67g and the cad m179?

[cyjanopan]

the song is just awesome ! Doesn`t sound muddy for me. Maybe try to add some 2k-3k to make it stronger, but the mic sounds great for it`s price.

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

the song is just awesome ! Doesn`t sound muddy for me. Maybe try to add some 2k-3k to make it stronger, but the mic sounds great for it`s price.

thx!!
but does it really sound good haha??
maybe my ears are deceiving me.. what did you listen to the song with?
and ok, thx for the advice ill try it out and see how it sounds

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by oftirado

thx for the response.
so would you say the audio samples I provided were flat? not muddy?
and would i just need to add some high end or cut off more low end as well..
do you think there would be a better mic for my purpose? wat about the mxl v67g and the cad m179?

Pretty much.. The M179 is a pretty flat mic til around 10k as well and the V67G is even flatter. I would not necessarily go for a 179 on vocals, but own quite a few mics and have choices and some people like them in that capacity. There's a shootout done by kidvybes that has a lot of mics and several sources that may give you a better idea of what to look for. Search for MXL 2003A shootout, or something like that. Or PM him and he can direct you to it. He's most helpful and can give you some great advice because he tracks a lot of vocalists.

Go to recordinghacks.com and look at the response charts on some mics and find some clips of someone with a similar voice if you want to lessen the possibility of getting something that doesn't work. If you can find somebody or somewhere to let you demo a mic real quick, that'll be the best thing obviously.

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Pretty much.. The M179 is a pretty flat mic til around 10k as well and the V67G is even flatter. I would not necessarily go for a 179 on vocals, but own quite a few mics and have choices and some people like them in that capacity. There's a shootout done by kidvybes that has a lot of mics and several sources that may give you a better idea of what to look for. Search for MXL 2003A shootout, or something like that. Or PM him and he can direct you to it. He's most helpful and can give you some great advice because he tracks a lot of vocalists.

Go to recordinghacks.com and look at the response charts on some mics and find some clips of someone with a similar voice if you want to lessen the possibility of getting something that doesn't work. If you can find somebody or somewhere to let you demo a mic real quick, that'll be the best thing obviously.

thx, what do you think about the samples? were they muddy or do they just need some eqing

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by oftirado

thx, what do you think about the samples? were they muddy or do they just need some eqing

Sorry, not on my rig so I can't hear properly. thru earphones it doesn't sound muddy to me. I'd try to eq it and see if it sounds better to you. Also, you can send Mista Min a PM as well. He's a rap/hip hop artist who knows a lot about mics and can offer you good advice on what to look for based on your voice. He's a good dude and can speak to that better than I.

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by mhs2xs

Sorry, not on my rig so I can't hear properly. thru earphones it doesn't sound muddy to me. I'd try to eq it and see if it sounds better to you. Also, you can send Mista Min a PM as well. He's a rap/hip hop artist who knows a lot about mics and can offer you good advice on what to look for based on your voice. He's a good dude and can speak to that better than I.

thx for all the advice man, appreciate it
how do i find these people, im still new to the forum ha

[Colin McCabe]

I own the 2035, and it does get a boxy sound depending in the position of the source. Have you tried standing further away or eq out some 400. I'm getting some really good results with mine but place has been key. If a take isnt done with proper mic technique, it will show it.im using a pre 73 btw.

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by Colin McCabe

I own the 2035, and it does get a boxy sound depending in the position of the source. Have you tried standing further away or eq out some 400. I'm getting some really good results with mine but place has been key. If a take isnt done with proper mic technique, it will show it.im using a pre 73 btw.

i tried standing like a foot away but it picked up a lot of reverb from my room, ill try it in a more insulated part of the house and see if it works better thx for the input!!

[cyjanopan]

Originally Posted by oftirado

thx!!
but does it really sound good haha??
maybe my ears are deceiving me.. what did you listen to the song with?
and ok, thx for the advice ill try it out and see how it sounds

It`s not perfect, but very good, maybe a little too sibilant but nothing that can`t be fixed. I listened on Focal CMS40.

[mhs2xs]

Originally Posted by oftirado

thx for all the advice man, appreciate it
how do i find these people, im still new to the forum ha

You're welcome. Personally, I think you can make that mic work, but I don't know what you're looking for. While a 2035 can get you into the box, it won't make you sound like something you're not though.

You can go to your User CP and find Send Private Message and type their handles in the box. Or, search for some of the Stellar CM-6 threads, they're both commenting in there.

[dkelley]

eq eq eq. any of these neutral LDC mics (2035, m179, 2003A and so on) aren't eq'd for vocals, they're just neutral. Vocals typically do well with one or 2 presence peaks at different frequencies. This is one thing that makes the pricey vocal recording mics so desirable... it's hard to find a cheap mic that does this (the best cheap vocal mic is the blue spark IMHO, but it's a way from being as vocal specific as the big boys of course as it's only $200 brand new).

I suggest going onto the blue mics website and looking at specs (with the frequency response plots) of their vocal mics like the blue kiwi for example. then try to mimick that eq on your recording and see how it sounds.

it's a great starting point at least and works for me, although there's a lot more complexity to the balance of the mic than that of course due to proximity effect and polar pattern and directivity and how it's aimed when you record and so on.

cheers
Don

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Originally Posted by cyjanopan

the song is just awesome ! Doesn`t sound muddy for me. Maybe try to add some 2k-3k to make it stronger, but the mic sounds great for it`s price.

You really think it needs this?

Ouch...

Not muddy, lotsa (too much top) in the wrong area.

I think it's missing a little support around 240-250 maybe...don't know. Not hearing the "boxy" 350 or 400 thing at all.

That's what I hear. Good performance though.

Mix is clipping a tiny bit here. Intersample peaks?

john

[baatjet]

Oftirado,

considering you were using a ~$150 mic... this is pretty good. Not sure what you were expecting.
I use the 2035 for VO because it's fairly flat and neutral (and small), which is exactly what I was after. It replaced a ~$600 Rode NTK in my studio.

IMHO the 2035 is one of the best mics in this price range, but maybe not for rap - a Rode NT1-a may've been a better choice, but - as others have already said - you can EQ your way to a more "in-your-face" sound, if that's what you want. But boxy, it is certainly not.

Loved the track, btw... good work!

[oftirado]

thx for all the positive feedback on the song! appreciate it alot! really blew my throat out haha

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

You really think it needs this?

Ouch...

Not muddy, lotsa (too much top) in the wrong area.

I think it's missing a little support around 240-250 maybe...don't know. Not hearing the "boxy" 350 or 400 thing at all.

That's what I hear. Good performance though.

Mix is clipping a tiny bit here. Intersample peaks?

john

yea, it clipped in some areas due to bad volume levels... thx for the response. ill add some eq to the range you mentioned and see wat it sounds like

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by dkelley

eq eq eq. any of these neutral LDC mics (2035, m179, 2003A and so on) aren't eq'd for vocals, they're just neutral. Vocals typically do well with one or 2 presence peaks at different frequencies. This is one thing that makes the pricey vocal recording mics so desirable... it's hard to find a cheap mic that does this (the best cheap vocal mic is the blue spark IMHO, but it's a way from being as vocal specific as the big boys of course as it's only $200 brand new).

I suggest going onto the blue mics website and looking at specs (with the frequency response plots) of their vocal mics like the blue kiwi for example. then try to mimick that eq on your recording and see how it sounds.

it's a great starting point at least and works for me, although there's a lot more complexity to the balance of the mic than that of course due to proximity effect and polar pattern and directivity and how it's aimed when you record and so on.

cheers
Don

thx for the advice, never checked into the blue mics, prolly should have ha
but ill definetely look at their eq charts! im still new to this so I might not be doin this mic justice with post-EQin

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by baatjet

Oftirado,

considering you were using a ~$150 mic... this is pretty good. Not sure what you were expecting.
I use the 2035 for VO because it's fairly flat and neutral (and small), which is exactly what I was after. It replaced a ~$600 Rode NTK in my studio.

IMHO the 2035 is one of the best mics in this price range, but maybe not for rap - a Rode NT1-a may've been a better choice, but - as others have already said - you can EQ your way to a more "in-your-face" sound, if that's what you want. But boxy, it is certainly not.

Loved the track, btw... good work!

yea, i heard the rode nt1a was a lil bright which kind of drew me away, but i didnt realize it was better for these type of vocals bcuz of that. I can still return this mic though so thx for the tip!

[oftirado]

wat do yall think about the mxl v67g for these type of vocals?

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Can't sleep...head cold here.

I think what you are getting is ok.

Are you compressing the mix a lot?
Multiband?

What I notice the most, is a lot of "competition" for real estate in the vocal range.

This leads to having to put more "cut" on the vox track, and IMHO, you will not find any mic that will sit comfortably in the mix until you address this.

I feel like the vox track you have right now, is probably workable, but I haven't heard it flat--- ie not eq'd. It ain't that bad. Are there better mics? Of course.

There's always something "better" when working on a budget. But it's not going to transform your song into something it's not. Do you need to spend the money? Not IMHO at this point. Just sayin'.

The problem here (to me), seems to be more of a "get everything louder than everything else" issue more than anything.

Listen to some commercial stuff in the same genre. Notice how much space is there? The vocals have all kinds of room to take center stage.

There is a lot in the "presence" range going on in your mix, which is fine, but if you jack all this up, then add compression (particularly multi band), something's gotta give.

Everything can't be huge and in your face, as much as I know it would be fantastic if it could sometimes. It just can't.

Trying thinning some stuff out up there, so you don't have to beat your vocals to death to get them to cut. It's just a little busy in that area is all.

For example, if you have something up there in that range...try panning it off to one side some. If you have eq boosted on it, flatten it out etc.

Leave some space up the middle.

Good song, good idea, good performance. Halfway decent mix even.

Just my $00.02

Good luck,
John

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

Can't sleep...head cold here.

I think what you are getting is ok.

Are you compressing the mix a lot?
Multiband?

What I notice the most, is a lot of "competition" for real estate in the vocal range.

This leads to having to put more "cut" on the vox track, and IMHO, you will not find any mic that will sit comfortably in the mix until you address this.

I feel like the vox track you have right now, is probably workable, but I haven't heard it flat--- ie not eq'd. It ain't that bad. Are there better mics? Of course.

There's always something "better" when working on a budget. But it's not going to transform your song into something it's not. Do you need to spend the money? Not IMHO at this point. Just sayin'.

The problem here (to me), seems to be more of a "get everything louder than everything else" issue more than anything.

Listen to some commercial stuff in the same genre. Notice how much space is there? The vocals have all kinds of room to take center stage.

There is a lot in the "presence" range going on in your mix, which is fine, but if you jack all this up, then add compression (particularly multi band), something's gotta give.

Everything can't be huge and in your face, as much as I know it would be fantastic if it could sometimes. It just can't.

Trying thinning some stuff out up there, so you don't have to beat your vocals to death to get them to cut. It's just a little busy in that area is all.

For example, if you have something up there in that range...try panning it off to one side some. If you have eq boosted on it, flatten it out etc.

Leave some space up the middle.

Good song, good idea, good performance. Halfway decent mix even.

Just my $00.02

Good luck,
John

thank you! real thorough description bro appreciate it, i forgot to mention that this isnt my beat, i didnt create it so there's not really much i can do in terms of goin back and EQin specific things, but ill try to eq the whole thing a lil, maybe take off some high end on the claps and things like that so my vocals can stand out more... thx again!

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

Yeah, no problem. That may be difficult working with the whole mix, but good luck.

j

[Gnu]

In my experience, I'd hardly call the 2035 either "muddy" or "neutral". It has a bit of that Chinese high-end and can be very brittle and sibilant on vocals if you're not careful. I track it through an outboard EQ and a touch of warmth compression before I even think about sitting it in a mix. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a rap vocal.

However, it's workable, it's cheap, and I've had some surprisingly wonderful results with it in front of an acoustic guitar.

[baatjet]

Originally Posted by Gnu

It has a bit of that Chinese high-end and can be very brittle and sibilant on vocals if you're not careful...

Hmm, not my experience at all.

Originally Posted by Gnu

It certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a rap vocal.

What would then?

[tomwatson]

As you've read already, it's ok for the price and the preamp you're using. The focusrite preamps are pretty flat sounding so don't expect any color from them. The muddy sound could be due to the acoustics of your room. Have you made any DIY panels or anything? Checkout the acoustics section of the forum if you haven't.

[firefly419]

First of all... nice track.

Lead vocal doesn't sound boomy on my hr-824's. I would say it could use a nice compressor on it to make it a little fatter so it sits more snug in the mix, maybe run in parallel so the top end stays in tact and doesn't lose it's punch. Keep it up!

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

From what others are saying which is contrary to what you are saying about the sound that you are getting, your entire setup is suspect. Boxiness and generally crappy sounds happen with any mic that is too close to boundaries like walls and ceilings, or is in the middle of a room (getting equal loudness reflections from multiple sources canceling at the diaphragm...) Next, if your monitors sound boxy and others don't hear that boxiness, you may need to change the position of your monitors, listening place, or maybe everyone else is screwed up, not you. You might try shifting some things around and see if you can hear a change. Whatever seems most logical. Oh, it's 2012, come out of the closet. Nothing sounds good in there.

[oftirado]

Originally Posted by tomwatson

As you've read already, it's ok for the price and the preamp you're using. The focusrite preamps are pretty flat sounding so don't expect any color from them. The muddy sound could be due to the acoustics of your room. Have you made any DIY panels or anything? Checkout the acoustics section of the forum if you haven't.

thx for the reply, im actually in the process of gathering all the accessories needed for some DIY acoustic panels.. hopefully that'll help a lot